Retro POY '68-69 (Voting Complete)

[Doctor MJ]

In this thread we'll discuss and vote on the top 5 best player seasons of '68-69.

Trying something new now. Schedule will be Mon-Fri, and Thu-Mon. Typically this will be morning to morning.

Some things to start us off:

NBA
Season Summary http://www.basketball-reference.com/lea ... _1969.html
Playoff Summary http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... _1969.html
Award Voting http://www.basketball-reference.com/awa ... _1969.html
Final Box Score http://webuns.chez-alice.fr/finals/1969.htm

ABA
Season Summary http://www.basketball-reference.com/lea ... _1969.html
Playoff Summary http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... _1969.html

Topics
Russell wins one last time
West drops jaws
Bullets' turnaround, then upset in a sweep

[bastillon]

I'd like to see elgee's numbers per possession. I remember estimating this in the past and Celtics completely dominated defensively. basically you had poor-to-mediocre offense and complete dominance on D. that's why I think Russell should be #1.

Chamberlain has no business being in the discussion. joined already stacked Lakers team that didn't improve with him at all and choked in the finals as always, peaking in that 2-pt no-show.

West is high, as usual. interesting to see Unseld and Reed too.

[ThaRegul8r]

*cracks knuckles*

I said I would be very vocal when this time came, and though I have been contributing, I will have a lot to say, that I think will be helpful to the project.

Now, let me put out the case for Russell, so that people making their decisions will be operating from the facts.

Russell, at the end of his career, was fourth in the league in the MVP voting, behind Wes Unseld, Willis Reed, and Billy Cunningham. Led the league in defensive win shares and was First Team All-Defense in the first year of its existence.

Russell suffered severely sprained ligaments in his right knee in a 95-94 loss to New York at Boston Garden. With New York leading 95-92, Russell was the recipient of a pass and scored on a layup. He fell hard to the floor and writhed in pain as the Knicks ran out the last 12 seconds. He was carried on a stretcher to the dressing room and transferred to University Hopsital, where X-rays were negative. He would be out for a week, and Celtics GM Red Auerbach announced his return to the bench on a temporary basis. Boston lost five straight, their longest losing streak since the 1949-50 season. Russell returned February 9, 1969 against the 76ers, helped them overcome a 10-point deficit, blocked two shots and then dunked a shot with two seconds remaining to tie the game and send it into overtime, where after the Celtics took the lead he had made a key free throw and a key steal to preserve it as Boston won 122-117.

Boston, uncomfortable down in fourth place, must worry about two specters sneaking up from behind, fifth-place Cincinnati and old age. John Havlicek in 1962 was the last rookie of consequence to make the Celtics. Bill Russell is 35, Bailey Howell is 32 and hampered by an injury and Sam Jones is 35 and playing his last season. Still, all MVP talk about Reed, Frazier, Cunningham and Unseld aside, Russell is the man who could bring Boston back. After Russell's magnificent posthospital game against the 76ers, Havlicek told The Boston Globe : "It's a damn shame you have to place so much of a load on one person. They keep saying this guy is the key, that guy is the key. There's only one key—him [Russell]—and he's only human, like everybody else."

Celtics finished fourth in the Eastern Division, and faced Philadelphia in the postseason, who won 55 games without Chamberlain—only seven games less than they did with him the previous year, and the same amount of games as the Lakers with Chamberlain, West and Baylor. Billy Cunningham averaged 24.8 points (3rd in the league), 12.8 rebounds (10th) and 3.5 assists in 40.8 minutes per game (9th), was First Team All-NBA and third in the MVP voting.

1969 Eastern Division Semifinals - Boston Celtics (48-34) vs. Philadelphia 76ers (54-28)

Boston “surprised” Philadelphia, winning Game 1 114-100. Havlicek scored a game-high 35 points, Sam Jones had 20, Bailey Howell and Larry Siegfried 16, and Russell “scored only two points, but he blocked 13 shots, rebounded 15 times, had eight assists, and intimidated the 76ers into one of their worst shooting nights of the season, 35.2% [38-for-108]” (The Milwaukee Journal, March 27, 1969).

If you look at the statistics, you have to wonder how the Celtics managed to win.

The 76ers out-rebounded the Celtics, 75-51, and took 108 shots to 91 for Boston. They out-hustled the winners off the offensive boards, 29-9.

How did they lose?

76ers’ Coach Jack Ramsey had the answer in two words — Bill Russell.

The 34-year old Russell scored only two points, but his 6-foot-10 frame was the difference as Boston took a 1-0 lead in the best-of-7 series.

Russell blocked 13 shots, took down 15 rebounds, handed out eight assists, and more importantly, intimidated the 76ers into one of their worst shooting nights of the season.

Philadelphia shot 35.2 per cent from the field.

Ramsay gave all the credit to Russell, the player-coach of the Celtics. “In my opinion, he was the difference. He’s always the difference when we play Boston.”

While Russell intimidated Philadelphia shooters, Boston shot 43-for-91 (47.3%) from the floor. Boston led 60-47 at the half, and the 76ers never got closer than five. Billy Cunningham led Philadelphia with 27. Hal Greer shot 3-for-21 (14.3%). Havlicek held Bill Bradley to 10 points, and Howell and Nelson held DeBusschere to nine (The Southeast Missourian, April 9, 1969).

Boston won Game 2 134-103 in Philadelphia, Bailey Howell with 29, John Havlicek with 24, Larry Siegfried with 20, Satch Sanders with 18 and Emmette Bryant with 15. Boston led 55-54 at the half, despite Russell picking up four fouls, and the ejection of Sam Jones, Red Auerbach, and publicist Howie McHugh during a first quarter argument.

Boston won Game 3 125-118 to take a 3-0 series lead. Sam Jones led Boston with 26 points, and John Havlicek scored 23, 19 in the first half. Russell warned, “I remember what happened last year,” referring to Boston coming back from a 3-1 deficit against Philadelphia last year.

Philadelphia won Game 4, 119-116, behind Archie Clark’s game-high 29 points on 13-for-18 shooting (72.2%), and Hal Greer’s 24 points (8-15 FG) and game-high seven assists. Darrell Imhoff scored 22 before fouling out, and Billy Cunningham had 19. Havlicek led Boston with 28, Bailey Howell scored 22, Sam Jones 19, and Russell scored 14 points and grabbed 29 rebounds, fouled Darrell Imhoff out of the game, and held reserve center George Wilson scoreless. “I've got to feel optimistic about our chances,” said coach Jack Ramsay. “That was the best game Russell has played in the series. And we still beat him. If that was his best game—and it was—and if we won, how can I but feel optimistic about our chances?” (Beaver County Times, April 2, 1969). Boston shot 46-for-113 from the floor (40.7%) and 24 of 41 from the line (58.5%) to Philadelphia's 46-for-90 from the floor (51.1%) and 27 of 38 from the line (71.1%). Larry Siegfried, who led the league in free throw percentage at 86.4 percent, was 4 of 9 (44.4%). “We got 23 more shots than they did and three more free throws,” Russell said. “You can't ask for any more than that” (Lewiston Evening Journal, April 2, 1969).

