The Four-Team Trade

[MPM]

Couple of things to come out of this...first, I have a unhealthy obsession with Darren Collison in Bobcats orange. If Boris Diaw could have replaced Troy Murphy in this trade (with Collison coming to the Bobs) I would have soiled myself with joy and, along with a future move of Damp, would have considered this a great offseason. Second, it seems that the Bobs have an unhealthy obsession of their own in senor Jose Calderon, trying to enter the deal by parting with Damp and bringing in the defenseless wonder. Calderon is OK, but I had hopes that the FO could do something more with Damp's big unguaranteed.

[JDuaneWayne]

1. Diaw isn't as good as Troy Murphy.

2. He is owed more money over 2 seasons vs. 1 season.

If we trade Dampier for Calderon, I would have rather us have made the Calderon/Evans for Tyson/Diaw move. It makes much more sense.

[MPM]

1. Diaw isn't as good as Troy Murphy.

2. He is owed more money over 2 seasons vs. 1 season.

If we trade Dampier for Calderon, I would have rather us have made the Calderon/Evans for Tyson/Diaw move. It makes much more sense.

Agreed on Diaw vs. Murphy, but feel like we could have become more involved in this trade. DJ/Diaw/Damp are all pieces we could have leveraged. Collison would have been a fantastic starting PG for the Bobs.

[JDuaneWayne]

Agreed. Maybe we will tank this year get lucky and get Kyrie. For now I guess we have to hope DJ hoops it up. I don't want Calderon though, so much so I would have traded DJ for Collison & Dampier for Okafor.

[dmutombo321]

http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wireta ... _calderon/

After reading this story this morning, I was going to create a thread entitled “WTF?” with respect to this 4 team trade. But I see someone beat me to the punch by creating one more conservatively named “Four-Team Trade”

The article, if accurate, basically states that we tried to get involved in yesterday’s multi-team deal by trading Dampier and getting back Calderon.

If we wanted Calderon, why the hell didn’t we just trade Chandler/Diaw for him directly back when we had the chance? The reported deal that MJ allegedly backed out of was Chandler/Diaw for Calderon and Reggie Evans’ $5mil expiring.

This would have amounted to:

Chandler: $12.8 (expiring)
Diaw: $9 (two years left)

for

Calderon: $9 mil (multiple years remaining)
Reggie Evans: 5 mil (expiring)
= $7.8 mil in net payroll savings next year.


Instead of doing that deal, we abort it at the 11th hour, deal Chandler/Ajinca for Dampier who we turn around and try to convert into Calderon anyway. BUT, in doing so, we acquiesce to taking Carroll and Najara’s garbage contracts off Dallas’s hands.

This would amount to:


Calderon: $9mil (multiple years remaining)
Carroll: $4.3 mil (multiple years remaining)
Najara: $2.8 mil (multiple years remaining)
+ Diaw $9 mil (multiple years remaining) [who we retain and otherwise would have been traded in the deal we vetoed]
- Ajicja (who was included in the Dampier trade @ $1.5 mil)
=$1.8 mil in net payroll addition when compared to the previous deal Charlotte rejected.

So both deals would snare them Calderon and a backup PF (Evans vs. Najara) but instead they inexplicably opt to pursue the one that not only results in them handing away Ajinca to Dallas for nothing and adding $1.8 mil more payroll for next year but also wasting an additional $19 mil over the next three seasons (the aggregate salary obligation for the balance of Carroll and Najaras deals plus the cost of keeping Diaw).
It’s becoming more and more apparent that they acquired Dampier’s contract with lofty ambitions and visions of sugar plums dancing in their heads (i.e. some pie in the sky scheme of converting the dust chip into Chris Paul) without conducting the appropriate due diligence before pulling the trigger.

Now that reality has slapped them in the face, they’re desperately scrambling to salvage something.

I suspect the pressure is becoming even greater as they see other Eastern teams improving around them.

While we’ve taken a step backwards, other teams like NJ, NY, and IN are improving.

Take NJ for example:

Harris / Farmar
T Will / Morrow
Outlaw / Twill
Murphy / Favors
Lopez / Boone

It goes without saying that their future is of course infinitely brighter than ours but even next year, I think that roster could conceivably post a win total in the high 30s and compete for the final playoff spot.

[JDuaneWayne]

http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/68654/20100812/bobcats_tried_to_land_jose_calderon/

After reading this story this morning, I was going to create a thread entitled “WTF?” with respect to this 4 team trade. But I see someone beat me to the punch by creating one more conservatively named “Four-Team Trade”

The article, if accurate, basically states that we tried to get involved in yesterday’s multi-team deal by trading Dampier and getting back Calderon.

