I bet Zeke pushed for Jennings....

[hobojoe2131]

I dont want players who shoot .371 from the field and commit turnovers like they're going out of style.

I know what you're trying to say but you really should look at Felton's rookie year. I like Felton but his numbers are very much comparable to Jennings at that stage of their careers. The FG% for Jennings is a bit skewed because he took nearly 5 a game. <just saying>

The fact that he took 5 3's per game isn't a good thing though. It just shows that he has poor shot selection and can't attack the rim. Same thing applies for Gallo. His FG% was down because he chucked 3's and couldnt attack the rim. The difference is Gallo is a smart player while Jennings is a player who just looks for the flashy and spectacular, and Gallo became more and more aggressive while the season went on while Jennings just continued to bomb away from deep.

In fact, I just looked it up, and Jennings shot the most 3's per game in the last 2 months of the season.

[StutterStep]

I dont want players who shoot .371 from the field and commit turnovers like they're going out of style.

I know what you're trying to say but you really should look at Felton's rookie year. I like Felton but his numbers are very much comparable to Jennings at that stage of their careers. The FG% for Jennings is a bit skewed because he took nearly 5 a game. <just saying>

The fact that he took 5 3's per game isn't a good thing though. It just shows that he has poor shot selection and can't attack the rim.

STOP.

I think you're talking about a different player.

He took a lot of 3pters, partly due to shot selection but also because after he scored the double-nickel (55 pts vs GSW), teams started throwing the SG at him and a zone to back them up. Teams did this because the Bucks lacked outside shooting with Redd not being back and then ineffective.

Getting to the rim? Are you serious? Did you watch the Bucks? Jennings got to the rim at will |#pause|... His problem was that he relied on his floater too much. But even with that most of his points were on 3pters and layups. His weakness is that he has to improve his mid-range jumper.

I really think you're talking about a different player.

[JohnStarksTheDunk]

Sorry, Stutter, I should have clarified. I meant in terms of a rebuild, and it's clear you meant in terms of pure talent. Had Isiah done nothing, we would have had a ton of salary coming off the cap that first off-season, and more the following one, and all of our future picks.

You make a good point about Randolph and Crawford, but keep in mind that neither of those guys was ever considered a terrible player -- they were just overpaid. In that regard, I would compare them to the contracts of H20 (who did get injured, which obviously wasn't Isiah's fault) and KVH. Solid players, who just weren't as good as their contracts paid them.

Where Isiah's roster is worse than Layden's is in the Eddy Curry, Jerome James, Jared Jeffries, and Quentin Richardson regard. Two of those players are utterly useless and the other two aren't really any more serviceable than Shandon Anderson or Howard Eisley, whom Isiah inherited.

Jeffries and QRich are still valued. Hated Curr/James acquisitions so no argument. Plus, I'm not debating that Isiah did a good job as a GM. I'm debating whether the roster he left was worse than what he inherited.

Shandon still got playing time with Miami, as did Eisley with Phoenix and Utah. I perhaps exaggerated a bit though, because Q and JJ are somewhat better than Shandon and Eisley were in '04. Also, regarding Curry and James, I'm not even talking about the transactions that brought them here (I think we agree those were terrible). Both players had bad contracts and were on the team when Walsh took over -- that's all I'm saying. Isiah did not inherit a Curry or Jerome, at least not on the same level.

Lampje, Sweetney, Eisley, Ward --- a bunch of players who never played any significant minutes for any team once Isiah traded them. I can't say that about any of the guys Zeke traded or drafted. In the case of draft picks, we're talking Balkman/Mardy -- guys who don't make much money and never got enough playing time.

And the only one of those guys that was a problem for the cap was Eisley. Ward was expiring, and Lampe and Sweetney were draft picks who didn't make much money (like Balkman and Mardy).

Again, you are talking mostly just about talent here. The team Walsh inherited most certainly had more talented players than the one Isiah took over. Keep in mind that that group of talented guys only won 23 games the season before Walsh arrived, so it's not just about a player's ability, and certainly when judging a situation from a GM's perspective, talent shouldn't be the only consideration.

