Jerry Angelo Confidence Vote

[emperorjones]

Jerry Angelo Confidence Vote

[dougthonus]

So far, I like this off season. I'm happy with every deal we signed. No one who we missed out on has signed at a price where I'd have pursued them.

We've got maybe 11 million left in cap space. It will be interesting to see if we use it to lock up Tommie Harris / Devon Hester or whether we use it to bring in an offensive lineman or if we use it on something else all together.

[NLK]

Well this one is a tricky one for me.
From an emotional standpoint I would hands down voted "No."
From a logical/mental standpoint I would vote "Yes."

So I figured abstain best described my vote. And here's why:
If you asked me this question during the season, it would "No confidence, and yes he deserves to die, and I hope he burns in hell!" (ala Sam Jackson)

However its the off-season, and seeing as to what Bernard Berrian got from the Vikes, Ayanbadejo got from the Ravens, releasing Miller & Reuben Brown, he's made some wise moves.
To me, viewing what he's done, I had to pick an abstain position.

It all on depends how he tries to add/improve our other needs, which would make me pick a position (O-Line, RB, QB, Safety, ) & how he deals with a crazy Urlacher.

[Chewie]

Well, I'm going on the assumption this confidence vote is not just for this offseason - which is still in the baby stages - but for his overall performance since Day 1. That being the case, it's a 'no' vote for me. He's swung and missed on the "skill" positions too many times in the high rounds - Grossman, Terrell, and Benson being the glaring ones.

And smart teams have the brains to identify their mistakes, correct them, and move on. Angelo wasn't smart enough to make it a competition for Grossman's job a couple years ago and alienated the top FA QBs when Rex had done nothing to distinguish himself to that point. And I have a strong feeling we're going to be stuck with no competition for Benson's job this year on a team that supposedly calls itself a running team.

EDIT: Meanwhile the Seahawks - who already had a better RB than the Bears in Alexander, pick up DJ Duckett AND Julius Jones in free agency. Two RBs that are ALSO better than Benson. And I consider the Hawks a PASSING team.

As I said in another thread, I'd like to hear a single team that has worse WRs, offensive linemen, starting QB, or starting RB. That's just plain sad.
And who do we have to blame for that ?

[Ruben Douglas]

I voted no. The Bears have consistently had one of the worst offenses during his tenure as GM. There are no signs of this changing either. Even if they draft all offense, I have no confidence in his ability to draft that side of the ball. And I have less confidence in the Bears coaching staff to develop that talent.

[IVSKIN]

Well, I'm going on the assumption this confidence vote is not just for this offseason - which is still in the baby stages - but for his overall performance since Day 1. That being the case, it's a 'no' vote for me. He's swung and missed on the "skill" positions too many times in the high rounds - Grossman, Terrell, and Benson being the glaring ones.

And smart teams have the brains to identify their mistakes, correct them, and move on. Angelo wasn't smart enough to make it a competition for Grossman's job a couple years ago and alienated the top FA QBs when Rex had done nothing to distinguish himself to that point. And I have a strong feeling we're going to be stuck with no competition for Benson's job this year on a team that supposedly calls itself a running team.

EDIT: Meanwhile the Seahawks - who already had a better RB than the Bears in Alexander, pick up DJ Duckett AND Julius Jones in free agency. Two RBs that are ALSO better than Benson. And I consider the Hawks a PASSING team.

As I said in another thread, I'd like to hear a single team that has worse WRs, offensive linemen, starting QB, or starting RB. That's just plain sad.
And who do we have to blame for that ?

Rumor has it that the Seahawks are considering releasing Shaun Alexander. If this is the case, they actually got worse at RB, not better. Julius Jones is okay, but by no means is he a franchise back.

EDIT: I guess I should also contribute to this topic. I will vote yes. His biggest move that I think gets overlooked is the resigning of Briggs. He was all but out of town, and that would have left us with a hole at the linebacking position as well as everywhere else. We couldn't afford to lose him, and somehow Angelo got him to stay. Yes, we need O-line help, and we will probably get somebody by the end of free agency, and atleast one young guy out of the draft. And I think the Brandon Lloyd and Marty Booker signings were good. Booker should have a better season then Moose, and Lloyd will be servicable, and no matter what, a bargain for his league minimum salary.

So I say Yes to Angelo, even though he has made some of the dumbest moves ever.

[dougthonus]

Angelo only had full GM powers since 2003, prior to that Dick Jauron had roster control powers in his contract.

Since then, the Bears had 1 bad year (the first one) which you could say he was cleaning house of Jauron's crap.

2 great years (one in which we made it to the superbowl and one where we earned a 1st round bye) and 1 bad year (this past one) where the team was decimated by injuries including the loss of two starters (one a pro bowler) in the first game, and significant injuries to 2 other pro bowl caliber players, and both our starting cornerbacks.

It seems pretty reasonable to give Angelo a pass on the first year he had complete roster control as he made over the roster, the Bears followed by 2 outstanding years, and a year that was 7-9 where we played half the season with about 5 starting defensive players out of the lineup.

