I bet Zeke pushed for Jennings....

[hobojoe2131]

I got to meet him too?

Did you?

No and I really couldn't give a ****.

[hobojoe2131]

Im from wisconsin too.

Ive seen him live three times (i saw one of their playoff games against Atlanta, crazy game)

And ive seen him on tv plenty.

So dont call me a nothing guy.

Well make some posts that make some sense and don't bring everything back to a bad yo momma joke and I might care what you have to say. Until then, your points fall on deaf ears.

Yo momma has deaf ears.

case in point.

[birdman113]

[/quote]

Did you just say Randolph, and Felton can play defense?[/quote]

Randolph played in only 33 games last season, of those games, he started like 8, averaged 22.7 minutes of playing time. But he managed to amassed 51 blocks! So he's not a complete waste on defense.[/quote]

Blocking shots is the only thing he can do defensivly.

Thats one of the reasons he was in Nelsons doghouse.

[stuporman]

And there it is...this is Knick fandom 2010. You guys hate Isiah so much that you will hype a PG who had 4 years to prove he was any good on an expansion team and was weak as hell. NO ONE wanted him...and then the Knicks came along. What's that tell you?

I wish a bunch of you would follow up with some nonsense about Felt-on being better than Jennings. Matter of fact, I'm gonna keep upping that subject all season long...Felt-on vs. Jennings...all because this guy spat out that garbage.

dude, why so worked up? You're the only one trying to rewrite history. Isiah sucked. Let's at least agree on that. If you really have to be hand-held through all the events of the debacle that was the Isiah era, then I don't know what to say.

Seems like you're just upset that, in your perception, Walsh is getting more leeway than Isiah. If that is the case, it's because Isiah was just that bad and left a situation where fans were going to be more patient as long as there was a direction. You can't take away from what Walsh has done to clean up the mess. If you want clear evidence that he's done a good job, just look at your boy Isiah trying to climb in the ring now. You think he'd be trying to get face time with the Knicks again, if the perception of the organization hasn't improved since he left?

Let's see what the team looks like this season. A lot of things have changed since last year. It just sounds like hate when you're trying to put us in the lottery again just because you're pissed someone replaced your guy.

You seem reasonable. You're cool.

However, I'm not trying to put the Knicks in the lottery. Look at that roster. Not one defender. Walsh is trying to get Jeffries back because he knows it.

You're right, there's not one defender...there's more than one. There probably isn't a lock-down type on the roster but there is multiple players capable of giving good effort on defense, both man to man and team defense. Plus shot blockers from perimeter players to big men. Walsh didn't want Jefferies back, especially not for the package of 'assets' falsely reported by a writer. You bought it hook, line and sinker.... you were punked.

[omerome]

Blocking shots is the only thing he can do defensivly.

Thats one of the reasons he was in Nelsons doghouse.

You sound like Isiah Thomas.

Are blocks overrated too?

[birdman113]

Blocking shots is the only thing he can do defensivly.

Thats one of the reasons he was in Nelsons doghouse.

You sound like Isiah Thomas.

Are blocks overrated too?

Why do you think i said Eddy Curry is our secret weapon?

[xxrainnn]

^ Are you seriously saying that Don Nelson of the WARRIORS put AR in the doghouse because he didn't play defense?!

Really?

[omerome]

Why do you think i said Eddy Curry is our secret weapon?

What are you talking about?!

[stuporman]

Sorry, Stutter, I should have clarified. I meant in terms of a rebuild, and it's clear you meant in terms of pure talent. Had Isiah done nothing, we would have had a ton of salary coming off the cap that first off-season, and more the following one, and all of our future picks.

You make a good point about Randolph and Crawford, but keep in mind that neither of those guys was ever considered a terrible player -- they were just overpaid. In that regard, I would compare them to the contracts of H20 (who did get injured, which obviously wasn't Isiah's fault) and KVH. Solid players, who just weren't as good as their contracts paid them.