[stuporman]

Of course Jennings, clearly one of the best young PGs in the Universe, has be to be overrated and crazy, all because Walsh whiffed on him.

He shoots a bad percentage? Yeah, and so does Ray Felton for 3 million more a year.

Man, this board is gonna be some pure hypocritical COMEDY this season, as they Knicks KEEP losing, Jennings AND LOPEZ keep getting better and Houstons takes the Knicks top 5 pick in June.

There will be nothing but excuses and bizarre new ways of blaming Isiah.

Why are you here?

I'm here to keep history from being re-written. Layden has been let off the hook Pre-Isiah and I'll be damned if Walsh is gonna be let off the hook Post-Isiah, especially considering he was in a perfectly ideal position to steer the Knicks in the right direction, and all he's done is draft poorly and over pay Amare and Felt-on...and trade Jeffries and try to get him back.

And everybody wants to keep pretending he's solving all the problems...because some contracts expired. Um, you didn't have to pay those guys, so why get all up in arms about it. WORRY ABOUT GETTING SOME GOOD PLAYERS AND BUILDING A TEAM!

Walsh is failing and the RECORD will reflect that.

So you don't want anyone to rewrite history... or should I say anyone else rewrite history. You prefer to do it yourself to support your opinion.

No draft record is perfect He may have taken a big who was average, but he took a really good guard late in the first round. Gallo has shown to be at least the sixth best in his class if not better. The two second rounders appear to be one dud and one steal. He's been average, not poor. Even the master drafter Isiah screwed up. Took Balkman, who I loved after he was drafted, over Rondo. Took Frye, who I never really loved, over um...anyone but mostly Bynum, who isn't any great superstar but is better then Frye...well, most anyone is. Took Mardy.......just took him, that should be enough reason to doubt his perfect skills...lol.


He might have overpaid Amar'e but it wasn't in dollars cause the Suns offered him the same contract. All Walsh did was guarantee the final two years where the Suns didn't want to. You think after the Diva3 went to south beach that if Amar'e hadn't committed to the Knicks he wouldn't have gotten a contract at least as much as he got if not more from someone else? Delusional is what you would be if you think that.

Felton overpaid, too? You mean the starting caliber PG, the best one on the FA market, a durable one who hasn't missed more than 10 games in his career. One who routinely averaged 14-7 in a slow system yet still able to get his teamto the playoffs last year not even playing his best suited style. One who improved his shooting %s and plays defense while being completely able to run D's fast paced offense......for an 'undervalued' for starting PG two year contract. That 'overpaid' Felton?

Trade Jefferies then want him back? You're a rumor monger and a media whore. They played you like a ghetto hooker turning tricks for packages of ding dongs. LOL!

Finally all he did was let contracts expire? You mean the contracts of Zach Randolph, Jamal Crawford and Jared Jefferies which all would have still been with the Knicks for another year if Walsh hadn't made trades to rid the Knicks of them and have the roster completely remade with young talent and under the cap for a full max again the next two off seasons?

I see you don't want anyone else rewriting history...you'll do it yourself and quite poorly at that. So while the Knicks are ahead of the Nets and keeping pretty closely paced with the Bucks although probably a few games behind but the Knicks will get to the playoffs. While Houston struggles in the tough west lucky to be in earshot of the last seed but misses the playoffs landing in the lottery so no swap takes place you'll be trolling elsewhere rewriting history.

Hypocritical comedy it is.....what you're bringing to this board.

[birdman113]

The fact that he took 5 3's per game isn't a good thing though. It just shows that he has poor shot selection and can't attack the rim. Same thing applies for Gallo. His FG% was down because he chucked 3's and couldnt attack the rim. The difference is Gallo is a smart player while Jennings is a player who just looks for the flashy and spectacular, and Gallo became more and more aggressive while the season went on while Jennings just continued to bomb away from deep.[/quote]

In fact, I just looked it up, and Jennings shot the most 3's per game in the last 2 months of the season.[/quote]

You do realize Danillo shot the second most ammount of threes all season?