If we wanted Calderon, why the hell didn’t we just trade Chandler/Diaw for him directly back when we had the chance? The reported deal that MJ allegedly backed out of was Chandler/Diaw for Calderon and Reggie Evans’ $5mil expiring.

This would have amounted to:

Chandler: $12.8 (expiring)
Diaw: $9 (two years left)

for

Calderon: $9 mil (multiple years remaining)
Reggie Evans: 5 mil (expiring)
= $7.8 mil in net payroll savings next year.


Instead of doing that deal, we abort it at the 11th hour, deal Chandler/Ajinca for Dampier who we turn around and try to convert into Calderon anyway. BUT, in doing so, we acquiesce to taking Carroll and Najara’s garbage contracts off Dallas’s hands.

This would amount to:


Calderon: $9mil (multiple years remaining)
Carroll: $4.3 mil (multiple years remaining)
Najara: $2.8 mil (multiple years remaining)
+ Diaw $9 mil (multiple years remaining) [who we retain and otherwise would have been traded in the deal we vetoed]
- Ajicja (who was included in the Dampier trade @ $1.5 mil)
=$1.8 mil in net payroll addition when compared to the previous deal Charlotte rejected.

So both deals would snare them Calderon and a backup PF (Evans vs. Najara) but instead they inexplicably opt to pursue the one that not only results in them handing away Ajinca to Dallas for nothing and adding $1.8 mil more payroll for next year but also wasting an additional $19 mil over the next three seasons (the aggregate salary obligation for the balance of Carroll and Najaras deals plus the cost of keeping Diaw).
It’s becoming more and more apparent that they acquired Dampier’s contract with lofty ambitions and visions of sugar plums dancing in their heads (i.e. some pie in the sky scheme of converting the dust chip into Chris Paul) without conducting the appropriate due diligence before pulling the trigger.

Now that reality has slapped them in the face, they’re desperately scrambling to salvage something.

I suspect the pressure is becoming even greater as they see other Eastern teams improving around them.

While we’ve taken a step backwards, other teams like NJ, NY, and IN are improving.

Take NJ for example:

Harris / Farmar
T Will / Morrow
Outlaw / Twill
Murphy / Favors
Lopez / Boone

It goes without saying that their future is of course infinitely brighter than ours but even next year, I think that roster could conceivably post a win total in the high 30s and compete for the final playoff spot.

I completely agree with you. I'm baffled. I highlighted our blunders in a Eastern Conference - ESPN thread. Not only did we lose money in the end but we gave up Ajinca I know the reviews on him are mixed but he still has talent and potential to develop into something. All that's playing in my head is a sad song. We have people in our FO that aren't smarter than a 5th grader!

[JDuaneWayne]

My post on the other thread shares much of the same sentiment I moved it to this thread.

I agree with your post teach. I honestly wish we would have kept our team from the beginning of summer. We have dropped the ball all summer. Everybody supports the Tyson trade because MJ took a "gamble" well you don't gamble like that until you the other trade set up. Blunders this off-season.

1. Not exploring all options to trade for Beasley, we couldn't trade just a pick for him because we were over the cap (the hold from Tyrus) had we rescinded Tyrus we could have made this trade easily saving ~2.6 million (Tyrus 2yr/13.9mil vs. Beasley 2yr/11.3mil) this season with a team option for next then owning Beasley's bird rights for next year. Instead we overpaid Tyrus. (-25 point for FO)

2. We rejected the original Calderon/Evans deal (I almost pooped my pants when it was originally Diaw for Dwayne Jones & TPE.) In that deal we took on Calderon 3yrs/29.4mil Reggie Evans 1yr/5.0mil giving up Tyson 1yr/12.6mil Diaw 2yr/18mil. We lose 3.8mil over the course of the contracts but have a starting PG. (-200 points for FO compared to what we wound up actually doing)

3. Instead we trade Tyson 1yr/12.6mil & an arguably decent big man prospect Ajinca 2yr/3.7mil for Dampier (who will likely be cut or resigned for less price) Najera 2yr/5.8mil & Carroll 3yr/11.7mil so the salaries almost match up but talent doesn't and if we cut Dampier we currently have a large void at the 5. If we resign Dampier for less this deal becomes even worse. We've added 2 more friends for Diop to talk to at the end of the bench. Although it looks like right now he's going to see the floor for a lot of minutes this season. This looks real stupid with how Tyson played in USA scrimmage.

