Can you name 15 players in NBA history better than Kobe?

[reppinthe916]

You say you have Kobe at 11, reason being... you have a hard to putting him in the top 10.

Who are your top 10.

If were talking primes then that list is good, there are tons of others, Oscar Robertson obviously belongs.

The thing thats made Kobe great is his ability to dominate pretty much when he entered the league out of high school (since he became a starter the year they traded eddie jones).
- Hes been one of the best players in the league and winning for 10 straight seasons
- He has won 6 rings
- He has career averages of 25/5/5
- Hes scored 81 points in a game
- Lead a starting lineup of Chris Mihm, Kwame Brown, Lamar Odom, and Smush Parker into the playoffs and almost upset the Suns.
-11 All Star Games
- 3 Time All Star Game MVP
-2 Time NBA Finals MVP
-1 Time League MVP
- 8 Time All NBA First Defensive Team
- 2 Time All NBA Second Defensive Team
- 8 Time All NBA First Team
- 2 Time All NBA Second Team
- 2 Time All NBA Third Team (14 All NBA Teams Total)
- 4 Seasns without missing a game
- 2 Time Scoring Champion
- 31 Years of Age!!!

Thats hard to top, and you have to think hes got another 5 years left in him of good basketball.

argument destroyed

[Lakers05]

Kobe's impact is about equal to Barkley's, so anyone that has had a better career than Barkley gets my vote. That list is:

1) Wilt
2) Hakeem
3) Kareem
4) Malone
5) Jordan
6) Duncan
7) Magic
8) Bird
9) Shaq
10) Ewing
11) Russell
12) Kobe
13) Barkley
14) Moses
15) Robinson

So no, there are not 15 players better than Kobe, in the history of the NBA.

[rrravenred]

<snip>
Thats hard to top, and you have to think hes got another 5 years left in him of good basketball.

Dunno about that. A lotta miles on that body, an obsessive-compulsive approach to skills-acquisition only takes you so far.

[bigrussia]

well he would have two losses to the celtics in the finals where he was favored if perkins doesn't go down.... and he consistently plays worse in the finals.

jordan
kareem
russell
wilt
bird
magic
duncan
hakeem
shaq

9 players i would take over kobe any day of the week, no questions asked. (even if kobe has great longevity, i would much rather duncan/hakeem/shaq on my team to win rings).

I personally argue that 10th spot between kobe,oscar and west. then i have the huge group of: moses, dr j, robinson, barkley, baylor, hondo, malone, thomas, pettit, garnett, etc. below kobe (and west/robertson obviously)

[Warspite]

You say you have Kobe at 11, reason being... you have a hard to putting him in the top 10.

Who are your top 10.

If were talking primes then that list is good, there are tons of others, Oscar Robertson obviously belongs.

The thing thats made Kobe great is his ability to dominate pretty much when he entered the league out of high school (since he became a starter the year they traded eddie jones).
- Hes been one of the best players in the league and winning for 10 straight seasons (DrJ for +10)
- He has won 5 rings (corrected) (DrJ 3 rings)
- He has career averages of 25/5/5 (DrJ 24/8/4)
- Hes scored 81 points in a game (48pts in a Finals game)
- Lead a starting lineup of Chris Mihm, Kwame Brown, Lamar Odom, and Smush Parker into the playoffs and almost upset the Suns. (look up the 1976 Nets that team won a title)
-11 All Star Games (DrJ 16)
- 3 Time All Star Game MVP (DrJ 2)
-2 Time NBA Finals MVP (DrJ 2)
-1 Time League MVP (Dr J 4)
- 8 Time All NBA First Defensive Team (Didnt have all Def teams 1st 6yrs)
- 2 Time All NBA Second Defensive Team (NA Didnt have the award)
- 8 Time All NBA First Team (DrJ 9)
- 2 Time All NBA Second Team (DrJ 2)
- 2 Time All NBA Third Team (14 All NBA Teams Total) (DrJ 12 time 1st or 2nd team)
- 4 Seasns without missing a game (DrJ 5)
- 2 Time Scoring Champion (DrJ 3)
- 31 Years of Age!!!