And if Danillos allowed to shoot threes why isnt Jennings?

He shot less than 1% worse than Gallo from behind the arc.

[method]

I could see a scenario where Zeke was in Dolan's ear saying "Jimmy - you guys should be taking Jennings - he's the most dynamic talent in the draft".

Then Donnie goes and takes Hill --- Dolan sees Jennings take off and thinks damn Zeke knows talent.

I think thats a possibilty but you also have to remember last time Walsh gave the coach a chance to draft a high draft pick it was also IT when he was with the Pacers and IT picked Fred Jones when Walsh wanted Tayshawn(sp?) Prince

[hobojoe2131]

The fact that he took 5 3's per game isn't a good thing though. It just shows that he has poor shot selection and can't attack the rim.

STOP.

I think you're talking about a different player.

He took a lot of 3pters, partly due to shot selection but also because after he scored the double-nickel (55 pts vs GSW), teams started throwing the SG at him and a zone to back them up. Teams did this because the Bucks lacked outside shooting with Redd not being back and then ineffective.

Getting to the rim? Are you serious? Did you watch the Bucks? Jennings got to the rim at will |#pause|... His problem was that he relied on his floater too much. But even with that most of his points were on 3pters and layups. His weakness is that he has to improve his mid-range jumper.

I really think you're talking about a different player.

Attacking the rim was the wrong choice of words. He has a tough time finishing though. Same goes for Felton. Look at my last post, his 3's per game were their highest at the end of the season, so there goes that theory.

[birdman113]

STOP.

I think you're talking about a different player.

He took a lot of 3pters, partly due to shot selection but also because after he scored the double-nickel (55 pts vs GSW), teams started throwing the SG at him and a zone to back them up. Teams did this because the Bucks lacked outside shooting with Redd not being back and then ineffective.

Getting to the rim? Are you serious? Did you watch the Bucks? Jennings got to the rim at will |#pause|... His problem was that he relied on his floater too much. But even with that most of his points were on 3pters and layups. His weakness is that he has to improve his mid-range jumper.

I really think you're talking about a different player.[/quote]

hobojoe2131 is a stat guy.

I doubt hes even seen Jennings play before.

[Lin Your Face]

It amazes me how people declare that Jennings is garbage, while people always find excuses for our young players who are older than Jennings. Jennings had a great season for a rookie last year and has room to improve. I'm not going to cry because we passed on him, but if Jennings improves his shooting, which he still has time to do than he will be a great player.

[hobojoe2131]

STOP.

I think you're talking about a different player.

He took a lot of 3pters, partly due to shot selection but also because after he scored the double-nickel (55 pts vs GSW), teams started throwing the SG at him and a zone to back them up. Teams did this because the Bucks lacked outside shooting with Redd not being back and then ineffective.

Getting to the rim? Are you serious? Did you watch the Bucks? Jennings got to the rim at will |#pause|... His problem was that he relied on his floater too much. But even with that most of his points were on 3pters and layups. His weakness is that he has to improve his mid-range jumper.

I really think you're talking about a different player.

hobojoe2131 is a stat guy.

I doubt hes even seen Jennings play before.[/quote]

Yes I am a stat guy. But you are a nothing guy. I've seen Jennings play tons of times. I go to school in Wisconsin, and the Bucks are on local TV.

[nyqua11]

We don't really know that yet. Seeing bits and pieces of him in non NBA action is not enough evidence to go one way or another. You're right though, I shouldn't have included him on the list. He's an unknown.

True, I'm basing it off this scouting report: http://nbaplaybook.com/2010/07/27/overs ... ey-mozgov/

And another user who say team Russia's scrimmages on this board said the same thing about his defense.

[hobojoe2131]

Brandon Jennings had the 3rd lowest FG% at the rim out of all PG's last year. If that doesn't prove my point nothing will.

http://www.hoopdata.com/shotstats.aspx? ... =0&mins=25

[JohnStarksTheDunk]

Isiah couldn't do nothing, as in a rebuild. Dolan wanted playoffs. That was stated in the press conference. Dolan does not understand the purpose of a rebuild. The only way Walsh sold it was that we would get LeBron.