Where Isiah's roster is worse than Layden's is in the Eddy Curry, Jerome James, Jared Jeffries, and Quentin Richardson regard. Two of those players are utterly useless and the other two aren't really any more serviceable than Shandon Anderson or Howard Eisley, whom Isiah inherited.

Jeffries and QRich are still valued. Hated Curr/James acquisitions so no argument. Plus, I'm not debating that Isiah did a good job as a GM. I'm debating whether the roster he left was worse than what he inherited.

Lampje, Sweetney, Eisley, Ward --- a bunch of players who never played any significant minutes for any team once Isiah traded them. I can't say that about any of the guys Zeke traded or drafted. In the case of draft picks, we're talking Balkman/Mardy -- guys who don't make much money and never got enough playing time.

Isiah couldn't do nothing, as in a rebuild. Dolan wanted playoffs. That was stated in the press conference. Dolan does not understand the purpose of a rebuild. The only way Walsh sold it was that we would get LeBron.

Debating on who left the worse roster is like debating which is worse, dog $hit or cat $hit. Layden left a roster filled with good guy, role players with little talent and a cap mess. Isiah left a roster filled with headcase, selfish stat stuffers with alot of talent and a cap hell. It really doesn't matter who left it worse, both left it like $hit.

Walsh might have sold Dolan on a dream of LeBron that was undermined by the weak willed FAs of this off season but he still made good on rebuilding the roster in less time it took Isiah to crap it up.....well change the crap and bury it in cap hell. He even shortened the time it would have taken to clear it up if Walsh kept those crappy fitting parts around. The roster was not going anywhere and even challenging for a final seed playoff appearance doesn't make it worth the wait if it wasn't going to grow into anything more than appear and disappear. At least with this roster a challenge for the final seed comes with the potential of growing into more than that with all the talented youth.

I'm not saying Walsh made no mistakes, cause he has, but he's done a hell of a job given the mess he was left even if it was sold on a dream that never came to fruition with LeBron. Which he can't be faulted for, people get to make up their own minds, it's a free country. He didn't lose out totally cause his plan was to get under the cap and make an impact with that space. He did, how much of one will remain to be seen.

[stuporman]

Blocking shots is the only thing he can do defensivly.

Thats one of the reasons he was in Nelsons doghouse.

/credibility

[haterade]

I fail to see a point there.

Point is Jennings isn't a Knicks and it's Walsh's fault.

Actually the point is Jennings isn't a Knick and its Jennings' fault. Walsh, D'Antoni, and the Knicks brass flew out to Europe to work out Jennings and Jennings didn't go to the work out. What does that tell you about the guy? If he wanted to be a Knick so bad, why didn't he go to the work out?

[StutterStep]

I fail to see a point there.

Point is Jennings isn't a Knicks and it's Walsh's fault.

Actually the point is Jennings isn't a Knick and its Jennings' fault. Walsh, D'Antoni, and the Knicks brass flew out to Europe to work out Jennings and Jennings didn't go to the work out. What does that tell you about the guy? If he wanted to be a Knick so bad, why didn't he go to the work out?

He played a full season. All of the Knicks international scouts had already seen him. He didn't attend some "camp" at the end of the year in Europe after a full season. He did not cancel a workout.

In fact, he came here to MSG and worked out for them before the draft.

[haterade]

He played a full season. All of the Knicks international scouts had already seen him. He didn't attend some "camp" at the end of the year in Europe after a full season. He did not cancel a workout.

In fact, he came here to MSG and worked out for them before the draft.

Yes I remember, do you also remember his interviews after his work outs? He was calling out Evans, Rubio, and Curry. I think from the Marbury mess, NY saw another headcase.

[Mush Man]

Even if Jennings turns out to be a Top-10 PG by the time his rookie contract is up, I'm still glad the Knicks passed on him.

It's not like at the time of the draft we were San Antonio, Boston or Los Angeles: a team with leaders, team players, a take no BS coach, and a winning atmosphere. A team like that can take a talented but undisciplined player and incorporate him into the culture that already exists (think Rodman with Bulls, Artest with Lakers, even Nate next year with Boston, etc).

