I bet Zeke pushed for Jennings....

[stuporman]

I surely didn't want Williams in that draft. I don't have to defend myself. I like Roy and Aldridge but knew the Knicks weren't getting them. For the Knicks pick, you know who I wanted? Rondo! I thought he'd made a good defensive back up who could run and score in transition....lol.

[clear]

I am extremely upset about how little appreciation Ernie Grunfeld gets, and how none a y'all are willing to admit that Tapscott **** up by passing on Ron Artest. I also really think we're going to regret tying up all our cap space in Chris Childs and Allan Houston, especially when Chris Webber is going to be a FA soon.

...this is the thread for rehashing tired-ass arguments, right?

[basaglia]

No you're wrong yet again. Your point makes no sense. Who gives a **** what you say on a message board? Fact is he passed on both of them. If he is so good, then he would have made the right pick.

He did make the right pick, when he straight up ignored the Marcus Williams talk. He was a slow-footed BUM and Zeke knew it.

The Fact is Donnie Walsh passed on Rondo as the Pacers President and he passed on Jennings as the Knicks President and he's gonna miss the chance to get Kyrie Irving, Josh Selby, Knight, Austin Rivers, etc. in the next two drafts, because of his DUMB trade with Houston.

And what's REALLY funny is thinking back to when a lot of NY fans and media were whining about the chance to get Lance Stephenson on 2010 and how Isiah blew it and Utah would be GREAT with that pick. What happens? Walsh has shot and doesn't take Stephenson. He ignores him. I hope Stephenson becomes an ABSOLUTE STAR, just to see guys like Berman and Mitch Lawrence and you Isiah-hating fans pretend like it didn't happen. But, when it's Zeke, y'all straight up have some elephant memories. "Oh, he passed on Bynum and Rondo...blah blah blah"....Zeke drafted an All-Star...Walsh, with better picks, hasn't come close.

[hobojoe2131]

No you're wrong yet again. Your point makes no sense. Who gives a **** what you say on a message board? Fact is he passed on both of them. If he is so good, then he would have made the right pick.

And what's REALLY funny is thinking back to when a lot of NY fans and media were whining about the chance to get Lance Stephenson on 2010 and how Isiah blew it and Utah would be GREAT with that pick. What happens? Walsh has shot and doesn't take Stephenson. He ignores him. I hope Stephenson becomes an ABSOLUTE STAR, just to see guys like Berman and Mitch Lawrence and you Isiah-hating fans pretend like it didn't happen..

This right here is why I'm embarrassed that we are fans of the same team. Although apparently you aren't, you look rooting for the guy that makes our FO look bad.

[Stuckey-man]

The FACT is RONDO HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. NO ONE WAS BEGGING HIM TO TAKE RONDO! But, you were begging him to take Marcus Williams.

So you're argument is Thomas was a good GM because he took Balkman instead of Marcus Williams...?

Really?

[stuporman]

Isiah drafted an alternate AS and had to be convinced to take the guy over his preference, Taft......the guy got named after injuries, not selected while playing in one of the biggest markets, at a weak position who Walsh's coaching pick turned him into it, anyway. Walsh also drafted Granger who except for the presence of LeBron at SF and playing in a small market could likely have been an AS at least once so far.

Ask the general board who would you rather have from the 2005 draft? Lee or Granger? I wonder who'd they pick...hmmmmmmm. Let's alone Granger or Nate or even Granger or Frye...lol.

[nyqua11]

The fact he drafted Balkman should go into the "He's a terrible GM" pile.

Balkman was a second rounder at best.

[basaglia]

Did he pass on Rondo, yes or no?

If all you have to defend Thomas is to point out that he passed on Marcus Williams, you're stuck in mud.

I'm establishing context to answer a lame question like "well, did he pass on Rondo, yes or no"...of course he did. And just as Donnie Walsh gets excuse for Jennings..."so did a lot of other teams."

