'93 Suns vs '07 Suns

[YFZblu]

The 93 Suns would beat the life out of the 07 and 10 teams. I am suprised this conversation lasted this long. If they were in a playoff series against either, it wouldn't last longer than five games. Take it from someone who was old enough to enjoy watching all of them at their best, that 93 team would have won playing with practice court effort against both of the others.

No, they wouldn't. We saw what happened with "practice court effort" and they almost lost to the 39 win / 8th seeded Lakers. You're kidding yourself if you think this is a blowout either way.

Sure, the Suns were pushed to the limit by the Lakers that season, but you failed to mention that KJ missed game 1. In a best of five series, it matters:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/box ... 00PHO.html

IMO, the 1993 team would obliterate any of the previous Nash-led Suns on the boards more than anything, and featured enough offensive versatility to fend them off as well in that regard. The 1993 Phoenix Suns were a top 10 defense and featured the most efficient offense in the NBA that season. Charles was great at directing traffic when the double-team came, and KJ could get into the lane at any moment.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHO/1993.html

Don't get me wrong, I love these Nash-led teams. But IMO, that 1993 team was special. I'll never forget the fourth quarter stand they took against Chicago during game 6 of the 1993 NBA Finals. IIRC, the Bulls only had about 12 points in the fourth and were the subject of three or more shot clock violations. Of course, Phoenix was up four points with just over 40 seconds to play when MJ took the ball coast-to-coast for an uncontested layup (embarrassing, IMO) and on the final Bulls possession Barkley over-played a pass which eventually led to the Paxson three. Of course, I can't honestly say that game was blown on two plays out of a 48 minute game, but they were critical. There should have been a 7th game, IMO.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/box ... 00PHO.html

Anyway, if they're playing with 1993 rules I don't see Nash's Suns winning many games. Regardless, I don't think the PG spot will be the issue for Phoenix--It could very well come down to Amar'e Stoudemire failing to excel at the less glamorous aspects of basketball, such as defense (on the ball and off), effective passing and rebounding.

[Frank Lee]

You '93-ers are making a strong case.... I am convinced.

How do you think they'd match up against the 83 squad ? Seems like a fairer fight.

DJ
Walter Davis
Larry Nance
Mo Lucas
Alvin Adams

James Edwards
Alvin Scott
Johnny High
Kyle Macy
Jeff Cook

[DatWasNashty]

The 93 Suns would beat the life out of the 07 and 10 teams. I am suprised this conversation lasted this long. If they were in a playoff series against either, it wouldn't last longer than five games. Take it from someone who was old enough to enjoy watching all of them at their best, that 93 team would have won playing with practice court effort against both of the others.

No, they wouldn't. We saw what happened with "practice court effort" and they almost lost to the 39 win / 8th seeded Lakers. You're kidding yourself if you think this is a blowout either way.

Sure, the Suns were pushed to the limit by the Lakers that season, but you failed to mention that KJ missed game 1. In a best of five series, it matters:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/box ... 00PHO.html

IMO, the 1993 team would obliterate any of the previous Nash-led Suns on the boards more than anything, and featured enough offensive versatility to fend them off as well in that regard. The 1993 Phoenix Suns were a top 10 defense and featured the most efficient offense in the NBA that season. Charles was great at directing traffic when the double-team came, and KJ could get into the lane at any moment.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHO/1993.html

Don't get me wrong, I love these Nash-led teams. But IMO, that 1993 team was special. I'll never forget the fourth quarter stand they took against Chicago during game 6 of the 1993 NBA Finals. IIRC, the Bulls only had about 12 points in the fourth and were the subject of three or more shot clock violations. Of course, Phoenix was up four points with just over 40 seconds to play when MJ took the ball coast-to-coast for an uncontested layup (embarrassing, IMO) and on the final Bulls possession Barkley over-played a pass which eventually led to the Paxson three. Of course, I can't honestly say that game was blown on two plays out of a 48 minute game, but they were critical. There should have been a 7th game, IMO.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/box ... 00PHO.html

Anyway, if they're playing with 1993 rules I don't see Nash's Suns winning many games. Regardless, I don't think the PG spot will be the issue for Phoenix--It could very well come down to Amar'e Stoudemire failing to excel at the less glamorous aspects of basketball, such as defense (on the ball and off), effective passing and rebounding.