At the time, we were a team of misfits, me-first stat-stuffers, and headcases. It would have fed into all of the worst instincts Jennings had coming into the NBA.

I bet if a Jennings-2.0 comes along 2-3 years from now, after Walsh's mark has been set on the organization... not just in players, but in attitude, team play, and expecting to win... you would see us take a risk.

But Knicks version 2009 NBA draft... I'm glad we passed.

[hobojoe2131]

He played a full season. All of the Knicks international scouts had already seen him. He didn't attend some "camp" at the end of the year in Europe after a full season. He did not cancel a workout.

In fact, he came here to MSG and worked out for them before the draft.

He barely played in Italy. So playing a whole season at 10 MPG or w/e it was isn't much...

[duetta]

All kidding aside: when will Walsh be held accountable on his own merits? I say never. And the Knicks will still be a lottery team 3 and 4 years from now.

This season. My hope is that this team will out-perform any team we've had since the Van Gundy years - assuming Amare stays healthy. And if he doesn't...well, it can't be argued that Isiah wouldn't have signed him under the same exact circumstances.

But this season has to be the test. We have to be significantly better than before.

[Stuckey-man]

Qualifying my remarks to make it clear I think the jury is still WAY out on Jennings, the obsession some of your have over this is ridiculous. It's a out and out fixation.

If we're to evaluate a GM's performance based on success of the draft picks they did make, and success of the draft picks they passed on, every single GM that ever held the position would get a failing grade.

No one on earth would be qualified to hold the position.

[haterade]

Even if Jennings turns out to be a Top-10 PG by the time his rookie contract is up, I'm still glad the Knicks passed on him.

It's not like at the time of the draft we were San Antonio, Boston or Los Angeles: a team with leaders, team players, a take no BS coach, and a winning atmosphere. A team like that can take a talented but undisciplined player and incorporate him into the culture that already exists (think Rodman with Bulls, Artest with Lakers, even Nate next year with Boston, etc).

At the time, we were a team of misfits, me-first stat-stuffers, and headcases. It would have fed into all of the worst instincts Jennings had coming into the NBA.

I bet if a Jennings-2.0 comes along 2-3 years from now, after Walsh's mark has been set on the organization... not just in players, but in attitude, team play, and expecting to win... you would see us take a risk.

But Knicks version 2009 NBA draft... I'm glad we passed.

In total agreement with you, Jennings went to a good environment for him. I think he needed the discipline from Skiles which he wouldn't have gotten from D'Antoni. It seems that D'Antoni let's the players keep each other accountable. Amare went wild in D'Antoni's last seasons in PHX and Amare even stated it was a problem with his own immaturity at the time. The Knicks don't have the veteran presence to control the locker room. The last person that had a semblance of that was QRich.

[kosmovitelli]

I bet Zeke pushed for Jennings...

I bet Zeke would have drafted Andrew Bynum instead of Channing Frye if he was the GM in 2005. Heck, considering he was a PG and he had an eye for talent, I'm sure he would have traded up (using a couple of future first round picks) to acquire Deron Williams or Chris Paul's rights. I'm sure a talent evalatuator like Isiah would never have traded two future lottery picks for Eddy Curry. He would have used those picks for Deron or Paul. And if he was the GM in 2006, I'm sure he would have drafted Rondo instead of Balkman. Same for Aaron Brooks in 2007. Zeke would never have passed on a PG like that. Too bad he wasn't the GM at the time, with a PG like Zeke, I'm sure he would never have passed on the chance to pick Deron, Paul, Rondo or Brooks. It can't be. He's just too good of a talent evaluator. No way he would have drafted PGs like Mardy Collins and Nate Robinson. I'm sure Zeke is also telling Dolan he would have picked Deron, Paul, Rondo or Brooks. Just like he would have picked Jenning if he was the GM.

[nyczlegacy]

I bet Zeke is sleeping with JD.