Pirates finance documents leaked: it pays to lose!

[Pharmcat]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5484947

keep a cheap roster, collect $$ from the big fish to stay profitable...nice strategy!

this is part of the reason I never bought the sentiment against the yanks, hey atleast they make the finance investment to try to put out a roster every year that can compete

[King_Supreme]

They're not spending money, because they're in rebuilding mode. Before you say, "oh it's Pirates, they're always in rebuild mode", they're under new ownership, and they don't have enough money to get top FA's. Not only that, their team isn't desirable to FAs. What they're doing now makes sense, they have some decent rookies in Pedro Alvarez/Neil Walker/Jose Tabata. With the right drafting and prospects, they can be a sub-500 team in 3-5 years.

[Pharmcat]

They're not spending money, because they're in rebuilding mode. Before you say, "oh it's Pirates, they're always in rebuild mode", they're under new ownership, and they don't have enough money to get top FA's. Not only that, their team isn't desirable to FAs. What they're doing now makes sense, they have some decent rookies in Pedro Alvarez/Neil Walker/Jose Tabata. With the right drafting and prospects, they can be a sub-500 team in 3-5 years.

great improvement there

dont give the teams profit sharing if they aint gonna spend it on the roster

[HCYanks]

Spending for the sake of spending doesn't guarantee anything, especially in the Pirates' current position. The ownership and Neal Huntington have made enough steps forward that i'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt that they'll start spending as they get closer to competitive shape. If they don't, then it's time to call BS. But they spent too much time wallowing in the mud under previous ownership to make any immediate conclusions about the current brass.

[Pharmcat]

im sorry when stuff like this happens:

and cut NL All-Star closer Matt Capps without getting anything in return because he sought a $500,000 raise.

PLUS the fact the nationals then traded him for a catching prospect

makes one really question the motives of the FO and owner

[HCYanks]

They dumped Capps after he had a rough 2009. A questionable roster move? Certainly. But I doubt money was the only factor there.

It just seems reactionary to me to jump down the throats of the Pirates in particular because they have the lowest payroll at the moment, especially when they're still not being as bad about it as, say, Jeffrey Loria, has in the past. Several of the players they've gotten rid of in recent years (Jason Bay, Xavier Nady, Damaso Marte, Ian Snell) have either declined considerably or just not done much since they left the team; it's not like throwing money at them would have helped anything. Jose Bautista is having a great year, but absolutely no one saw that coming.

If you want to end the questionable practices among MLB ownership, just targeting the Pirates won't help much.

[HCYanks]

By the way, the Pirates came out and explained that $20 million that was handed out to ownership:

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10235/1082040-63.stm

Part of it went to pay for the team's ownership taxes and the rest was interest paid on a loan to the Pirates that Bob Nutting made years ago. Meanwhile, the Pirates' '09 profits were down to a much more modest $5.4 million. And yet here they are spending almost 12 million on the draft this year (per that ESPN article).

I see very little pocket lining going on here. The Pirates are a small market team with a limited budget, and they're focusing their resources on exactly where they should be: the farm system.

[King_Supreme]

They're not spending money, because they're in rebuilding mode. Before you say, "oh it's Pirates, they're always in rebuild mode", they're under new ownership, and they don't have enough money to get top FA's. Not only that, their team isn't desirable to FAs. What they're doing now makes sense, they have some decent rookies in Pedro Alvarez/Neil Walker/Jose Tabata. With the right drafting and prospects, they can be a sub-500 team in 3-5 years.

great improvement there

dont give the teams profit sharing if they aint gonna spend it on the roster

That's foolish to expect a rebuilding(when I mean rebuilding, I'm talking about bottom of the barrel) team to be chip contenders in short time. Don't let the Rays fool you, small-market teams takes a lot time. Sure they're getting top draft picks, but some of them may be H.S kids who need to spend 2+ years in the minors, or the rest just don't pan out. As far as revenue sharing, it doesn't necessarily go to rosters, but it can attribute to better training facilites/coaches/etc. Sure it's probable that owners pocket the money, but that's the risk, with giving owners additional money.

Ultimately RS is better than the teams not getting any money, since without it, they would be even more short of funds because of ticket sales(see Bucs, Rays, Marlins, pretty much any SM team). Your posts in this thread, made you seem like you know nothing about the topic you mentioned.

[Pharmcat]

LOL please I know plenty about the topic...SM teams love to moan and b**** bout the big teams spending, but love to collect the RS check and not say anything

btw, the pirates made 27 million in 2007, the same year they didnt draft weiters cuz of his pricetag....just saying

[Pharmcat]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5492093

very interesting...teams have been exposed

receiving 74 mill in RS while posting a 15 mill profit seems a bit excessive

[Zeitgeister]

The Pirates tried to sign phenom prospect Miguel Sano for something like 2.45 mil and reports are that they would have matched and exceeded the 3.15 mil that he eventually signed for with the Twins. If they need to invest money, that's the place to start, they need to build up their farm system.

[mike_miller]

i just to point out the sucess the marlins have had and the high payrolls they have had in the last 5 years.

its only the last 2-3 that have been very low and it has not hurt the on the field product, meanwhile building a new stadium

dont want to see them mentioned in the class of team like the pirates or even the royals

[craig01]

The Rays were notorious "keepers of the pocket change" under their former ownership.

The current ownership stayed that way the first couple of years too as far as not paying any big salaries...including then manager Lou Piniella...., but did however, invest in their scouting and minor league system extensively.

Like the Marlins, A's, the pipeline of excellent talent being developed seems like waves of surplus competent players.

In this soon to be new era of belt tightening, these are the new pioneers....you just have to do it right.

[mike_miller]

^ totally disagree..

i think we are about to see a min payroll tax and rev sharing reform..

[Pharmcat]

i just wondering the motive behind the document leak?

[craig01]

^ totally disagree..

i think we are about to see a min payroll tax and rev sharing reform..

Won't happen anytime soon.

The Yankees, with their Yes Network, won't ever cut any of that pie.

The current luxury tax is effective in some ways, but the small market teams won't ever be able to buy pieces the way the Yankees do.

And quite frankly, is proving to be so-so by results. Much of the Yankee success in the mid/late '90's was built from within their organization.

San Diego, btw, has a $37 million dollar payroll and is challenging NY and Tampa for the best record in baseball. The Rays next year expect to drop into the $60 million range, and should still be contenders.