Boston won Game 5 93-90 to win the series 4-1.

1969 Eastern Division Semifinals - Boston Celtics (48-34) vs. New York Knicks (55-27)

Boston, an aging team troubled by injuries and the severe travel conditions of the NBA schedule, appears revitalized for the playoffs, which normally offer at least a day’s rest between games. As usual, center Bill Russell, their player-coach, holds the key to Boston’s success, and he dominated the Philadelphia series.

Boston won Game 1 108-100. John Havlicek led Boston with 25 points, Bailey Howell had 21, Sam Jones 18, and 6-foot guard Emmette Bryant played 40 minutes, scored 13 points, grabbed 11 rebounds and passed for eight assists. “Boston’s team defense was one of the best I’ve seen this year, but Emmette was the key to the game,” said Willis Reed (St. Petersburg Times, Apr. 7, 1969). Russell played the full 48 minutes and grabbed 16 rebounds. Walt Frazier led New York with a career-high 34 points. “Frazier can’t beat us by himself if we can hold the other guys down,” said Bailey Howell. Willis Reed had 24, “but was controlled by Russell.”

Like vintage wine, the Boston Celtics improve with age.

Spurred by 35-year-old player-coach Bill Russell, the Celtics, seeking their 11th National Basketball Association playoff championship in 13 years, took another step towards attaining that goal Sunday afternoon by beating the Knicks 108-100.

Unfortunately for the Knicks, who were coming off an impressive four-game sweep of Baltimore in their playoff opener, Russell wants another championship and he doesn’t intend to let New York stand in his way.

In Game 2, Russell grabbed 29 rebounds, scored 14 points and “was his usual intimidating self on defense” (The Southeast Missourian, Apr. 10, 1969) to lead Boston to a 112-97 win.

BOSTON — (AP) — The Boston Celtics, led by player-coach Bill Russell threw up a tight early defense and shackled ice-cold New York in the first half enroute to a 112-97 victory over the Knicks and a 2-0 lead in their Eastern Division final series in the National Basketball Association playoffs.

Russell, who has led the Celtics to 10 championships in 12 years,was the dominating factor as he virtually intimidated the New York sharpshooters.

Russell had 11 of his 14 points and 21 of his 29 rebounds in the first two periods. With the Celtics in front 95-69 and nearly 8½ minutes remaining Russell went to the bench for a well deserved rest as a capacity crowd of 14,933 gave him a standing ovation.

The Knicks shot 3-for-23 in the first quarter (13.0%), and were 9-for-47 at the half (19.1%). “Russell is a great defensive player—he’s the greatest defensive center who ever lived,” said Knicks coach Red Holzman.

New York won Game 3 101-91, Frazier leading the Knicks with 26 points, 15 in the first half. “We were embarrassed last night in Boston,” Frazier said. “If a guy has any pride at all, he’d be up for this one” (The Milwaukee Journal, Apr. 11, 1969). Bill Bradley had 18 points and “did a fine defensive job on John Havlicek, holding him to eight points.” “Player-Coach Bill Russell […] did his best to bring Boston back with 10 of his 16 points in the final quarter and a total of 20 rebounds […].” The Knicks shot 50 percent from the field, “avoiding the shadow of Russell, who intimidated them terribly when he wasn’t blocking shots Wednesday night.” Frazier said, “The difference was we took our outside shots and didn’t challenge Russell” (The Tuscaloosa News, April 11, 1969). “It was a critical game,” said Willis Reed. “If we didn’t win, they’d be up 3-0. But now we’re right back in there” (The Rock Hill Herald, Apr. 3, 1969). Russell led Boston with 16, and Bailey Howell, Sam Jones and Emmette Bryant had 15 each.

Boston won Game 4 97-96 to go up 3-1, Russell leading the way with 21 points and 23 rebounds. Havlicek had 19 and Don Nelson 15. Russell scored a crucial basket with 1:45 left to give Boston a 95-92 lead, and two free throws by Willis Reed cut the margin to one. The Celtics committed a 24-second violation with 1:06 left, and both teams missed shots with the Knicks grabbing a rebound with 34 seconds left and calling timeout with 25 seconds left.

Boston’s mighty defense, led by Player-Coach Bill Russell, was the difference as the Celtics edged the Knicks 97-96 Sunday before a crowd of 13,506 and a national television audience.

[…]

Leading 95-94, the defending NBA champion Celtics threw up a tight defense in the last 25 seconds.

The Knicks brought the ball into play, intending to have Walt Frazier take a shot. However, Frazier, confronted by John Havlicek, couldn’t find shooting room and passed to big Willis Reed at the free throw line.

Reed didn’t have any room either as he turned to face Russell. His forced shot was short and the ball went out of bounds off a Knick.

“We expected the ball to go to Frazier,” Russell said. “We decided to take Sam Jones out, put Havlicek on Frazier and sent in Satch Sanders to cover Bradley. Havlicek did a tremendous job on Frazier. It was a key defensive play.”

New York then fouled former Knick Emmette Bryant with six seconds left. In an unusual move, the Celtics called time out to set up more strategy, the confidence showed.

“I didn’t know what to think when we called time,” Bryant said. “Usually, the other team does it, hoping to upset the shooter. Then all I hear was ‘After he makes his two free throws ... after he makes his two free throws.’ You know, something like that can become contagious.”

Bryant then cased free throws to nail down the decision. The Celtics let the Knicks have a basket with two seconds left.

“I don’t like these kind of games,” said Russell, who led the Celtics with 21 points and 23 rebounds in a duel spiced by 14 ties. “They’re aggravating. They’re the kind of games that can give you an ulcer.”

Willis Reed led New York with 22 points—12 in the first quarter, and Frazier and Dave DeBusschere had 21 apiece.