My point, and try to follow here, is that the fanbase and media were SCREAMING for Jennings. It was an actual storyline. Walsh passed. Now when Isiah passed on Rondo, that was NOT the story. The story was he passed on Marcus Williams, because the fans and media were SCREAMING for him. Now, if Williams had been a beast, THEN blaming Isiah for taking Balkman would be completely legit. But, to blame him for Rondo? Seriously? You know, he passed on shannon Brown and Milsap, too. Should he get blamed for them?

Let's see who DONNIE WALSH, whose PACERS *NEEDED* an actual PG to replace Shoot 'Em up Tinsley, skipped Rondo asnd took Shawne Williams, who *drumroll* is out of the L.

[basaglia]

Isiah drafted an alternate AS and had to be convinced to take the guy over his preference, Taft

undoing history again? he took lee. end of discussion.

[seren]

No you're wrong yet again. Your point makes no sense. Who gives a **** what you say on a message board? Fact is he passed on both of them. If he is so good, then he would have made the right pick.

He did make the right pick, when he straight up ignored the Marcus Williams talk. He was a slow-footed BUM and Zeke knew it.

The Fact is Donnie Walsh passed on Rondo as the Pacers President and he passed on Jennings as the Knicks President and he's gonna miss the chance to get Kyrie Irving, Josh Selby, Knight, Austin Rivers, etc. in the next two drafts, because of his DUMB trade with Houston.

And what's REALLY funny is thinking back to when a lot of NY fans and media were whining about the chance to get Lance Stephenson on 2010 and how Isiah blew it and Utah would be GREAT with that pick. What happens? Walsh has shot and doesn't take Stephenson. He ignores him. I hope Stephenson becomes an ABSOLUTE STAR, just to see guys like Berman and Mitch Lawrence and you Isiah-hating fans pretend like it didn't happen. But, when it's Zeke, y'all straight up have some elephant memories. "Oh, he passed on Bynum and Rondo...blah blah blah"....Zeke drafted an All-Star...Walsh, with better picks, hasn't come close.

I kind of agree with you on this. This may end up being as bad as the Curry deal where we gave up a 2nd pick and 9th pick. Now we can't even give the guy away for free.

[hobojoe2131]

Isiah drafted an alternate AS and had to be convinced to take the guy over his preference, Taft

undoing history again? he took lee. end of discussion.

He took Balkman over Rondo. End of discussion

[stuporman]

I am extremely upset about how little appreciation Ernie Grunfeld gets, and how none a y'all are willing to admit that Tapscott **** up by passing on Ron Artest. I also really think we're going to regret tying up all our cap space in Chris Childs and Allan Houston, especially when Chris Webber is going to be a FA soon.

...this is the thread for rehashing tired-ass arguments, right?

I'm still bummed that the Knicks passed on Bird for Micheal Ray Richardson, who I liked but would have rather drafted the sweet shooting big man with the crafty all around game.

[Stuckey-man]

I'm establishing context to answer a lame question like "well, did he pass on Rondo, yes or no"...of course he did. And just as Donnie Walsh gets excuse for Jennings..."so did a lot of other teams."

Instead of establishing context, why not just state your premise directly?

- Was Isiah Thomas a successful GM?

- Was Isiah Thomas a more successful GM than Walsh?

Just state directly and clearly what you want to say rather than beating around the bush.

My point, and try to follow here, is that the fanbase and media were SCREAMING for Jennings. It was an actual storyline. Walsh passed. Now when Isiah passed on Rondo, that was NOT the story. The story was he passed on Marcus Williams, because the fans and media were SCREAMING for him. Now, if Williams had been a beast, THEN blaming Isiah for taking Balkman would be completely legit. But, to blame him for Rondo? Seriously? You know, he passed on shannon Brown and Milsap, too. Should he get blamed for them?

The problem with you point, and try to follow me here, is you're trying to distill the track record of Isiah Thomas by filtering this record through media perception, which is completely irrelevant.

Who the fans and the media were calling for has NO bearing on Thomas' record.

If you want to criticize Walsh for passing on Jennings, then it's entirely fair game to criticize Thomas for passing on Rondo.

You seem to be attempting some slight of hand to try to distract from that simple point.