Also, remember that the Bears have never had a great QB, and have accomplished their success with mediocre players at the most important position in football which makes it far harder. Of the GMs who've done better than Angelo, many of them have had a true franchise QB for a long time and have started with that huge inherent advantage.

[Chewie]

-= original quote snipped =-



Rumor has it that the Seahawks are considering releasing Shaun Alexander. If this is the case, they actually got worse at RB, not better. Julius Jones is okay, but by no means is he a franchise back.

We're going off on a sidebar here but the Seahawks are at least willing to try to improve their situation. Whether it be due to money, injury, or performance, they've identified RB as a position that needs new blood and brought in not only Duckett but Julius Jones. Not franchise guys, no, but it's more than making moves just for the sake of it.

[Chewie]

Also, remember that the Bears have never had a great QB, and have accomplished their success with mediocre players at the most important position in football which makes it far harder.

This part of your post seems more pro-Lovie than pro-Angelo. Basically saying Lovie's been able to put together a couple of good seasons despite the fact Angelo's given him so-so talent.

[dougthonus]

This part of your post seems more pro-Lovie than pro-Angelo. Basically saying Lovie's been able to put together a couple of good seasons despite the fact Angelo's given him so-so talent.

Maybe, I think Love Smith has done a very solid job. He's primarily a defensive coach, and our defense was elite except when we were missing half our defensive starters. However, it's not like it's easy to get a franchise QB. The only one we had a shot at since Angelo had full roster control was Drew Brees who had a separated shoulder at the time we had to pursue him, so I'm not too upset that we didn't pay him franchise QB money to make it work (though nice job by New Orleans).

[dougthonus]

We're going off on a sidebar here but the Seahawks are at least willing to try to improve their situation. Whether it be due to money, injury, or performance, they've identified RB as a position that needs new blood and brought in not only Duckett but Julius Jones. Not franchise guys, no, but it's more than making moves just for the sake of it.

Do you think that the Bears are not trying to improve their team?

In the end you only have a fixed amount of resources, and you have a number of holes on the team. You need to prioritize which holes get filled. If the Bears spend up to the cap (or near it) then I don't see how anyone can complain about them not identifying and filling holes. There's only so much you can do with the money available.

We have 11 million in cap space after the rookie pool right now (roughly) if we extend Hester and Harris (I'm sure all Bears fans would like to see that) then we might use the rest of that space.

[Ruben Douglas]

Also, remember that the Bears have never had a great QB, and have accomplished their success with mediocre players at the most important position in football which makes it far harder. Of the GMs who've done better than Angelo, many of them have had a true franchise QB for a long time and have started with that huge inherent advantage.

This is exactly the reason why I have no confidence in Angelo. Why settle for mediocrity? JA hasn't and, in all likely hood, will not find a franchise QB that will be able to lead the offense. This is why I have no confidence in the man. He has tried and failed.

[Chewie]

Do you think that the Bears are not trying to improve their team?

In the end you only have a fixed amount of resources, and you have a number of holes on the team. You need to prioritize which holes get filled. If the Bears spend up to the cap (or near it) then I don't see how anyone can complain about them not identifying and filling holes. There's only so much you can do with the money available.

I don't know what we're thinking to tell you the truth. I could identify the holes as easily as the next Bears fan going into the offseason (and following our cuts): 2 to 3 offensive linemen, 3 wide receivers, a real, live QB, a starting quality RB, and a safety.

I've seen two retread WRs signed on the cheap thus far and I've heard no news on the renegotiations of the Urlacher, Harris, and Hester contracts. Maybe it's just my impatience talking here but there are only so many draft picks we get and if we're relying on rookies-n-retreads to have a successful 2008, we may as well stop fooling ourselves and call it what it is....the beginning of a rebuild.

And if Angelo has mis-managed our cap space so badly that we have so many glaring holes and little money to fill them, he's not really deserving of a 'yes' confidence vote, is he ?

[dougthonus]

This is exactly the reason why I have no confidence in Angelo. Why settle for mediocrity? JA hasn't and, in all likely hood, will not find a franchise QB that will be able to lead the offense. This is why I have no confidence in the man. He has tried and failed.

But who are all the guys he could have had?

If the answer is no one, then it's like me blaming you for not winning the lottery.

[dougthonus]

I don't know what we're thinking to tell you the truth. I could identify the holes as easily as the next Bears fan going into the offseason (and following our cuts): 2 to 3 offensive linemen, 3 wide receivers, a real, live QB, a starting quality RB, and a safety.

I agree with your list, I think we've done well to try and fill the WR hole now without spending much or using up a lot of our assets. We're competent, but not good there now. There was no way to fill the QB hole just due to lack of FAs available and a rookie QB is unlikely to fill it either.

That leaves OL, Safety, and RB to try and fill with the rest of our cap space and the draft.

we may as well stop fooling ourselves and call it what it is....the beginning of a rebuild.

I agree, we probably are trying to half rebuild and half win now. I'm not sure if it's the right approach vs fully rebuilding. Though the NFL draft is unlike the NBA draft, you don't need to be at the top to rebuild.