New York won Game 5 112-104 to cut the series to 3-2. Reed led New York with 24 points and 11 rebounds, Frazier had 23 points, a team-high 12 rebounds and nine assists, DeBusschere had 20, and Dick Barnett had 20. Havlicek led Boston with a game-high 29 points, Russell had 25 points, Bailey Howell had 22, and Don Nelson had 18. Boston outshot New York 52.5 percent to 44.3 percent (Toledo Blade, Apr. 14, 1969), but New York forced Boston into 17 turnovers at the half—leading 60-46—and 25 for the game. “Aggressive defense,” Frazier said. “We knew we had to go out and win and we knew we had to do it with defense” (Toledo Blade, Apr. 14, 1969). “Both Celtic losses have come in the second game of back-to-back contests on consecutive days” (The Pittsburgh Press, Apr. 14, 1969). “In the backcourt, the Celtics were really hurt. Sam Jones, retiring at the end of the series, played 23 minutes and scored just three points. Em Bryant, a former Knick lost in expansion, played 34 minutes and scored only four. The Knicks had a 42-7 edge in the backcourt since Walt Frazier scored 23 and Dick Barnett added 19” (The Deseret News, Apr. 15, 1969). “Walt Frazier was the only one who’d admit what the rest of the players tried to ignore after the game, He said, ‘Some of the players are beginning to show their age,’ but then he seemed to realize he’d said the wrong thing and quickly added, ‘but they still show a lot of fire out there and can run a lot’” (The Pittsburgh Press, Apr. 14, 1969).

Boston won Game 6 106-105 to eliminate the Knicks and advance to the NBA Finals. Sam Jones scored 29 on 13-for-31 shooting (41.9%)—“after being held to an 11-point average in the first five games” (Ellensburg Daily Record, Apr. 21, 1969), John Havlicek had 28, Emmette Bryant 19, and Russell had 12 points, 21 rebounds and six blocked shots despite picking up his fifth foul with three minutes left in the fourth quarter (Gettysburg Times, April 19, 1969). “I’m glad that’s over,” said Russell. “The Knicks were tough, a real good team. We had to go all out” (The Sumter Daily Item, Apr. 19, 1969).

BOSTON (AP) — The Boston Celtics, backed by old pros Sam Jones, John Havlicek and unheralded Emmette Bryant, charged into the championship round of the National Basketball Association playoffs with a 106-105 victory over the New York Knicks Friday night to take the Eastern Division finals 4-2.

Jones, humiliated as he managed just 12 points in the fourth and fifth games of the best-of-7 series, regained his old scoring touch, connecting for 29 points in a brilliant shooting exhibition.

Havlicek, going the entire distance, his for 28 points, including four on two crucial baskets in the closing seconds as the Celtics staved off a furious New York finish.

Bryant, a former Knick who spent most of the regular season as a reserve Boston backcourt specialist, came through in the clutch, hitting for 19 points.

[…]

Player-coach Bill Russell, who started the Celtics to their basketball dynasty, again turned in a magnificent performance, scoring 12 points and grabbing 21 rebounds in 48 minutes of action.

The United Press International wrote, “Knick Coach Red Holzman had to virtually fight his way into the Celtic dressing room to congratulate the Celtics and said to Russell, ‘You were great’” (The Bulletin, Apr. 18, 1969).

(cont.)

[bastillon]

great stuff. thanks. I thought I'd be the only guy defending Russell.

(Elgee I'm still waiting for those pace-adj numbers )

[ThaRegul8r]

NBA Finals – Boston Celtics (48-34) vs. Los Angeles Lakers (55-27)

Going into the Finals, the Celtics faced the Los Angeles Lakers. Jerry West averaged 25.9 points, 4.3 rebounds and 6.9 assists in 39.2 minutes per game and was All-Star Game MVP, Second Team All-NBA and Second Team All-Defense; Elgin Baylor averaged 24.8 points [4th], 10.6 rebounds and 5.4 assists [10th] in 40.3 minutes per game, was First Team All-NBA and finished fifth in the MVP voting; Wilt Chamberlain averaged 20.5 points on 58.3 percent shooting, 21.1 rebounds and 4.5 assists in a league-leading 45.3 minutes per game. Chamberlain was coming off back-to-back MVP seasons, and Baylor finished third in the MVP voting in 1967-68.

April 28, 1969
...and That Old Celtics Wheel Rolls Again
Boston goes into the finals against Los Angeles graying with age, with no backup man for Russell and its best shooter ready to retire, but that was also the sad situation before the New York series
Frank Deford

They are always around at playoff time, the former Celtics, the alumni—back to visit. It seems almost the way it is when Tex Ritter calls the honor roll of oldtimers in Hillbilly Heaven, only with the Celtics, of course, this is invariably a happy time. After all the who-shot-John that goes on from October to March, the Celtics just go out and win the playoffs. So the old players come in and joke with Red Auerbach, the headmaster emeritus, and shake the few remaining familiar hands on the team. Every year, though, each alumnus appears as a somewhat hazier image—like hearing an old song that you know was very important to you at one time but now you can't remember precisely why. There are so many old Celtics who figured in so many old championships.

Bill Russell sits at his locker and tries to find new ways to explain the Celtics, because they have just beaten the New York Knicks for their 12th Eastern playoff title in 13 years. Russell goes along with the ritual, but the odd thing is that he best described what was to become the Celtic experience before he ever got to Boston. He was still at the University of San Francisco, and K.C. Jones had been lost to the team for the NCAA tournament. Someone asked what effect this would have on the team. "You change the spokes," Russell said, "but the wheel keeps rolling."

And that is the way it is. Some Celtics play alongside Russell, some sit on the bench, some retire and come back to shake hands. The spokes change. Each supporting star leaves, as Sam Jones will now and the soothsayers forecast doom. The wheel keeps rolling.

Win the playoffs? The Celtics are a fourth-place team that did not even play .500 ball the whole last half of the season. The Celtic regulars average over 31 years of age. That is about three years older than the world champion Detroit Tigers last year, six years older than the New York Jets. Of course, the Celtics will be younger next season since Sam, who is almost 36 and the oldest player in the league, will assume his duties as athletic director at Federal City College in Washington.

"Finis. End. Through. This is it," Sam says. Certainly he looks it. In a narrow-lapel, three-piece herringbone he moves through the mod Age of Aquarius like some fine old period piece. For diversion during the playoffs he has been studying Tommy Armour's golf tips for the middle-aged. His oldest of five children is Aubre, 11, who prefers hockey to basketball and roots for the Philadelphia 76ers. Never trust any team over 30.

Sam—the surname is seldom used except in box scores—has played old this year, too. He was injured, missed 12 games and did not come back fast enough to please Russell. He has had some good games in the playoffs, but he began to run down. The Celtics won the fourth game over the Knicks despite Sam—he shot 4 for 18—and then he was 1 for 8 when New York won to cut the Boston series lead to 3-2.

