Big Trade supposedly going down

[pacers33]

Tell me guys, how's Collison? I heard he's a very quick versatile point guard that has both great court vision and passing ability?

He can shoot. He can create a mid-range jumper. He can distribute. He is a bit turnover prone, but so are most rookie PG's. That will probably iron itself out with more experience. He's a threat because he can be both a scoring threat and a playmaking threat, and he's not horrible defensively. He's a quick guard and his speed will show if Indy plays more uptempo.

Sounds great.

[PELICANSFAN]

Collison's weakness can be his vision and decision making. He turns the ball over too much. However, I think that will improve with experience.

I am not at all impressed with this trade or Ariza. We wasted our most marketable trading piece by trading for an average to below average starter.

[Sweens]

[Luigi]

Hey Hornets fans. I haven't followed your rotation recently.

What do you expect to see for a depth chart with minutes at each position with the new roster?

[gold_leader64]

Hey Hornets fans. I haven't followed your rotation recently.

What do you expect to see for a depth chart with minutes at each position with the new roster?

Well, we don't know what the roster will look like come training camp. They very well may send Thornton and West for Vince f**king Carter.

[lapassione]

I'm afraid Ariza is a role player and giving up an already good PG in Collison for Ariza has to be one of the most loopsided trades.
Here's Ariza's past 3 years:
Orlando traded him to Lakers for almost nothing (Cook & Dooling- both let go or traded end of season)
After one season, Lakers didnt resign him, let him walk for nothing.
After one season, Rockets traded him as a 'salary dump'.
Now its Hornet's turn to try him out.

But unlike the first 3 teams mentioned, Hornets dont get Ariza for nothing, a hefty price...
good luck.

[MGW33]

Don't forget the Knicks traded him for Steve Francis.......................

[lapassione]

maybe 5th time lucky then

[countrybama24]

Awful trade. Sure, it fills a need (athletic wing). You might be slightly better this year because the team is more balanced, but AWFUL AWFUL AWFUL trade value wise.

The people on the pacers board were having wet dreams about collison all offseason, and 0% of them thought he could be had for troy murphy alone. Collison is probably a top 10 PG in a league stacked at the position. That article defending the trade just says it makes on court basketball sense, but you can't only trade in terms of that.

Collison was the only truly valuable asset this team had. You won't have any top 10 draft picks so long as paul plays (and you don't get incredibly lucky, a la 07-08 bulls), and you can't sign any big free agents because (1) you don't have the room, and if you create the room, you have to trade away good players which will just make paul even more likely to leave and (2) you won't be the most competitive bidder for any free agent (just ask knicks / nets / clippers and bulls).

You don't burn your best shot on getting that 2nd all-star to play with paul (west doesn't count) on the 5th option or a role player. You just don't. In 5 years, collison will be a borderline all-star, and ariza will be averaging 16/6/4 on on 45% / 33% (3pt).

Here's a better idea --- trade collison / posey for paul george and courney lee (the pacers ship out murphy). You get 2 young athletic wings, and I'm willing to bet the pacers would have given up george (unproven rookie) and murphy (not in their future plans) for collison, a proven stud PG who fills the teams biggest need.

[lapassione]

Marco was a good trade though.. He's a good ball handler and shooter.

[countrybama24]

True, I like the bellinelli trade. Just collison.... ugh. I'm a Jazz fan, but even I feel bad for you guys.

[cavsfan_osiris]

Ariza should benefit greatly by playing with CP3, but the Hornets gave up too much.

[Atmanne]

The reality is that Paul would only stay with the hornets if they somehow become contenders within 2 years. I think we all understand that that is a pipedream that isn't going to happen. We also know that if that is the goal of the front office, then they are incompetent because Ariza isn't going to make them contenders. So, when Paul leaves, what will the team have? What they had was a potential 20/10 PG (averaged 19/9 as a starter) to help that transition.

Also, Collison could have been played with CP in the backcourt to help share the load. I don't agree that the best decision for the team in the long run is to dump him for a wing upgrade, especially when that "upgrade" is yet another patch-job with a role player.