Thats hard to top, and you have to think hes got another 5 years left in him of good basketball.

Actualy no it not hard to top but since DrJ didnt play for the Lakers you dont know who he is.

[Optimism Prime]

You say you have Kobe at 11, reason being... you have a hard to putting him in the top 10.

Who are your top 10.

If were talking primes then that list is good, there are tons of others, Oscar Robertson obviously belongs.

~Resume~

Thats hard to top, and you have to think hes got another 5 years left in him of good basketball.

That's hard to top when it's the only one you list.

Michael Jordan:
Obsessive need to win/destroy the competition. Six titles as first option. Career averages of 30/6/5. Has scored 69 points in a game (to go along with 18 rebounds and 6 assists). 14-time all-star, 3-time ASG MVP, 6-time Finals MVP, 5-time NBA MVP, 9 All-Defense selections, 11 All-NBA selections (second team as a rookie), Rookie of the Year, DPOY, AP Player of the Year, John R. Wooden Award, Naismith Men's College Player of the Year Award, 9 seasons without missing a game, 10-time scoring leader, 3-time leader in steals, 2-time leader in mpg, 4th all-time in WS, 1st all-time in WS/48, league-best PER 7 straight years, all-time PER leader.

Wilt Chamberlain:
Two titles. Career averages of 30/22/4. Has scored 100 points in a game. 13-time all-star, 1 ASG MVP, 4-time MVP, 1-time Finals MVP, 2-time all-defense, 7 all-NBA teams (as the only player at his position; not going up for two guard spots on the ballot), Final Four Most Outstanding Player, Rookie of the Year, 9 seasons without missing a game, Averaged 50/25 one season, led league in: points (7x), rebounds (11x), assists (1x), FG% (9x), mpg (8x)...

You get the idea. I could theoretically do that for each player, but I've got better things to do.

Point being: Posting resumes in a vacuum--just like highlight reels--do nothing to make your argument.

[Laimbeer]

Alright I'ma give this a shot...In no definitive order so nobody get their panties in a bunch

1.Jordan
2.Chamberlain
3.KJ
4.Magic
5.Larry
6.Dr.J
7.Shaq
8.Duncan
9.Russel
10.Hakeem
11. Jerry West
12.Oscar
13.Moses
14.Karl Malone
15.Charles Barkley

I think I could feel comfortable arguing this list....Malone is number 2 in points all time and 6th in rebounds. Won two MVPs. Known as one of the greates power forwards to ever play the game.....As far as Oscar, 9th all time in points and 5th in assists. Is only player in NBA history to average a triple-double for an entire season. Won the NBA Finals in 1970-1971 and has won one NBA MVP....Moses was beast, 6th all time in points, 5th in rebounds, and 21st in blocks and was a three time MVP and won the NBA Finals and Finals MVP in 1983....Charles is pushing BUT a case can be made he was one of four NBA players to have 20,000 points, 10,000 rebounds, and 4,000 assists...with a league MVP

Now a few of these players don't have NBA championships but I can easily argue that they ran into the GOAT..which sucks but nobody was topping Jordan so that can't be held against them...Jordan was unstoppable....as stated in the Reggie documentary "When Jordan retired, a new sense of wave came over, everybody felt like they had a chance..the league was wide open" LOL...you can't hold that against anybody

Now I pushed it alittle but nonethless these players have great resumes

You can argue anything - but are all those guys better than Kobe, yes or no?

[Queen James]

Alright I'ma give this a shot...In no definitive order so nobody get their panties in a bunch

1.Jordan
2.Chamberlain
3.KJ
4.Magic
5.Larry
6.Dr.J
7.Shaq
8.Duncan
9.Russel
10.Hakeem
11. Jerry West
12.Oscar
13.Moses
14.Karl Malone
15.Charles Barkley