The Knicks had been putting pressure on the corners, so Russell decided that it was time his guards exploited the opening in the middle. Walt Frazier, just voted the best defensive player in the league, had pulled a groin muscle in the last seconds of the fifth game, and his lameness would make New York even more vulnerable. "I put myself into a higher pivot," Russell explained. "We would start our play like before, as if we were going to the corners, then turn them around and head things back to the middle, where the guards could use me as a pick."

Wasn't this a gamble—to have the offense depend on an old man who was shooting five for 26? Russell was pained. "That is two games," he said. "You know what Sam can do. I had to have him come out shooting."

Sam, in his stoical way, was ready. He has prospered in the league for so long, many think, in large measure because his attitude insulates him. He relaxes, away from the court, neither bugged by the last game nor anxious for the next one. "You get out there," he says, "and sometimes you have it, passing, shooting—sometimes you don't. It's all split seconds, and I just don't worry about it."

So Sam came out shooting—he was to put up 31 shots—and got free off Russell at the top of the key for the game's first basket. Frazier, pushing one hand against his sore muscle to try to still the pain, dogged Jones manfully, but Sam hit six baskets in the first half and Russell decided to start him in the third quarter, too, which he has seldom done lately. Sam broke it open with five baskets that put the Celtics 10 up. Moreover, the Knicks often double-teamed him, and this left Emmette Bryant wide open for 19 points. Sam had 29.

He was on the bench, though, when John Havlicek made the shot that won the series. New York had come back to two behind, and the teams traded baskets to 101-99. With 45 seconds left, Havlicek got the ball with only eight remaining on the 24-second clock. He cut left at the top of the key, but the Knicks were on him and no one was open.

Tom Sanders had been in the same predicament a minute before and had taken a desperation jumper that had gone in. Now Havlicek was obliged to try another. He was thinking that at least the Celtics might get the rebound. Willis Reed, under the basket, could see that Havlicek would have to take a bad shot, and when Havlicek went up at 0:40 Russell, standing by Reed, thought John was forced to jump sideways as he shot. The ball flew, just clearing the two hands in his face, and suddenly Havlicek was astonished to note that he actually felt it was on target. The ball hit the left side of the rim and banged back and forth, dropping in like a pinball. On the bench, Larry Siegfried turned to Sam. "Baby," he said. "I can't believe it."

"That's the ones that win ball games," Sam said.

The game, first ever on prime-time national TV, was followed by the Sunday contest in Los Angeles, which gave the West title to the Lakers, 4-1 over Atlanta. Thus the confrontation in the final that begins this week offers the ultimate in beat-Boston possibilities. Through the years the perennial Celtic playoff foes have been, first, Wilt Chamberlain teams (1-6 against Boston) and then the Lakers (0-6). Boston has usually handled them like taking a shot of whiskey and following it with a beer chaser. The mixture, in one gulp, may be somewhat tougher to manage.

Tactics start in the middle, as usual, where Russell must contain Wilt, who is playing extremely well. Last year in this endeavor Russell had help in the person of Wayne Embry (now commissioner of recreation for the city of Boston). He would relieve Bill for long stretches and lean on Wilt. This wore Chamberlain down and also made him mad as hell. Further, it convinced everyone that Russell could no longer go 48 minutes in the playoffs. So much for that notion. He went the route five times against Willis Reed, and worked even harder than usual on offense, since he found the middle open. Anyway, with Embry gone he will have to go all the way against Wilt, too. Bad News Barnes, the backup man, is so deep in Russell's doghouse that he may soon be waived to the American Kennel Club.

Elgin Baylor has not adjusted well to playing with Wilt and had only one good game, the last one, in the series with Atlanta. Any edge up front should go to the team whose reserve forward comes in with a hot hand—Celtic Don Nelson, an ex-Laker, or Laker Mel Counts, an ex-Celtic.
Jerry West gives the Lakers the better backcourt, even if the other L.A. guards do have a hard time getting the ball upcourt. West should have an easier time moving against the Boston man-to-man press than he did against Atlanta's double-teaming zone. Certainly if Sam wants to go out a winner he must offset West with some good-shooting games.

"Hey, you know what someone said?" Sam asked Russell. "They said the team wanted to win this year especially for me." Sam laughed. "I told them there was a certain amount of money involved, too."
Russell roared and struck a delicate pose. "What do they think we are now?" he said, waving limply. "Win thith one for Tham. Oh." They both laughed so loud that it was difficult to hear the sound of the wheel rolling.

The Lakers were 7-5 favorites to win the title. "Boston finished fourth in the East and we finished first in the West, and by all logic Boston shouldn't be in the finals," Chamberlain wrote. The Lakers won four of their six games against Boston in the regular season.

Los Angeles won Game 1 in LA 120-118 behind Jerry West's career playoff high of 53 points (20-41 FG, 11-13 FT) and 10 assists. “Jerry West was just great,” said John Havlicek. “With his 10 assists, that gives him 73 points” (Beaver Country Times, Apr. 24, 1969). “I suppose it’s one of the greatest games I’ve ever played,” said West. “However, there have been games when I’ve scored a lot fewer points and still felt I helped the team more with assists and playing defense” (The Rock Hill Herald, Apr. 17, 1969). Elgin Baylor had 24. John Havlicek led Boston with 37, Sam Jones had 21, and “Bill Russell of the Celtics won his personal battle with longtime rival Wilt Chamberlain, pulling down 27 rebounds and scoring 16 points to 22 and 15 for Chamberlain.”

LA won Game 2 118-112 to take a 2-0 lead. “Boston tried guarding West with three different men […] but failed to cork the flow. Russell had better luck with foe Wilt Chamberlain. The towering centers fought each other to a standoff. Russell had the statistical edge, 21-19 in rebounds and 9-4 in scoring” (The Palm Beach Post, Apr. 25, 1969).

Boston won Game 3 111-105, John Havlicek leading Boston with 34 points, and Larry Siegfried coming off the bench to score 28 points on 10-for-16 shooting (62.5%) from the floor and 8 of 9 free throws after averaging 5.5 points in the two losses in LA. “Siegfried was the difference,” said Laker coach Bill van Breda Kolff. Player-coach Russell said, “He gave us a big game offensively and defensively—and don’t forget he was hurting too.” Siegfried was hampered by a hamstring pull and hip injury “and had relinquished his starting guard to Emmette Bryant” (The Milwaukee Journal, Apr. 28, 1969). “He hasn’t played very much,” West said of Siegfried, “so when he comes up with a ball game like that, it really hurts.” In the fourth quarter, Havlicek scored 13 and Siegfried 11. “Jerry West, who averaged 47 in the first two Laker victories in Los Angeles, again led the Western Division champions, but was held to 24 in the series opener in Boston before a crowd of 14,037 at Boston” (St. Petersburg Times, Apr. 28, 1969). Russell had 11 points and 18 rebounds, Chamberlain 16 points and 26 rebounds.