4. We had our eyes on CP3 so much we missed out on a potential upgrade at the point. You can't tell me NO wouldn't have done an Okafor/Dampier then DJ/Collison trade. I'm not a huge fan of it but we're better than we are now. (-10 points for FO)

5. Now we're pursuing a trade for a 4th PG (LB's fetish must be out of control) which would most likely have us trading DJ at his low point. I don't understand what we have seen in DJ comparing the 2 years that doesn't warrant at least giving him a chance to start first 1/4 of the year. (-50 points for FO because this just doesn't make sense)

So for all of you reading at home we could have potentially had this lineup with massive cap flexibility coming up this summer to make a trade for a legitmate 5.
Calderon/DJ/Livingston
Jax/Hendo
Crash/UPS/McGuire
Beasley/Evans
Nazr/Diop

We could have signed someone at the 5 back when players were available. I didn't want Shaq but whatever.

Instead we have this and limited flexibility that we seem to want to piss away more and more everyday.
DJ/Livingston/Collins
Jax/Hendo/Carroll
Crash/UPS/McGuire
Tyrus/Diaw/Najera
Nazr/Diop (I'm not including Dampier until he is cut then resigned)

Even our team with no trades and FA going down how it played out is better and we have more cap flexibility next summer.
DJ/Livingston/Collins
Jax/Hendo
Crash/UPS/McGuire
Tyrus/Diaw
Tyson/Nazr/Diop/Ajinca

This offseason has made me sick. I will always remain a fan but the FO is making it tough.
***EDIT*** How did I forget McGuire another one of our top level signings this offseason

[BigSlam]

Blah.

Let's just wait until we see what happens with Dampier/the roster before we start up the witch hunt just yet. There are a lot of "if's", "but's", "maybe's" and "unknown's" at this stage. Until we actually do something, we have to reserve our judgement.

[Jaruff]

Some thoughts:

Ajinca: Who cares? If we really want him back, we can sign him after this season is up. I doubt Dallas will accept his team option because he'll probably be in the D-League the entire year or at the very end of the Dallas bench.

Diaw: Tyrus getting a new contract does not automatically mean that he's going to start this season. Yes, he might eventually play, but I doubt Larry Brown and the FO are in a hurry to trade Diaw. He's probably the only reason why the Toronto deal did not happen.

Calderon: Why would we bring in Calderon with three PG's already on roster? Unless we're dumping DJ in an upcoming deal, our PG rotation should be set entering the season. Plus, bringing in Calderon to replace a cheaper Felton would outrage many casual fans, especially if they figure out that Calderon makes more money than Felton.

Collison: He's overrated at this point. Remember when DJ had his nice rookie season? What happened this year? Exactly. Not worth the risk of taking on Okafor's contract. At this point, DJ/Livingston > Collison and right now is the only time that matters. Worry about the future when LB leaves and MJ cleans the slate.

[SamBone]

I wish they could have simply offered N.O. damp for Meka and Collison

[therebirth]

Why is it so easy for some of you to believe negetive stuff about this team? MJ has said he wont go over the tax except for a star. They rejected a much better trade before. Just last week it was reported that Dampier is going to be waived and tried to resign him. They already have 3 pgs. Now tell me how do you go from that to this? Why would Toronto and Indiana not accept this deal? Sometimes common sense should be used when you hear this types of reports. This is either a false report or that is not the entire deal.

[DY_nasty]

Why is it so easy for some of you to believe negetive stuff about this team? MJ has said he wont go over the tax except for a star. They rejected a much better trade before. Just last week it was reported that Dampier is going to be waived and tried to resign him. They already have 3 pgs. Now tell me how do you go from that to this? Why would Toronto and Indiana not accept this deal? Sometimes common sense should be used when you hear this types of reports. This is either a false report or that is not the entire deal.

Maybe its me reading too much into it, but it seems to me that there's a bit of a communication issue or rift in the Bobcats FO. Look at the 'done' trade with Indy that didn't go down all of a sudden, then the first deal with Toronto that states that Jordan stopped, now this - Higgins or enough people want DJ gone or coming off the bench badly enough to shop him around, but someone else (likely jordan) wants him to get his fair shot at the starting spot before doing anything else.

I'm usually not one of the far-fetched stuff like this, but I'd like to believe that our FO is simply that incompetent.

[ball teacher]

Why is it so easy for some of you to believe negetive stuff about this team? MJ has said he wont go over the tax except for a star. They rejected a much better trade before. Just last week it was reported that Dampier is going to be waived and tried to resign him. They already have 3 pgs. Now tell me how do you go from that to this? Why would Toronto and Indiana not accept this deal? Sometimes common sense should be used when you hear this types of reports. This is either a false report or that is not the entire deal.

I don't get your logic. What's hard to believe about the Bobcats trying to get Calderon again?