MN/MEM/LAL

[shrink]

Look it doesn't matter if I want Brewer here or you want Brewer here ... it looks like Kahn is planning on a future without Brewer.

With our lottery pick, we passed on Cousins to add Wes Johnson, who'll be paid $17.5 mil for the next four years. With our other 1st, we added Martell Webster, who'll be paid $10 mil for the next two years. Heck, we even used our #30 pick on Lazar Hayward, and we already have Wayne Ellington. And of course, Michael Beasley will get some minutes at SF as well.

I think the chances that we're going to give Corey Brewer a longterm offer next year is low, and its actively being planned for him being gone. We heavily invested in these new guys, and that will require playing time -- clearly some of it at Brewer's expense. He deserves better than the Wolves will provide.

If Kahn's future plans don't include Brewer, I don't want to lose him for nothing.

[Biff Cooper]

Look it doesn't matter if I want Brewer here or you want Brewer here ... it looks like Kahn is planning on a future without Brewer.

With our lottery pick, we passed on Cousins to add Wes Johnson, who'll be paid $17.5 mil for the next four years. With our other 1st, we added Martell Webster, who'll be paid $10 mil for the next two years. Heck, we even used our #30 pick on Lazar Hayward, and we already have Wayne Ellington. And of course, Michael Beasley will get some minutes at SF as well.

I think the chances that we're going to give Corey Brewer a longterm offer next year is low, and its actively being planned for him being gone. We heavily invested in these new guys, and that will require playing time -- clearly some of it at Brewer's expense. He deserves better than the Wolves will provide.

If Kahn's future plans don't include Brewer, I don't want to lose him for nothing.

I don't know why Kahn's future plans wouldn't include Brewer. I don't think it's fair to say Brewer doesn't fit in our plans because we have Hayward and Ellington when Brewer is the superior player. It definitely doesn't make sense to say we are stacked at the 2 & 3 to the point where there is no playing time for Brewer, and then go and trade him for X. Henry.

[Swimmer]

Purely speculation crossed with personnal opinion ... and you're entitled to it.

IMO, at some point a team has to stop thining every new kid is better than what they already have and start developing some chemistry. We're already too young and it's not like Henry doesn't have his own set of weaknesses. Heck, he's already balking at his rookie contract.

We also happen to have a few players who see a desperate need for consistency and a chance to build chemistry. Trading away players who've made the committment and shown they can improve their level of performance is an extremely negative experience in the eyes of a team ... and let's not forget that it's a players game...

Lastly, Brewer has proven much more as a player than Rambis as a coach or Kahn as a GM ... if they both make big strides in their jobs, we're good.

Thanks for your reply. I agree with a lot of what you said, but as shrink said, I think we've made a fiscal commitment to Beasley, Webster, and Johnson on the wings. Out of 96 possible minutes at SG/SF, I would think that those guys take up around 80. You could try to shift more of Beasley's minutes to PF, but IMO, that kind of doesn't make sense with the Tolliver and Pekovic signings. In this case, Brewer is a 16 minute SG/SF. Also IMO, he has proven himself to be a better than 16 minute bit player, and will expect to get paid as thus.

Xavier Henry, on the other hand, will be on a multi-year rookie deal. We can give him time to develop, and he can step in at SG eventually, if something in Beasley/Webster/Johnson doesn't work out. (Side note: I don't think his rookie contract is his fault. Memphis isn't treating him fairly.) He doesn't have the financial/minute expectations that Brewer would have, about to sign his first big contract.

[Biff Cooper]

Like Dewey says - at some point you need to start playing with the guys you got and stop trading them for the untapped potential of a new rookie. We've spent several years developing Brewer, and we'd be throwing those years away by trading him now.

Brewer is currently our best option on the court at the SG position, and I don't see how this is a good trade to get rid of him.

[shrink]

Like Dewey says - at some point you need to start playing with the guys you got and stop trading them for the untapped potential of a new rookie. We've spent several years developing Brewer, and we'd be throwing those years away by trading him now.

Brewer is currently our best option on the court at the SG position, and I don't see how this is a good trade to get rid of him.

I'd agree with you if Kahn hadn't spent the three picks in the 2010 draft all on swingmen, then added Beasley.

Do we not play the new guys, so we can keep Brewer's numbers up, and if he improves, hope that we will pay for his bigger new contract? Somebody's getting bench time, and I think it'd be easier to justify on a prospect like Xaviar Henry, who we'd have locked up for four years.

To me, we were driving down the highway to the future, and at the 2010 mile marker, Kahn turned us right, towards the guardrail. I initally wouldn't have advocated turning left, but now I think we need to even ourselves out, because if we keep going right, we'll drive right off the cliff.

[Biff Cooper]

Somebody's getting bench time, and I think it'd be easier to justify on a prospect like Xaviar Henry, who we'd have locked up for four years.

I am far from convinced we should annoint Webster, Johnson, Beasley, Hayward, or Ellington with large amounts of time at the 2/3 positions. I would like to see competition for playing time this year with the best players seeing the court. We've still got full rights on Brewer. I think in a fair competition, Brewer is going to get more than his share of playing time over the other 2/3s on our roster. After last season, it was painfully obvious we needed to upgrade the 2/3 positions (with the possible exception of Brewer), so it made sense for Kahn to address these positions, but I don't think we should confuse this with Kahn and the Wolves giving up on Brewer, and if they are, I am not going to be very happy with them.