Yeah, and that's the point: he's not going to make them contenders. What he will do is improve their wing defense and he will shoot a ton of 3's. But he's not going to make this team so good that Paul will change his mind because the team is contending.

So they gave away a future all star calibre PG for a role player, and when Paul leaves they will have NO franchise player, no point guard, and will probably be looking to move Ariza's deal ala Posey right now. They have done nothing but set themselves up for failure.

It doesn't make them instant contenders, but it's safe to assume they have more moves to make before Paul's contract expires. IMO, this makes them a 50+ win team (assuming health) and that's a pretty good start.

This is a good stat from an even-handed breakdown of the trade: http://www.atthehive.com/2010/8/11/1618 ... #storyjump

Perhaps most importantly, the Hornets get their new perimeter stopper. According to Basketball Prospectus, Ariza limited opposing players to 87.8% of their average game-to-game production last year over 1067 defensive possessions. As a point of comparison, James Posey allowed opponents 22.3% more production than average, over 666 defensive possessions. Ariza will certainly be guarding the other team's best player every night.

It's a gamble, but all this hyperbole about how awful the trade is and Demps is already the worst GM in the league is mind-boggling to me.

[NO-KG-AI]

Awful trade. Sure, it fills a need (athletic wing). You might be slightly better this year because the team is more balanced, but AWFUL AWFUL AWFUL trade value wise.

The people on the pacers board were having wet dreams about collison all offseason, and 0% of them thought he could be had for troy murphy alone. Collison is probably a top 10 PG in a league stacked at the position. That article defending the trade just says it makes on court basketball sense, but you can't only trade in terms of that.

Collison was the only truly valuable asset this team had. You won't have any top 10 draft picks so long as paul plays (and you don't get incredibly lucky, a la 07-08 bulls), and you can't sign any big free agents because (1) you don't have the room, and if you create the room, you have to trade away good players which will just make paul even more likely to leave and (2) you won't be the most competitive bidder for any free agent (just ask knicks / nets / clippers and bulls).

You don't burn your best shot on getting that 2nd all-star to play with paul (west doesn't count) on the 5th option or a role player. You just don't. In 5 years, collison will be a borderline all-star, and ariza will be averaging 16/6/4 on on 45% / 33% (3pt).

Here's a better idea --- trade collison / posey for paul george and courney lee (the pacers ship out murphy). You get 2 young athletic wings, and I'm willing to bet the pacers would have given up george (unproven rookie) and murphy (not in their future plans) for collison, a proven stud PG who fills the teams biggest need.

1) Please tell us what productive player we could have gotten while dumping Posey. Indy wasn't taking Posey and giving up young contracts, or this deal would have been done a long time ago.

2) We still have 20 million in expiring deals next year, so we'll be going into next offseason wit about 14 million in capspace, over 20 million if West opts out.

3) When Paul's contract is up, we have Okafor and Ariza on the books, and enough to sign Paul, another max player, and some small pieces.

[gold_leader64]

The reality is that Paul would only stay with the hornets if they somehow become contenders within 2 years. I think we all understand that that is a pipedream that isn't going to happen. We also know that if that is the goal of the front office, then they are incompetent because Ariza isn't going to make them contenders. So, when Paul leaves, what will the team have? What they had was a potential 20/10 PG (averaged 19/9 as a starter) to help that transition.

Also, Collison could have been played with CP in the backcourt to help share the load. I don't agree that the best decision for the team in the long run is to dump him for a wing upgrade, especially when that "upgrade" is yet another patch-job with a role player.

Yeah, and that's the point: he's not going to make them contenders. What he will do is improve their wing defense and he will shoot a ton of 3's. But he's not going to make this team so good that Paul will change his mind because the team is contending.

So they gave away a future all star calibre PG for a role player, and when Paul leaves they will have NO franchise player, no point guard, and will probably be looking to move Ariza's deal ala Posey right now. They have done nothing but set themselves up for failure.