Boston won Game 4 to tie the series at 2-2. The Lakers led 88-87 with 15 seconds left, and Emmette Bryant stole the inbounds pass and passed to Jones, who missed the shot. Boston got the ball out of bounds with seven seconds left, and set up Jones for the last play. Jones stumbled and took an off-balance 15-footer, and the ball rolled around the rim and dropped through to give the Celtics a 89-88 win. “That’s the play we called,” Russell said. “He wasn’t supposed to stumble though. That was his own innovation.” Jones said, “I tried to get it high and get backspin. That way if I missed, I knew Russell had a chance for the rebound.” The only problem was that Russell had benched himself to put his best free throw shooters on the floor in case the Lakers fouled. John Havlicek led Boston with 21, Larry Siegfried had 20, and Sam Jones and Bailey Howell had 16. Russell had six points and 29 rebounds to Chamberlain’s eight points and 31 rebounds. Boston shot 32 percent, and the Lakers 39 percent. West had a game-high 40 points in the loss, and Keith Erickson was the only other Laker in double figures with 16.

As expected, the two giants, player-coach Bill Russell of Boston and Wilt Chamberlain, have nullified each other. Statistics for four games show Chamberlain with a slight edge. The 7-foot-2 veteran has 43 points and 99 rebounds to 42 points and 95 rebounds for his 35-year-old arch rival.

The big men as far as scoring is concerned have been West, the talented 6-foot-3 guard, and the Celtics John Havlicek, the tireless forward-guard. West is averaging 39.5 points in the four encounters including a career playoff high of 53 points while Havlicek has a 33.7 averaged with 43 points in one game for a personal playoff best.

The Lakers won Game 5 117-104 in LA to take a 3-2 series lead. West had 39 points, and Chamberlain had 13 points and 31 rebounds, out-playing Russell, who had seven points and 13 rebounds. West suffered a hamstring pull in his left leg.

The Celtics won Game 6 in Boston 99-90 to tie the series at 3-3. Don Nelson led Boston with 25, Havlicek scored 19, and Emmette Bryant 18. West and Baylor had a game-high 26 points. “Player-Coach Bill Russell of the Celtics again outplayed Wilt Chamberlain, with 9 points and 19 rebounds to Chamberlain’s 8 points and 18 rebounds” (The Milwaukee Journal, May 2, 1969). Robert Cherry wrote,

Los Angeles was up three games to two, and the main question for Game 6 was whether West would play and, if so, how well. With a heavily bandaged left thigh, he gutted out 26 points. Although Wilt had 18 rebounds (1 less than Russell), his eight points were not nearly enough to make up for West’s diminished offensive production. Baylor, after a horrible first half, ended up with 26 points. Wilt had one field goal on five shots and was 6 for 10 from the foul line—nothing to brag about. Would that Wilt had risen to greatness by scoring say, 30 points (an average night for him not that many seasons before). Coming up big is what the game’s highest-paid player, the game’s all-time leading scorer, and the game’s self-described greatest player would be expected to do. But Wilt failed and Boston won, 99–90.

The Celtics held the Lakers to three baskets in the second quarter, taking a 55-39 lead at the half.

The Celtics won Game 7 108-106 in LA before a Forum-record crowd of 17,568 to win their eleventh NBA championship. John Havlicek led Boston with 26 points on 11-for-19 shooting (57.9%), nine rebounds and five assists in the full 48 minutes, Sam Jones had 24 points on 10-for-16 shooting (62.5%) with seven rebounds before fouling out with 7:05 remaining (St. Petersburg Times, May 6, 1969) with 32 minutes played, Emmette Bryant had 20 points, five rebounds and three assists, Don Nelson had 16 points and six rebounds, and Bill Russell grabbed a team-high 21 rebounds, scored six points and had a team-high six assists in 48 minutes. LA trailed 59-56 at the half. Boston led 91-76 going into the fourth quarter. Jerry West had 42 points (14-29 FG), 13 rebounds and 12 assists in 48 minutes. West scored 14 points in five minutes to cut the lead to 103-100. Elgin Baylor had 20 points, 15 rebounds and seven assists, and Wilt Chamberlain' had 18 points and 27 rebounds.

“This is my most frustrating loss,” said Baylor (The Deseret News, May 6, 1969).

Jerry West won the first NBA Finals Most Valuable Player award, averaging 37.9 points. “The award should have gone to a player on the winning team,” said West. Associated Press sportswriter Bob Myers wrote, “The consensus: Havlicek” (Gettysburg Times, May 5, 1969).

INGLEWOOD, CALIF. (UPI) — Ageless Bill Russell gave no hint of when he would call it quits after leading the Boston Celtics to their 11th NBA title Monday night.

“I have four years left to go on my contract,” he said. “I wish people would stop asking me if I was going to retire.”

The 35-year-old defensive genius was relaxed and smiling after his club defeated the Los Angeles Lakers 108-106 in the final game of the championship series.

“What makes the Celtics great?” he asked no one in particular. “I could say me. . . but I won’t.”

Russell took a crack at Los Angeles’ talkative center, Wilt Chamberlain.

“I’ve been reading that the big center of the Los Angeles team said that we’ve been lucky. Now you can see that it just isn’t so.”

The bearded Boston center then said:

“This has to be one of my greatest thrills. It’s always tough to come back but we did. We’re not a one or two-man team. Everyone is good.

“Winning this isn’t unexpected. I never thought of losing. And this wasn’t the toughest playoff series I’ve ever been in. I’ve been in a lot of these games and they’ve all been exciting.”

Russell was asked about the Lakers’ comeback.

“We didn’t lose our poise. We just missed our shots. I didn’t think we’d be safe with a 17-point lead. The only time you’re safe with that kind of a lead is with 30 seconds to go.”

Russell paid tribute to the Lakers’ Jerry West and said he was “one of the greatest players ever . . . a world champion.”

John Havlicek, the Celtics’ leading scorer in the seven-game series, said, “This is the toughest series I’ve ever been in. And I savor this win above all the others. Russ should be given all the credit. We didn’t have a strong bench. But he knew just when to substitute. West’s injury was unfortunate for them.”

Sam Jones, who played his final game as a pro, looked like all the pressure in the world had been taken off his back. “I don’t think I made a bad shot all night,” he said in reference to his 10-for-16 night from the field. “I went out and practiced hard before the game, and when it started I just began finding the range.”