I think I could feel comfortable arguing this list....Malone is number 2 in points all time and 6th in rebounds. Won two MVPs. Known as one of the greates power forwards to ever play the game.....As far as Oscar, 9th all time in points and 5th in assists. Is only player in NBA history to average a triple-double for an entire season. Won the NBA Finals in 1970-1971 and has won one NBA MVP....Moses was beast, 6th all time in points, 5th in rebounds, and 21st in blocks and was a three time MVP and won the NBA Finals and Finals MVP in 1983....Charles is pushing BUT a case can be made he was one of four NBA players to have 20,000 points, 10,000 rebounds, and 4,000 assists...with a league MVP

Now a few of these players don't have NBA championships but I can easily argue that they ran into the GOAT..which sucks but nobody was topping Jordan so that can't be held against them...Jordan was unstoppable....as stated in the Reggie documentary "When Jordan retired, a new sense of wave came over, everybody felt like they had a chance..the league was wide open" LOL...you can't hold that against anybody

Now I pushed it alittle but nonethless these players have great resumes

You can argue anything - but are all those guys better than Kobe, yes or no?

Haha, not even close... that list is terrible...

[TrueLAfan]

I think it depends on where you put Kobe in group B. I think there's a consensus (although I'm not 100% with it) that you've got

Jordan
Kareem
Wilt
Russell
Magic
Bird

as a Top 6. From there, it gets heavy. There are about 7-10 people in a gorup that have strong cases; I'm thinking

Oscar Robertson
Jerry West
Julius Erving
Moses Malone
Karl Malone
Hakeem Olajuwon
Shaquille O'Neal
Tim Duncan
Kobe Bryant

...with guys like Kevin Garnett, Bob Pettit, Elgin Baylor a notch below that.

To get 15 ahead of Kobe, you'd pretty much have to say everybody in Group B is ahead of him. I wouldn't say that; I don't think many people would. I'd say he's somewhere around the middle in that group. Personally, I'd take Hakeem, Shaq, Duncan, and Julius over Kobe, with West being close to a dead heat. But I think it would be really hard to choose 15 players to put over Kobe. 5--easily. 10--maybe/probably. 15--no. The over/under is probably around 10 or 11.

[wallflower]

Better maybe? Greater hell no. Some of you guys are just biased and hating its obvious. Tim's got a pretty sober post but Warpsite saying Mcadoo or Hondo? lol? Thats like saying you'd draft them over Magic. I hope your not that crazy. Even Cool saying Nash or whatever its like wow. You can compare some people to Kobe but thats a real stretch.

Kobe might not play like how you like him to play but his results speak for themselves. Maybe only 15-20 players can appropriatly be compared to him. Mcadoo? Bill? His longevity defeinitly counts more then their peaks. Consistency is what matters most in professional sports not fluke seasons.

And to people discounting his achievements for being "fortunate". Wow! Im going to start putting asterisks around all the great players because they were all pretty lucky to win (Magic coin toss, Keem Jordan retiring, Bird gifted two HoFers). Success is given to those who are prepare for luck.

[crnulus]

The biggest problem with giving kobe top 15 is that we have no idea if he would have won anything in the three peat without shaq.

[erudite23]

I don't think Kobe is top 15, I might not put him top 20. He's never been the legit best player in the league. He isn't a highly efficient scorer or terribly impressive passer. I don't think that winning 5 rings puts you anywhere on the All-Time great player list, because if you take guys like TMac, Bernard, Carmelo, 'Nique or Melo and put them in Kobe's situation early in the 2000s, those teams still win at least 2 championships, and potentially 4 (since Kobe's out of control ego was largely to blame for the implosion of the 2004 team).

I just don't see it. The case for Kobe is essentially that he has scored a lot of points and played a ton of games while benefiting from playing for a team that seems to get gifted one great big man a decade. Sure, his accomplishments count for something, but he doesn't pass the eye test. I don't think prime Kobe was better than prime Nique or prime TMac. I just think he's one of the most over rated All Time players in NBA history. He's a phenomenal player, but when you are comparing him to the best of the best, I don't think his high volume, middling efficient game passes the test.