I know KJ missed game 1 but you missed the point. If these guys get lazy, don't get back in transition etc they're going to be in trouble. That's all I was trying to say. These guys aren't winning the series with practice court effort. Thunder Dan commented on how the team was a bit rusty coming in to the series due to a lack of practice and they celebrated a bit too much after securing HCA throughout the playoffs. And even game 5 with everyone healthy, we were damn close to being eliminated. Majerle came up big with a clutch pull up J to tie the game and we actually got lucky on a play that nobody brings up. The shot clock was running down, someone threw up a wild shot but Barkley got the putback and cut the lead down to 2 iirc. Replays showed that shot shouldn't have counted since the clock had expired when the ball was in Chuck's hands. Anyway, you're right. KJ was instrumental in the series with his defense on Threatt. Threatt blew up in game 1 but was fairly limited throughout the series thanks to KJ's D.

[DatWasNashty]

The irony is, what made KJ so dynamic is what limited his career. While what makes Nash such a poor defender is essentially what has prolonged his career.

KJ's acceleration was close to the best I've ever seen. But you can't go from zero to full speed so quickly for such a long period of time without your muscles and joints suffering.

Nash on the other hand will never be a good defender because his acceleration is absolutely terrible but in turn because he doesn't use that as a primary (or even secondary) weapon he has managed to keep going well into his 30's. People always talk about "speed" but to me that is broken down into "acceleration" and "top speed". While Nash has a pretty good top speed, his acceleration is really poor. KJ red-lined on both and unfortunately his motor was bound to burn out due to that.

Anyway this argument has dwelled on the point guards for way too long. Nash would never guard KJ, it would be Marion. My question is, who the heck guards Barkley? And are we playing 93 rules or 2010 rules?

Seriously tho, Barkley would tear anyone and everyone apart on our team. He would completely abuse Amare with such regularity that it would be like viewing a car-wreck. Unlike Marion on KJ there really isn't anyone who could guard Barkley ... not even close. He would abuse them on the boards and back down anyone. If you put the biggest guy you had on him it would be PnR and Barkley toying with them at the 3pt line when he got bored.

Not to say Amare wouldn't have his way with Mark West (whom I don't rate anywhere near as much as some on here). He certainly would. But he wasn't exactly un-guardable where as Barkley in his prime was pretty damn close.

I would give it to 93 on a 4-2 series win. I think the 2000's crew would win 2 just by out-running them. The 93 crew really lacked some transition defenders. Barkley would really only run back if he was really peeved or the game was on the line. West, Miller and by that age Chambers were never gonna get back all too quickly. Ceballos/Dumas would run like heck to get a break-away dunk but up the other end they could both be a little lazy.

Good post. KJ was lightning quick in the open court. Guys had to give him a good amount of space to deny penetration and he'd still blow by them. I do think Nash would guard KJ unless Ainge is in the game. Nash on Ainge won't be much of a mismatch. But, if you have Marion guarding KJ, Nash is basically screwed cause Majerle has a huge size advantage and can take him in the post and Dumas / Ceballos will abuse him as well. It's basically picking your poison for the '07 team.

I talked about the rules in the OP. '93 rules, the '93 Suns would win in 5 or 6 since they were built for that era. Decent perimeter defenders with a shot blocker and a solid help defender in Miller backing them up. Guys would be physical and try to throw the '07 team off their game. One thing they would suffer in is defending the Nash / Amare PnR since KJ would have some trouble fighting through picks and there's no way Miller (legit 330 lbs) can keep up with Amare. West would do a better job but he won't stop him either. '93 team would have to collapse and make the 3 pt shooters beat them and they wouldn't be a great idea since the '07 team shot 40% from deep that year. The '07 team can't guard the PnR either. KJ and Barkley / Chambers would be a deadly combo and both those guys had range up till 18 feet or so. Amare definitely isn't the brightest guy out there so he'll struggle a bit defensively. Nonetheless, depth and rebounding would give them the edge under '93 rules. Nobody would be able to guard Barkley and KJ and they'd pick apart the double and triple teams. And I'm sure intimidation plays a factor too.

'07 rules, the '07 team will definitely benefit from the ability to play a 2-3 zone. They'd be able to pack the paint and that would reduce a bit of KJ's penetration and make him take the mid range J which he was pretty good at. Majerle wouldn't suffer since he was a great 3 pt shooter. But, Dumas and Ceballos never had much range till deep. They would have to play Ainge (3 pt threat) a lot more and he's likely to get abused on D. Zone can be picked apart cause it leaves major gaps but I'm not sure how the '93 team deals with it. It can definitely throw teams off their game like it was evident in games 3 and 4 of the Laker series. I think Ceballos would do well since he was good at moving off ball and finding ways to score. We never ran much plays for him, though. More of a 2 man game between Chuck and KJ. Chuck will also have various defenders (Thomas, Diaw, Marion etc) floating around to contest his shot and make him change his style. He definitely had a great mid range game but I don't think he'd be as effective as he was in '93. This will be a close series IMO and will come down to a game 7. In the OP, I picked the '07 team to come out (under newer rules) but some of you guys have made me change my mind.