And if Angelo has mis-managed our cap space so badly that we have so many glaring holes and little money to fill them, he's not really deserving of a 'yes' confidence vote, is he ?

It's a fair point, but...

Would you be complaining about his cap management had we won the superbowl? We relied on a lot of expensive veterans to try to field that team, and last year a lot of those guys hit the end of the road. Would you have preferred to blow up the team last year instead?

Or at least would you have said that at the beginning of last year rather than now?

[Ruben Douglas]

This is exactly the reason why I have no confidence in Angelo. Why settle for mediocrity? JA hasn't and, in all likely hood, will not find a franchise QB that will be able to lead the offense. This is why I have no confidence in the man. He has tried and failed.

But who are all the guys he could have had?

If the answer is no one, then it's like me blaming you for not winning the lottery.

The fact that he has stuck with Grossman for such a long time is one reason. Jonathan Quinn is another reason. The list goes on. But what it comes down to isn't just this offseason, its the culmination of all of them. Look at the offense that JA inherited...now look at the offense that the Bears now have. What improvements have been made? TE and that's about it. Granted this offseason isn't over, but there is no reason to believe that he will mend what has been broken. Don't get me wrong, I hope he can find a way to fix it, and if he does I will gladly, gladly, gladly eat my words. I just don't see a scenario in which JA evaluates the offensive talent in this draft to make this offense a success.

[dougthonus]

The fact that he has stuck with Grossman for such a long time is one reason. Jonathan Quinn is another reason. The list goes on. But what it comes down to isn't just this offseason, its the culmination of all of them. Look at the offense that JA inherited...now look at the offense that the Bears now have. What improvements have been made? TE and that's about it. Granted this offseason isn't over, but there is no reason to believe that he will mend what has been broken. Don't get me wrong, I hope he can find a way to fix it, and if he does I will gladly, gladly, gladly eat my words. I just don't see a scenario in which JA evaluates the offensive talent in this draft to make this offense a success.

I'm not arguing the Bears have a great offense, nor am I arguing that he's a great offensive mind.

However, he built a team that went to the superbowl. Since he's had full roster control, the Bears have spent up to the cap limit every year. They had 2 great years, and then last year the team got decimated by injuries so bad that we were missing half of the starting defense for most of the season and still went 7-9.

I just don't see how you can blame Angelo for last year based on the injuries. I don't see how you can be upset with the teams talent level based on the 2 years prior to that.

[Howling Mad]

I just don't see how you can blame Angelo for last year based on the injuries. I don't see how you can be upset with the teams talent level based on the 2 years prior to that.

The talent level of this team is great, except on the offense. Whether thats judged from the job Angelo has done or if the loyality went in the wrong direction when we decided to keep Turner and let Rivera walk, don't know.

But, two years when we should've fired our offensive coordinator (Shoop one year, Turner another), we didn't. Instead we let go the catalyst of the defense, which wasn't a player, but a coach. Rivera.

Angelo has all the credit in the world when drafting defensive guys, but even he has to know he can't spot offensive talent. No not Devin Hester, he is a unique case of speed that was utilized properly.


The injuries aren't to blame for this year because we've had injuries like that before and we ended fine with guys like Chris Harris, Tank Johnson, Ian Scott, Joe Odom, Alex Brown, Mike Green. Mike Brown is a lock to be injured every year. Even Hunter Hillenmeyer steps it up when either of the other two LBs are hurt.

Some of the injuries were nursed longer than usual because of our terrible position at the time, but I belive if things were different they could've returned sooner.

As far as I know the only significant element that changed on defense was Rivera leaving. I'll blame Angelo and Love, complimentary blame, for that.

[Chewie]

I agree, we probably are trying to half rebuild and half win now. I'm not sure if it's the right approach vs fully rebuilding. Though the NFL draft is unlike the NBA draft, you don't need to be at the top to rebuild.

It's funny you use the NBA analogy because it reminds me of what the Knicks do - rather than completely overhaul, they tinker here and there in the name of keeping fans in the seats and optimism alive. Not saying that any team in its right mind would admit their upcoming season didn't look rosy but I know what I see thus far and that's a 7-9 team not getting any better. The return of Mike Brown and Vasher is only going to take us so far...

Would you be complaining about his cap management had we won the superbowl? We relied on a lot of expensive veterans to try to field that team, and last year a lot of those guys hit the end of the road. Would you have preferred to blow up the team last year instead?

Admittedly, winning a Superbowl would have made me content for a number of years. I've been living off 1/26/86 for some time now, actually. Our Superbowl team had every right to come back mostly intact and try again. That didn't work so Angelo did the right thing in cutting Moose, R Brown, and Tait to free up room. I just don't see anything being done with that cap room yet - signing our own guys or otherwise - and I'm guessing you must have your own doubts about getting the likes of Starks and Scott at this point.

[Howling Mad]

http://www.chicagobears.com/news/NewsSt ... ry_id=3146

...well deserved for his defense, but get me some offense. Preferably through FA.