It doesn't make them instant contenders, but it's safe to assume they have more moves to make before Paul's contract expires. IMO, this makes them a 50+ win team (assuming health) and that's a pretty good start.

This is a good stat from an even-handed breakdown of the trade: http://www.atthehive.com/2010/8/11/1618 ... #storyjump

Perhaps most importantly, the Hornets get their new perimeter stopper. According to Basketball Prospectus, Ariza limited opposing players to 87.8% of their average game-to-game production last year over 1067 defensive possessions. As a point of comparison, James Posey allowed opponents 22.3% more production than average, over 666 defensive possessions. Ariza will certainly be guarding the other team's best player every night.

It's a gamble, but all this hyperbole about how awful the trade is and Demps is already the worst GM in the league is mind-boggling to me.

Again, ANY forward is a better defensive stopper than Peja. Hell, their draft picks could have stepped in a played better defense. Scott's refusal to sit Peja is one huge reason why the Nuggets were able to pound the hornets. They didn't need to make this deal to improve their wing defense.

And a bigger need is for West to get off his ass and play more in the post and rebound. The wing isn't the only problem. The hornets post defense has struggled because of West, because no matter how good the perimeter defense is, there will always be times when the PF needs to rotate for help, and West is not only horrible in that area, but he also has no explosive leaping ability so even if he did have the lateral quickness, he couldn't contest. West is a huge defensive liability.

I'm all for making improvements for the team to be better, but now is not the time to ship off superior talent and potential in order for a short term solution. Those times are for teams that are already contending and need the boost to win it all, not for teams trying to build a playoff team.

[lordjeff05]

I really don't get some of these comments. I understand if you think we could have gotten more for Collison. So did I. But it makes no sense to keep him if you intend on keeping CP. You can't just sit on your best trade asset while trying to appease your superstar. If we wanted to keep Collison then we should have just traded CP. If my options are keeping cp and getting ariza or trading collison, then guess what, I trade collison.

Even if the hornets weren't the obvious winners, this trade is by no means the boneheaded move people are characterizing it as. We are taking a gamble and it is worth it to see if that gamble will work out.

We are a better team with Ariza playing 35 minutes a game then we are with Collison playing 20 minutes a gmae.

[Marvel]

I just feel you guys could've gotten more for Collison,by adding depth.DC will be a top 10 point in the league.Still,if the Hornets can stay healthy they'll make the playoffs for sure.

[batmana]

Orlando traded him to Lakers for almost nothing (Cook & Dooling- both let go or traded end of season)

good luck.

It was actually Cook & Mo Evans, Dooling was never a Laker.

Ariza definitely has been improving ever since but getting only him while giving up Collison doesn't make your team better IMO. Right now you have a starting 5 and next to nothing coming off the bench. And if CP3 misses even one game, you're gonna know about it. And don't even hope Belinelli can back him up, Belinelli plays as a 2 guard and can't create for anybody but his own chucking self. I guess Marcus Thornton is your only hope now that Chris Paul looks like a goner...

[lordjeff05]

Collison was great last year but let's be honest, wouldn't you rather 35 minutes of ariza then 20 minutes of collison? It seems like most arguments are that now we don't have a pg if/when chris paul leaves. But if that is the thinking then you should just trade paul now. But the hornets don't want to do that, so they make a trade that makes them a better team.

More than anything we needed wing help, and we got it. Not to mention Collison did not play well starting on the bench, and beginning the season that way would have killed his trade value.

I would have preferred to include peja for t.j. and rush but that didn't happen. As it is, it's still a good trade.

In an ideal world we could have gotten more, but what wings were available? Philly isn't trading Iggy for point guard help. Also, I think it was important to get a veteran who has been in the league a while. And we convert Posey's contract ot something of value. It's a good movey, not all star but good.

Now we can offer L.A. meka plus two picks at the deadline for kaman, and still offer Horford the max during next year's free agency. Even without Kaman, that's a squad.

[Amaresgarden]

For anyone doubting Ariza trust me you will end up appreciating him on your team as the season goes, with cp3 being able to create plays for him hes gonna do great in your system