Anthopoulos intent on returning Jays to glory

[victor page]

I agree - if you've got the money, as AA allegedly does, then it doesn't hurt to splash it around as long as you're not blocking a key young player. But I don't like throwing big money at Dunn on a long term deal - there's no telling how fat he can get as he ages. He's as wide as he is tall.

I think throwing money into the bullpen could pay huge dividends but with relievers, it's such a damn crapshoot, one year a guy is solid, the next year he's an absolute turkey. I like the McGowan experiment, it's worth a shot.

[ItsDanger]

Crawford wont play on the turf. Plus the Yankees will top any offer we would give him. So forget about it.

[Marmoset]

I sincerely hope AA does not go on a spending spree this winter.

The Jays that eventually won World Series titles didn't start spending on significant free agents until a) it was obvious that the existing team was already a contender, and b) it became apparent that they needed another couple of players to take the final step.

I want to see this team show that they are close to contending before spending a lot of money, and as much as the team has exceeded expectations this year they aren't at that point yet. Sure, we might have the $$$ to bring some guys in now, but if the core of the team isn't good enough and/or experienced enough yet we will get back into the same cycle where we can never put everything together at the same time. Those veteran players might seem like good deals right now, but what about a couple years down the road? B.J Ryan looked great at first, how did that turn out? Just an example there, some signings will be good and some bad. I just don't think we need to be rolling the dice on big-ticket free agents right now.

It's been demonstrated by the Jays, Leafs and Raptors over the last 20 years that rebuilding too quickly never has a good ending. The Jays appear to have a plan and are taking a long-term approach. Let's not rush it, let's build a solid core that can be a contending team for many years.

[augustine]

It's been demonstrated by the Jays, Leafs and Raptors over the last 20 years that rebuilding too quickly never has a good ending. The Jays appear to have a plan and are taking a long-term approach. Let's not rush it, let's build a solid core that can be a contending team for many years.

First, I would agree with you in the case of the Raptors that you need a slow rebuild. But the sports are different. In basketball you need a couple of super stars, and the only way Toronto can acquire a super star is through getting top draft picks for years on end. Thus, they should be a poor team for years. But baseball is not the same. If you are willing to spend overslot, or pay for international free agents, then you can win the World Series and still pick up some of the best players the next year. In baseball, building a farm system and competing are not mutually exclusive. In basketball you don't even have a farm system, so you can't rebuild and compete at the same time.

Second, the point you are making about building a solid core is a good one. But this is part of my point: if a core matures at the same time (ie, Tampa, or the Jays of the late 80's), then you can build a strong core. But the way the Jays are currently configured, the core is too spread out in terms of age. If we wait for Gose/Hechevarria/Marsinick/Sanchez etc... then that is three years away and Wells is tailing off, and Hill and Lind and Escobar are at the late end of their prime, and Bautista is gone as a FA, and our starters are testing free agent waters. Thus, you need to wait for a new core, but when that core is ready the old core is done again.

My proposal is simple: take the three positions where we have no immediate prospects, and sign a FA. This does not ruin rebuilding plans.

[baulderdash77]

Crawford wont play on the turf. Plus the Yankees will top any offer we would give him. So forget about it.

He plays on turf at Tropicana field right now so is it really an issue?

If we're not willing to go after a relatively young all star fielder, who is the best leadoff hitter & base stealer in all of baseball then who are we willing to go after?

[sule]

Jose Cruz Jr., Candy Maldonado, Shawn Green, Raul Mondesi, Orlando Merced: All players I'd love to have playing RF next year.

[Hendrix]

I sincerely hope AA does not go on a spending spree this winter.

The Jays that eventually won World Series titles didn't start spending on significant free agents until a) it was obvious that the existing team was already a contender, and b) it became apparent that they needed another couple of players to take the final step.

I want to see this team show that they are close to contending before spending a lot of money, and as much as the team has exceeded expectations this year they aren't at that point yet. Sure, we might have the $$$ to bring some guys in now, but if the core of the team isn't good enough and/or experienced enough yet we will get back into the same cycle where we can never put everything together at the same time. Those veteran players might seem like good deals right now, but what about a couple years down the road? B.J Ryan looked great at first, how did that turn out? Just an example there, some signings will be good and some bad. I just don't think we need to be rolling the dice on big-ticket free agents right now.

It's been demonstrated by the Jays, Leafs and Raptors over the last 20 years that rebuilding too quickly never has a good ending. The Jays appear to have a plan and are taking a long-term approach. Let's not rush it, let's build a solid core that can be a contending team for many years.

I agree with you that we shouldnt go for it will we are ready. But what is on the verge of contending? We're currently on pace for a pythagorea w/l of 88 wins. If we wait too much longer guys like Hill, Marcum, Wells etc.. are going to be on the downside of their careers. If we trade our older guys for prospects then are we aiming at 2016 compete? An 88 win team to me seems like a team that is just a notch below competing, and it really doesn;t need to come at the expense of our young guys. Sign Crawford, a 3b's player, and a solid 1st baseman and we're in the thick of it imo.