Chamberlain, who twisted his knee midway through the last quarter, was fuming in the Lakers’ dressing room and directed his ire at Laker coach Bill van Breda Kolff.

“I asked the coach five time to put me back in the game, but he didn’t,” Wilt said. “I felt I could have gotten the ball. But someone has to lose and it was us.”

Then he said: “I don’t really know how I feel at this point. I may never get into this position again. I still have two years on my contract.”

Los Angeles Times writer Charles Maher wrote,

Now that the seventh and perhaps pivotal game of the NBA Finals is in the can, it may be appropriate to pause and reflect for a while. Say five months.

Analysis of whatever technical errors the Lakers may have committed will be left to keener basketball minds. In this period of re-examination, I’d just like to raise one point, one I think can properly be raised by even a casual spectator.

The point is that the past season suggests, if it does not actually prove, that Wilt Chamberlain is not worth $250,000 a year. And if that’s what he’s really getting, his teammates are being insulted.

This is not the intemperate response of an embittered fan. A good friend of mine is connected with the Lakers, but I have had no real emotional attachment to the team, and never have had.

At any rate, the Lakers, with Chamberlain, lost the seventh playoff game by two points — on the Lakers’ floor. So they have come no closer with Wilt than they did without him.

But the intent here is not to charge Chamberlain with unsatisfactory performance. To be sure, there are some things he can’t do. His field goal average, on shots taken from more than a few feet from the hoop, is rotten. His free throw average, on the other hand, is even worse. Nor can he move with the ball the way Bill Russell can.

But you can’t fault a man for not doing things he is physically incapable of doing. Norm Van Brocklin was hardly a great scrambler. But you didn’t rap him for that. The man just couldn’t run. Chamberlain, from any distance, just can’t shoot.

But some say there are things Wilt is capable of doing that he does not do. They say he could play more evenly. They say he loafs.

Since I know nothing of the man’s exhaustion threshold and have not been given access to his mind, I have no business commenting on that.

Neither am I qualified to judge the effect of the animosity between Chamberlain and his coach, nor to say which party is more at fault.

But I can question Chamberlain’s salary. The man has scored 27,000 points and is certainly a considerable force on defense. But is he worth 2½ times as much as Jerry West? Is he worth 2½ times as much as Elgin Baylor (even when Baylor is in a slump)? The answer, of course, is hardly.

Viewed purely as a business investment, Wilt’s $250,000 salary may be defensible. Maybe the Lakers sold enough tickets this season to get their money back.

Further, their situation after eight seasons in Los Angeles was this: They had repeatedly fallen short, sometimes just short, of winning the NBA title. The reason, in the judgment of many, was that they lacked just one thing, a big man. Finally, they were given an opportunity to get him. The price was perhaps much higher than it should have been, but if this was the one piece without which the machine would not run right, should money be any object?

The trouble is there is another dimension to Chamberlain’s salary. When you announce you are giving a man $250,000 a year (or do not deny published reports that that’s what he’s getting), you are telling your fans, in effect, that you have acquired a super force. The magnitude of the sum almost suggests here is a man against whom there can be no defense.

But it can be seen now by every Laker fan that, while Chamberlain may be a great player, he is not the ultimate weapon. The same thing can be seen by his teammates. For the record, they may tell you, “more power to the guy. He’s entitled to anything he can get.” Privately, however, they must deeply resent the fact that Chamberlain is being paid five to 10 times as much as a lot of players he is not five to 10 times greater than. It would be irrational to believe this resentment has not adversely affected the team.

But as the other Lakers would say for publication, Chamberlain cannot be blamed for consenting to sign a $250,000 contract.

But if you can’t knock Chamberlain for taking the money, you can question the wisdom of the people who agreed to give it to him.

Now consider that the Celtics were the oldest team in the league. No one pegged them to win. Russell went down with an injury and missed five games, and the Celtics promptly when on a five-game losing streak, which was their longest losing streak in almost 20 years. Russell returns, and they win. For those who value home court advantage, the Celtics didn't have HCA for any round of the playoffs. Consider the impact Russell had in the Celtics beating teams they weren't supposed to beat. Consider the fact that he was coaching in addition to playing 46.1 minutes per game. This might just be the most impressive accomplishment of Russell's career. Now after reading all this and taking this into account, at least you'll be informed enough to make your decision for this season.

I rest my case.

[ElGee]

I'll add the individual player numbers in a minute. But first, estimated team numbers for 1969:


Estimated Pace-Adjusted Numbers 1969

ORtg

Code: Select all

1.  Cincinnati    100.4
2.  Los Angeles   99.0
3.  New York      98.4
4.  Philadelphia  98.2
5.  Atlanta       97.6
6.  Detroit       97.3
LEAGUE AVG.       95.2
7.  Baltimore     94.8
8.  Seattle       94.3
9.  Phoenix       93.1
9.  Boston        93.1
9.  Milwaukee     93.1
12. San Diego     92.0
13. San Francisco 91.2
14. Chicago       91.0

DRtg

Code: Select all

1.  Boston        88.4
2.  Baltimore     91.3
3.  San Diego     92.2
4.  San Francisco 92.5
5.  Chicago       93.0
6.  New York      93.3
7.  Philadelphia  94.0
LEAGUE AVG.       95.2
8.  Los Angeles   95.4
9.  Atlanta       95.6
10. Milwaukee     97.5
11. Seattle       98.3
12. Detroit       100.0
13. Phoenix       100.5
14. Cincinnati    101.4


Code: Select all

         Pts/75  Reb/75 Ast/75 Rel TS%
======================================
West      21.0   3.5    5.6    5.9%
Monroe    19.7   1.9    3.7    0.2%
Baylor    19.6   8.4    4.3    0.9%
Billy C   18.1   9.3    2.6    0.1%
Oscar     17.8   4.6    7.1    8.8%
Reed      17.8   12.2   1.9    7.1%       
Frazier   15.2   5.4    6.8    6.9%
Wilt      14.4   14.8   3.2    7.3%
Thurmond  14.3   13.1   2.4   -3.4%
Unseld    11.2   14.7   2.1    2.4%
Russell   7.0    13.7   3.5   -2.4%


[Sedale Threatt]

I generally think Russell was the most blessed player in NBA history.

Never played a single second of basketball without a Hall of Famer at two of the other four positions, SG and SF. Spent a good chunk of his early career with another Hall of Famer in Bob Cousy. Had several others in supporting roles. Was coached and fortified by arguably the best coach and general manager in NBA history.

As such, he could concentrate on his considerable strengths while his teammates covered up his weaknesses. Hell, half the clowns who coached Wilt would never have even known what they had in Bill. Just about any other team, he could have easily been miscast.