[Jimmy76]

if you need to see the real impact value of Kobe's scoring 2006 is as good an example as any (brought up way to often but w/e)

7th ranked offense with Odom being the only other serious offensive positive on the team

what a player is doing for a teams offense (and defense, and rebounding differential, and turnover differential) is all that really matters, and kobe does a hell of a lot

[mademan]

Prime Kobe is one of the most underrated players ever imo. People spout junk like "he's never been the clear-cut best player in the league". What is this nonsense? I swear, only on realgm was this even up for discussion. If you were to ask any knowledgeable player, gm, coach, broadcaster or sports head in 06/07 or 07/08, they would say kobe is the best without flinching. People were arguing that this guy was a top 3 player in 2001, seriously. Think about that; thats 10 years where it was arguable that he was a top 3 player in the league. 10 years, 5 championships, 7 final appearances; that is dominance.

And the Kobe's cast is not any more talented that Pierces, or Melo's or Dirk's, or even Nash's. Jordan had Pippen, but because Kobe has Gasol we have to "wonder what he would've done without him"? GTFO

[Wavy Q]

The biggest problem with giving kobe top 15 is that we have no idea if he would have won anything in the three peat without shaq.

[TheBoss333]

First Tier:MJ, Kareem, Wilt, Magic,Bird
2nd Tier:Shaq,Duncan,Malone,Kobe,Barkley

I have kobe 9th on my list

[ItsMillerTime]

Players who were clearly better, or accomplished more than Kobe (no particular order)

MJ
KAJ
Russell
Bird
Magic
Wilt
Shaq
Duncan
Hakeem
Dr. J
West
Mailman
Moses
Robinson
Mikan
Cousy
Havlichek
Lebron
Barkely

[NO-KG-AI]

Peak?

[wallflower]

I don't think Kobe is top 15, I might not put him top 20. He's never been the legit best player in the league. He isn't a highly efficient scorer or terribly impressive passer. I don't think that winning 5 rings puts you anywhere on the All-Time great player list, because if you take guys like TMac, Bernard, Carmelo, 'Nique or Melo and put them in Kobe's situation early in the 2000s, those teams still win at least 2 championships, and potentially 4 (since Kobe's out of control ego was largely to blame for the implosion of the 2004 team).

I just don't see it. The case for Kobe is essentially that he has scored a lot of points and played a ton of games while benefiting from playing for a team that seems to get gifted one great big man a decade. Sure, his accomplishments count for something, but he doesn't pass the eye test. I don't think prime Kobe was better than prime Nique or prime TMac. I just think he's one of the most over rated All Time players in NBA history. He's a phenomenal player, but when you are comparing him to the best of the best, I don't think his high volume, middling efficient game passes the test.

You could play that game with anybody. Walton or Ralph Sampson over Kareem. Pistol over Bird. Zo over Russel. Wade over Jordan. Realgm puts waaay to much emphasis on peaks. If you ask coaches or any owner heck any employer, they'd tell you they value consistency and longevity. Its really crazy how you guys are taking one or two seaons or performances (I call them flukes) as being overall more indicitive of a players ability then say Kobe's decade long sustained excellence. Its like jeez Darius Miles once scored 40 points in a game was he ever in the discussion for GOAT or best player in the game? I hope not.

[mademan]

I don't think Kobe is top 15, I might not put him top 20. He's never been the legit best player in the league. He isn't a highly efficient scorer or terribly impressive passer. I don't think that winning 5 rings puts you anywhere on the All-Time great player list, because if you take guys like TMac, Bernard, Carmelo, 'Nique or Melo and put them in Kobe's situation early in the 2000s, those teams still win at least 2 championships, and potentially 4 (since Kobe's out of control ego was largely to blame for the implosion of the 2004 team).

I just don't see it. The case for Kobe is essentially that he has scored a lot of points and played a ton of games while benefiting from playing for a team that seems to get gifted one great big man a decade. Sure, his accomplishments count for something, but he doesn't pass the eye test. I don't think prime Kobe was better than prime Nique or prime TMac. I just think he's one of the most over rated All Time players in NBA history. He's a phenomenal player, but when you are comparing him to the best of the best, I don't think his high volume, middling efficient game passes the test.

BTW, if we were to take peak, why is Magic so high on everyones list and CP3 is nowhere to be found? How come Lebron isn't top 5, Shaq top 3?