[Swimmer]

I mean, we traded a pick for Webster on a multi-year deal, so I would hope we played him a lot. Plus, he does not play as well in limited minutes. Beasley is our best shot at a top player right now, so he will probably get a large portion of our SF minutes. Wes can back up both, and hopefully will get a bunch of minutes, since he was our top pick. Ellington and Hayward won't get much minutes, they'll get whatever's left over. That's not a lot of minutes for Brewer. Conceivably, you are right, though, he might compete for minutes with Webster, though that makes Webster seem like a poor investment.

[So Gutta]

LAL do this to save money.

False.

Buss Vows Not To Reduce Payroll: http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archi ... ce_payroll

[karch34]

Look it doesn't matter if I want Brewer here or you want Brewer here ... it looks like Kahn is planning on a future without Brewer.

With our lottery pick, we passed on Cousins to add Wes Johnson, who'll be paid $17.5 mil for the next four years. With our other 1st, we added Martell Webster, who'll be paid $10 mil for the next two years. Heck, we even used our #30 pick on Lazar Hayward, and we already have Wayne Ellington. And of course, Michael Beasley will get some minutes at SF as well.

I think the chances that we're going to give Corey Brewer a longterm offer next year is low, and its actively being planned for him being gone. We heavily invested in these new guys, and that will require playing time -- clearly some of it at Brewer's expense. He deserves better than the Wolves will provide.

If Kahn's future plans don't include Brewer, I don't want to lose him for nothing.

Agree. I like the deal and the rationale is solid. Brewer is a nice player, but I'd like to get someone like Henry so Ellington isn't our only true SG.

[Dewey]

Kahn acquiring Webster, Johnson, and Hayward is not a signal that Brewer is going to be moved. They were upgrades and Kahn had some success improving the team roster. Getting Rubio to MN and finding a way to acquire an all-star via draft or trade are his only real priorities right now.

He pointed out that youth was a problem for the Wolves and Webster would be a more mature addition versus adding another draft pick, plus, Haywood is a very mature incoming rookie - mentally and physically. Dumped the non-motivated Gomes in the process.

If we expect to run, we need depth to overcome fatigue and injuries ... if we're healthy and fortunate to have 3-4 guys that needing more time, then so be it - we should have the ability to capitalize. Odds are that 1-2 of these guys will prove they have staying power. I see Brewer and Johnson as those two ... Webster right behind them with Ellington and Haywood battling for the last 5-10 minutes.

[Swimmer]

^ I'm not seeing it, in terms of minutes. Through his career, Webster has been consistent in playing better in extended minutes. I expect Beasley to get the majority of SF minutes, Love to get the majority of PF, Darko at C. Pekovic, Tolliver, and spot Beasley minutes will fill up the PF/C roles. That leaves backup minutes at SG and SF for Johnson, Brewer, Ellington, and Hayward. I guess we could do, like:

Webster (25)/Brewer (23)
Beasley (25)/Johnson (23)

or something like that, in terms of minutes, and use Ellington and Hayward to fill in for injuries. IMO, it would make more sense to deal one of the 4, up all their minutes by 3-4, and give the rest to Ellington/Hayward/new guy. Something like:

Webster (28)/Johnson(10)/Ellington(10)
Beasley (30)/Johnson (13)/Hayward(5)

plus or minus. With Xavier:

Webster (28)/Johnson(5)/Henry(15)
Beasley (30)/Johnson (18)


IMO, no one is really unhappy in the latter situations, and we get value out of Brewer, while in the first, someone is bound to complain about minutes.

[Biff Cooper]

Kahn acquiring Webster, Johnson, and Hayward is not a signal that Brewer is going to be moved. They were upgrades and Kahn had some success improving the team roster. Getting Rubio to MN and finding a way to acquire an all-star via draft or trade are his only real priorities right now.

He pointed out that youth was a problem for the Wolves and Webster would be a more mature addition versus adding another draft pick, plus, Haywood is a very mature incoming rookie - mentally and physically. Dumped the non-motivated Gomes in the process.

If we expect to run, we need depth to overcome fatigue and injuries ... if we're healthy and fortunate to have 3-4 guys that needing more time, then so be it - we should have the ability to capitalize. Odds are that 1-2 of these guys will prove they have staying power. I see Brewer and Johnson as those two ... Webster right behind them with Ellington and Haywood battling for the last 5-10 minutes.

I agree completely with this. I don't see Webster as an upgrade over Brewer. They are both going to be good and similar players. I also have a little trouble envisioning Beasley defensively as a near full time small forward.

[Swimmer]

I agree completely with this. I don't see Webster as an upgrade over Brewer. They are both going to be good and similar players. I also have a little trouble envisioning Beasley defensively as a near full time small forward.

Yes, they may be similar/comparable/not an upgrade. But one of them we have to pay for the next few years, and the other one will soon need a pay raise. We don't really have minutes for both to flourish.

If you want to open up some minutes by shifting more Beasley minutes to PF, then you're pretty much cutting out Tolliver's minutes, in which case, what was the point in signing him?

[Biff Cooper]

Yes, they may be similar/comparable/not an upgrade. But one of them we have to pay for the next few years, and the other one will soon need a pay raise. We don't really have minutes for both to flourish.

If you want to open up some minutes by shifting more Beasley minutes to PF, then you're pretty much cutting out Tolliver's minutes, in which case, what was the point in signing him?

I would call Brewer a better player with more upside than Webster, but that is just me. I'm willing to let the players and coaches figure out in practice and on the court who should play - for all postions on the court - not on paper. We've got a roster full of talented but unproven guys that could turn into very nice players, or could prove themselves not ready to contribute. Its good to have a bunch of hungry guys ready to compete with each other for playing time.