Fair point. If you want to say that Isiah's situation was worse than Walsh's because of Dolan, then I can't really argue against that.

Layden did a horrible job and left a mess than needed some cleanup (but Dolan's approval), and Isiah did a horrible job and left a mess than needed even more cleanup (but Dolan was willing to cooperate). I think that's pretty accurate.

[birdman113]

STOP.

I think you're talking about a different player.

He took a lot of 3pters, partly due to shot selection but also because after he scored the double-nickel (55 pts vs GSW), teams started throwing the SG at him and a zone to back them up. Teams did this because the Bucks lacked outside shooting with Redd not being back and then ineffective.

Getting to the rim? Are you serious? Did you watch the Bucks? Jennings got to the rim at will |#pause|... His problem was that he relied on his floater too much. But even with that most of his points were on 3pters and layups. His weakness is that he has to improve his mid-range jumper.

I really think you're talking about a different player.

hobojoe2131 is a stat guy.

I doubt hes even seen Jennings play before.

Yes I am a stat guy. But you are a nothing guy. I've seen Jennings play tons of times. I go to school in Wisconsin, and the Bucks are on local TV.[/quote]

Im from wisconsin too.

Ive seen him live three times (i saw one of their playoff games against Atlanta, crazy game)

And ive seen him on tv plenty.

So dont call me a nothing guy.

[hobojoe2131]

Im from wisconsin too.

Ive seen him live three times (i saw one of their playoff games against Atlanta, crazy game)

And ive seen him on tv plenty.

So dont call me a nothing guy.

Well make some posts that make some sense and don't bring everything back to a bad yo momma joke and I might care what you have to say. Until then, your points fall on deaf ears.

[birdman113]

I got to meet him too?

Did you?

[nyqua11]

Jennings did struggle to finish near the rim, but near the end of the season he started to figure it out and started to hit about 50% of his "at the rim" shots compared to shooting 30-45%~ the rest of the year. That should lead to a higher shooting percent if he attacks the rim more and keeps that percent next year and into the future since most young PG's struggle near the rim but improve it as they get used to the NBA game.

[OminousEther]

Look at that roster. Not one defender. Walsh is trying to get Jeffries back because he knows it.

Mozgov, Turiaf, Randolph, Azibuike, Felton and Douglas all call you an idiot.

Did you just say Randolph, and Felton can play defense?

Randolph played in only 33 games last season, of those games, he started like 8, averaged 22.7 minutes of playing time. But he managed to amassed 51 blocks! So he's not a complete waste on defense.

[birdman113]

Im from wisconsin too.

Ive seen him live three times (i saw one of their playoff games against Atlanta, crazy game)

And ive seen him on tv plenty.

So dont call me a nothing guy.

Well make some posts that make some sense and don't bring everything back to a bad yo momma joke and I might care what you have to say. Until then, your points fall on deaf ears.

Yo momma has deaf ears.

[stuporman]

we did not sign Felton to a Isiah type of contract (ie 5 years with trade kickers). We signed Felton to prove himself within a two year window.

Quoted For Truth.

Right. And that makes it okay...proving my point yet again. As long as his name isn't Isiah Thomas, all present and future Knick GM can keep up the Knicks 40+ year tradition of wack draft picks, overpaid FAs and bad trades. And most of all...not winning the title.

Again...at some point, you're gonna have to look at what WALSH has done. Isn't that what you guys keep saying to guys like me when we tried to defend Zeke when he had to clean up Layden's mess?

All kidding aside: when will Walsh be held accountable on his own merits? I say never. And the Knicks will still be a lottery team 3 and 4 years from now.

Well until Jennings or Lopez win a title with the Bucks and Nets respectively I'll make sure to remind you for their whole careers how much you overrate them. Plus if you keep bringing up Jennings on the Knick board all season long I''ll remind mods that your trolling and you probably won't last the full season without getting banned. That is until you come back as another name to rewrite history.