All that said, Bill's correct -- this was his most impressive achievement, which is saying something. The Celtics obviously still had some other great players, even at this advanced stage, but the results speak for themselves. I have no problem giving him the top spot this year.

[bastillon]

I generally think Russell was the most blessed player in NBA history.

Never played a single second of basketball without a Hall of Famer at two of the other four positions, SG and SF. Spent a good chunk of his early career with another Hall of Famer in Bob Cousy. Had several others in supporting roles. Was coached and fortified by arguably the best coach and general manager in NBA history.

As such, he could concentrate on his considerable strengths while his teammates covered up his weaknesses. Hell, half the clowns who coached Wilt would never have even known what they had in Bill. Just about any other team, he could have easily been miscast.

All that said, Bill's correct -- this was his most impressive achievement, which is saying something. The Celtics obviously still had some other great players, even at this advanced stage, but the results speak for themselves. I have no problem giving him the top spot this year.

these guys were in the HOF just because of the rings. Wilt had a lot more talent around him in the 2nd part of the 60s.

[fatal9]

Thurmond and the Warriors had a great chance to upset the Lakers in the first round. They were up 2-0 (both games in LA) and then their leading scorer Mullins injured his knee, ended up playing less than 25 mints on a gimpy knee for rest of the games. Warriors then proceeded to lose 4 straight. Thurmond did a great job on Wilt, holding him to 11, 10, 22, 11, 7, 11 points in their matchups, an average of 12 ppg on 49-50 FG%, compared to Wilt's 21 ppg on 58% in the regular season. Thurmond averaged 17/19/5 for the series but like always his FG% was very low, only 39.2%.

Wilt's first season with the Lakers was definitely a disappointment. Jerry West played 10 more games in '69 than in '68, Wilt joined a team which had one major weakness all throughout the 60s (no elite center), but Lakers ended up winning only 55 games - two more than in '68 - and their SRS actually declined. Wilt's former team, the Sixers, won 55 games in their first full season without him, had a higher SRS than the Lakers and that was with Luke Jackson playing in just 25 games (as opposed to 82 in '68). At first I didn't understand why Wilt wasn't the MVP of the league, I think he was 9th or 10th in voting, but when you look at the situation in context of the season before, it makes sense.

This year's up in the air with West, Havlicek and Russell contending for the top spots. Given what happened in the finals/playoffs, on top of the disappointing regular season, I don't know if Wilt will make my top 5. The final two spots are between Reed, Frazier, Unseld and maybe Thurmond.

[semi-sentient]

Wow, good stuff. Russell did a great job on Wilt, but I wonder how much of that was due to Wilt's lack of a killer instinct, particularly after West was hampered by that hamstring injury (yet he was still great). Whatever the case, Russell's play/coaching was definitely a huge factor in them winning the title, so props.

Some interesting bits from those articles:

Russell took a crack at Los Angeles’ talkative center, Wilt Chamberlain.

“I’ve been reading that the big center of the Los Angeles team said that we’ve been lucky. Now you can see that it just isn’t so.”

Russell paid tribute to the Lakers’ Jerry West and said he was “one of the greatest players ever . . . a world champion.”

John Havlicek, the Celtics’ leading scorer in the seven-game series, said, “This is the toughest series I’ve ever been in. And I savor this win above all the others. Russ should be given all the credit. We didn’t have a strong bench. But he knew just when to substitute. West’s injury was unfortunate for them.”

The point is that the past season suggests, if it does not actually prove, that Wilt Chamberlain is not worth $250,000 a year. And if that’s what he’s really getting, his teammates are being insulted.

...

But the intent here is not to charge Chamberlain with unsatisfactory performance. To be sure, there are some things he can’t do. His field goal average, on shots taken from more than a few feet from the hoop, is rotten. His free throw average, on the other hand, is even worse. Nor can he move with the ball the way Bill Russell can.

...

But it can be seen now by every Laker fan that, while Chamberlain may be a great player, he is not the ultimate weapon. The same thing can be seen by his teammates. For the record, they may tell you, “more power to the guy. He’s entitled to anything he can get.” Privately, however, they must deeply resent the fact that Chamberlain is being paid five to 10 times as much as a lot of players he is not five to 10 times greater than. It would be irrational to believe this resentment has not adversely affected the team.

Ouch.

One thing that surprised me in reading that was that Frazier was voted the best defensive player that year. Who was it that voted, just out of curiosity?

[JordansBulls]

This series and the 1970 series were probably two things that stick out in Wilt's legacy.

http://webuns.chez-alice.fr/finals/1969.htm

The Lakers were heavily favored to win the 1969 NBA Finals against the old, battered Celtics, but then Chamberlain became the victim of one of the most controversial coaching decisions in NBA history. In Game 7, Wilt hurt his leg with six minutes left to play, with the Lakers trailing by nine points. The Celtics won, 108-106. When Chamberlain had asked out of the game, the Lakers had been trailing by nine points, but then mounted a comeback to pull within one by the time he asked back in; this caused some to assume that Chamberlain had not really been injured, but instead had given up and "copped out" of the game when it looked as though the Lakers would lose. Because of this, some branded him a scapegoat and a quitter. Even Bill Russell ridiculed him, which almost caused Chamberlain to end their friendship..

[bastillon]

But the intent here is not to charge Chamberlain with unsatisfactory performance. To be sure, there are some things he can’t do. His field goal average, on shots taken from more than a few feet from the hoop, is rotten. His free throw average, on the other hand, is even worse. Nor can he move with the ball the way Bill Russell can.

But you can’t fault a man for not doing things he is physically incapable of doing. Norm Van Brocklin was hardly a great scrambler. But you didn’t rap him for that. The man just couldn’t run. Chamberlain, from any distance, just can’t shoot.

I wonder what TLAF and others who have praised his shooting have to say about this.

[ThaRegul8r]

I generally think Russell was the most blessed player in NBA history.

Never played a single second of basketball without a Hall of Famer at two of the other four positions, SG and SF. Spent a good chunk of his early career with another Hall of Famer in Bob Cousy. Had several others in supporting roles. Was coached and fortified by arguably the best coach and general manager in NBA history.

As such, he could concentrate on his considerable strengths while his teammates covered up his weaknesses. Hell, half the clowns who coached Wilt would never have even known what they had in Bill. Just about any other team, he could have easily been miscast.

All that said, Bill's correct -- this was his most impressive achievement, which is saying something. The Celtics obviously still had some other great players, even at this advanced stage, but the results speak for themselves. I have no problem giving him the top spot this year.

these guys were in the HOF just because of the rings.