[stuporman]

Isiah drafted an alternate AS and had to be convinced to take the guy over his preference, Taft

undoing history again? he took lee. end of discussion.

No, it's all part of history, just some people like to highlight parts of it and ignore other parts of it. Like Lee being named an AS after injuries and only once Walsh's coaching selection puffed him into a statistical candidate.

You seem to like to pick some writers reporting as fact and view other's as insignificant. You don't want to acknowledge Isiah wanted Taft and had to be convinced to keep Lee since he was ready to trade him off for Curry yet his scouts again convinced him to not include Lee in the trade. But you'll nut nuzzle some guy's tweet about Walsh supposedly wanting Jefferies back for a bunch of 'assets'. So which is it? Accept rumor or ignore it?

Just like you ignore Granger part of my post to focus on another part of it...even clipping my post to not even quote it. LOL! MEGAFAIL!

[basaglia]

Isiah drafted an alternate AS and had to be convinced to take the guy over his preference, Taft

undoing history again? he took lee. end of discussion.

He took Balkman over Rondo. End of discussion

But, unlike you, I can AGREE with a bottomline/scoreboard type statement like that. When it comes to Walsh, YOU CAN'T. All I read are EXCUSES and Zeke-blaming.

[basaglia]

Isiah drafted an alternate AS and had to be convinced to take the guy over his preference, Taft

undoing history again? he took lee. end of discussion.

No, it's all part of history

No, it's all part of an anti-Zeke campaign that started to go viral in early 2006. the very MOMENT David Lee started showing signs of being a good player, the Zeke-hating members of the media tried to discredit that pick. Do you remember what was said when Lee was drafted? Not good things. Fans and media mentioned Turiaf and Ellis...said he shoulda taken a chance on Ellis. Oh, man, Ellis became a HUGE cause for the Zeke-haters a couple of years ago when he was putting up 30 shots a game and scoring 25 a night.

I remember it ALL. Zeke's entire tenure is just comedy...from his screwups to fans and media trying to blame him for things that happened BEFORE him and AFTER him.

[bklynstoops]

He took Balkman over Rondo. End of discussion

But, unlike you, I can AGREE with a bottomline/scoreboard type statement like that. When it comes to Walsh, YOU CAN'T. All I read are EXCUSES and Zeke-blaming.

so, just to clear this up, you DO agree that Isiah sucked, he was an embarrassment as an exec, and he should've been fired. You just would like if we hated Walsh as much as we hate Isiah? That's the crux of your argument?

[Stuckey-man]

I remember it ALL. Zeke's entire tenure is just comedy...from his screwups to fans and media trying to blame him for things that happened BEFORE him and AFTER him.

Eddy Curry
Stephon Marbury
Steve Francis
Jerome James
5 head coaches
Channing Frye

Which of these was Isiah Thomas not ultimately responsible for?

[basaglia]

The problem with you point, and try to follow me here, is you're trying to distill the track record of Isiah Thomas by filtering this record through media perception, which is completely irrelevant.
.

Which is different than trying to distill Walsh's track record by filtering it through the perception of Isiah Thomas?

I'll say it AGAIN: sooner or later, Walsh's transactions are going to have to be JUDGED on their on merit and not in relation to Isiah.

Walsh has made some weak picks and bad trades and, for the time being, he's been insulated from actual analysis of those moves because he's not Isiah. They are BAD MOVES.

[basaglia]

I remember it ALL. Zeke's entire tenure is just comedy...from his screwups to fans and media trying to blame him for things that happened BEFORE him and AFTER him.

Eddy Curry
Stephon Marbury
Steve Francis
Jerome James
5 head coaches
Channing Frye

Which of these was Isiah Thomas not ultimately responsible for?

Oh, he's responsible for ALL of them.

I just hope you can be as bottomline as me this time next year. But, honestly, I'd prefer if you try to defend Walsh's deals

When Amare knee acts up, stuff like "Well, who knew?" won't get it done with me.
When Felt-on plays like...himself, stuff like "At least it's only two years" won't get it done.