I don't think the free agent injuury thing like Ryan is much of an excuse. That could happen anytime you're ready to start competing to one of your players. Right now we're on the verge of having a top notch starting rotation. And a whole bunch of really nice position players. Why not just fill out the remaining few posiitions that we need?

[tsherkin]

As long as we spend on what we actually need, that'd be cool.

A better BP would be nice. We're going to lose Buck, so we'll be missing some power. We could use a really good DH. We could definitely use some better contact hitters with good eye's to get on base with BBs.

We probably won't replicate our power from this year, but we'll still have a chunk of it, and the DH will help... and Escobar will help with the OBP angle, but we need some more.

I guess it all depends on who's healthy next year, if Vernon keeps playing like he's got a pair in consecutive seasons, and what happens with Snider and Arrencibia.

We could definitely use a better 3B, though... I want to say we should move Hill if possible for a better glove/contact bat at 2nd, but that feels wrong because he's coming around and isn't SO bad.... but when we were nasty, our defense up the middle was bloody amazing, and Hill doesn't fit that category. Tough call, he's a good player.

I think we're mostly pretty good for starters. But yeah, we shouldn't go all nuts spending next year, not unless we're really in position to go for it.

[satyr9]

To me, if the intention is a return to glory, not just a short window of contention, then there will be no big FA spending this offseason. If you're AA, the only way to get more than a year or two run out of this club is to continue what he's done with trades, the draft, and signings to make the farm system so full of players, it's practically bursting. Only at that point do you start signing FAs. This sounds counter intuitive, since what could you need if you have such a stacked farm?

However, to me it's about the issues of working for Rogers (and please remember there's a pretty enormous difference between being owned by a corporation and an individual). AA needs to continue the strategy of producing above .500, but not really AL East competitive squads that give them a profit while spending on youth to generate goodwill and confidence. Ask for x while promising y and exceed expectations, then repeat. He wants to ask them for things that pay off. Smaller budgets and smaller successes this year and next and maybe the year after that and only once he's got so many assets it'd be hard to screw it all up does he ask for the money to fill out the big league club. He doesn't need to convince us, he needs to convince stakeholders and accountants and tv executives and whoever else.

This way, unlike JP and his big offseason, when AA asks for large amounts of money he's in the best position possible to produce results that actually bring people to the park. If you attempt to cut the corner and jump the queue it's pretty likely you'll hit the same heights that JP did. To me, the delay will not be about when the Jays might conceivably contend, because I'll admit they appear pretty close right now, but AA can delay, hopefully frustrate us message board types and generate a little chatter about how close the team is for another year or two, and then increase budgets when success is as likely as possible.

Obviously, there's risk in any scenario and lots could go wrong with the club in the next year or two to delay the project even further, but in light of the title of the thread, if glory is the real goal here, the money won't be shelled out next year, 'cause the longer AA can deliver good teams on smaller budgets and stock the farm, the better chance and leeway he has convincing Rogers to give him more later to allow for true competition.

As for the timing of prospects and the current successful group, if you're AA you can't worry about it if you're going for perennial contention. You need to build every level so it's stacked and you'll use your excesses that get blocked to trade for what you don't have and continue to keep the low minors overflowing.

Also, look at the upside of no risk FAs like Agone and Buck. You'll never turn a huge FA acquisition into a tradeable commodity, because their salaries are too high. You may sign the right one who plays great, but they aren't really moveable (why would you want to really, but IMO this part of Jays history is all about flexibility). Trust the scouting; Continue to make the smaller deal to fill current holes and find the guy who can have a career year. Sure, AA won't hit as often as he did last offseason (Seriously, he had a perfect buy low offseason and it can't be replicated too often), but the focus still has to be on keeping a quality and intriguing product on the field, both for the fans and development (IMO it's much harder to teach good young talent if you're losing 100 games), while continuing to make every single farm club so full of high-end talent that every other GM in baseball starts drooling when they look at your boxscores. I don't see any real alternative if you're trying to get the Jays name back in the mix for the AL East every year.

Sorry for the long and, most likely, repetitive post.

[LBJSeizedMyID]

But honestly, if we were to spend some money this offseason on Dunn, Crawford and a Closer, we could be in contention next year. Is he/Rogers gonna fork out that much money? I doubt it. So, we are back to the same problem. I hope I am wrong. But the truth is, we have no 1B prospects or OF prospects coming down the pipes for years, so why not go big in free agency at those positions. The only other alternative is to be mediocre there for years, and that does not lead to championship teams. It will be interesting.

I more or less agree. If we picked up Crawford @ $15million per plus a DH and we could be the top offense in baseball or at least top 3.

Glenn can be very good if deployed properly (no back to back days) so we could be ok there.

JP tried this philosophy, and it set the franchise back and ultimately his job. If your scenario held true, where would you play Snider, Lind & Bautista? Bautista has more value at RF than 3B in my opinion. Who's your #1 starter? No one in our staff is a true #1 guy yet. AA might add one free agent, but I highly doubt this team is going to go on a splurge.