Exactly. I've seen very few people actually both to look into the situation. They just take the simplistic approach of saying, "LOOK AT THE HOFERS!!!!!!!"

Prior to 1980, only two other Celtics besides Russell were in the Hall of Fame—Bob Cousy, elected in 1970, seven years after his retirement in his second year of eligibility, and Bill Sharman, elected in 1976, 15 years after his retirement in his ninth year of eligibility. After 1980—when Russell was voted the greatest player of all time, six Celtics from those teams were inducted to the Hall: Frank Ramsey in 1981, 17 years after his retirement in his 11th year of eligibility; John Havlicek in 1984, six years after his retirement in his first year of eligibility; Sam Jones in 1984, 15 years after his retirement in his ninth year of eligibility; Tom Heinsohn in 1986, 21 years after his retirement in his 15th year of eligibility; K.C. Jones in 1989, 22 years after his retirement in his 16th year of eligibility; and Bailey Howell in 1997, 26 years after his retirement in his 20th year of eligibility. (Hall of Famer Clyde Lovellette played on Boston in 1962-63 and ’63-64, but played only 9.3 and 9.7 minutes per game—he made the Hall for his play on Minneapolis and St. Louis.)

Havlicek was a bona fide HoFer, and made it first ballot. However, look at the others. Any coincidence that the majority didn't make the hall until after Russell was named GOAT? Look at how long it took. What made them HoFers when they never were before? Some of them weren't even All-Stars during their careers. They just got in under Russell.

[Dr Positivity]

Thanks for the work, ThaRegular and ElGee

Those ORTG/DRTG stats make feel a little better about Oscar's season, considering he put up dominant numbers on a 41 W playoff missing team... but it looks like the Royals were just atrocious defensively. Now you can their supporting cast was all offense and thus take away some of Oscar's role in that 1st place ORTG, and blame him for a lack of d himself, but nevertheless he'll probably make my list

This is going to be a really tough one for one of the all-time historical seasons... I'll probably go with my "which season would I take in a draft if I knew nothing else" technique to split it

[Sedale Threatt]

Prior to 1980, only two other Celtics besides Russell were in the Hall of Fame—Bob Cousy, elected in 1970, seven years after his retirement in his second year of eligibility, and Bill Sharman, elected in 1976, 15 years after his retirement in his ninth year of eligibility. After 1980—when Russell was voted the greatest player of all time, six Celtics from those teams were inducted to the Hall: Frank Ramsey in 1981, 17 years after his retirement in his 11th year of eligibility; John Havlicek in 1984, six years after his retirement in his first year of eligibility; Sam Jones in 1984, 15 years after his retirement in his ninth year of eligibility; Tom Heinsohn in 1986, 21 years after his retirement in his 15th year of eligibility; K.C. Jones in 1989, 22 years after his retirement in his 16th year of eligibility; and Bailey Howell in 1997, 26 years after his retirement in his 20th year of eligibility. (Hall of Famer Clyde Lovellette played on Boston in 1962-63 and ’63-64, but played only 9.3 and 9.7 minutes per game—he made the Hall for his play on Minneapolis and St. Louis.)

Havlicek was a bona fide HoFer, and made it first ballot. However, look at the others. Any coincidence that the majority didn't make the hall until after Russell was named GOAT? Look at how long it took. What made them HoFers when they never were before? Some of them weren't even All-Stars during their careers. They just got in under Russell.

So none of those guys could play a little bit, huh? Sam Jones, Bill Sharman, Bob Cousy and Tommy Heinsohn all made it into the Hall of Fame simply because they played next to Bill Russell? Didn't have anything to do with them? I guess Auerbach was a half-assed coach and talent evaluator as well.

[Doctor MJ]

So none of those guys could play a little bit, huh? Sam Jones, Bill Sharman, Bob Cousy and Tommy Heinsohn all made it into the Hall of Fame simply because they played next to Bill Russell? Didn't have anything to do with them? I guess Auerbach was a half-assed coach and talent evaluator as well.

I'm inclined to look at the early Celtics as stacked compared to the competition. I look at the Celtics post-Cousy though, and while I'm not saying they didn't have supporting talent, is it really clearly better than the other stars had?

[ThaRegul8r]

Prior to 1980, only two other Celtics besides Russell were in the Hall of Fame—Bob Cousy, elected in 1970, seven years after his retirement in his second year of eligibility, and Bill Sharman, elected in 1976, 15 years after his retirement in his ninth year of eligibility. After 1980—when Russell was voted the greatest player of all time, six Celtics from those teams were inducted to the Hall: Frank Ramsey in 1981, 17 years after his retirement in his 11th year of eligibility; John Havlicek in 1984, six years after his retirement in his first year of eligibility; Sam Jones in 1984, 15 years after his retirement in his ninth year of eligibility; Tom Heinsohn in 1986, 21 years after his retirement in his 15th year of eligibility; K.C. Jones in 1989, 22 years after his retirement in his 16th year of eligibility; and Bailey Howell in 1997, 26 years after his retirement in his 20th year of eligibility. (Hall of Famer Clyde Lovellette played on Boston in 1962-63 and ’63-64, but played only 9.3 and 9.7 minutes per game—he made the Hall for his play on Minneapolis and St. Louis.)

Havlicek was a bona fide HoFer, and made it first ballot. However, look at the others. Any coincidence that the majority didn't make the hall until after Russell was named GOAT? Look at how long it took. What made them HoFers when they never were before? Some of them weren't even All-Stars during their careers. They just got in under Russell.

So none of those guys could play a little bit, huh? Sam Jones, Bill Sharman, Bob Cousy and Tommy Heinsohn all made it into the Hall of Fame simply because they played next to Bill Russell? Didn't have anything to do with them? I guess Auerbach was a half-assed coach and talent evaluator as well.

Nice strawman. And evidently you missed that Sharman and Cousy were among those who were in the Hall before 1980. You also conveniently fail to address the fact that—aside from Havlicek, who as I said, was a bona fide Hall of Famer and went in on the first ballot—the majority of the '60s Celtics in the Hall didn't make it until after Russell was named GOAT. How do you explain this? Put emotion aside, and advance a rational argument to account for why these other players weren't HoFers for a decade or more, but somehow they improved their resumes to HoF status. And why—again, I reiterate, with the exception of Havlicek, who was an obvious first ballot HoFer—did most of the players from that team who are in the Hall not enter until after Russel was officially pronounced the Greatest Player in NBA History.

[Doctor MJ]

Reg & other Russell proponents, thoughts on West vs Russell? That's going to be my debate.

West seems like he was just off the charts in the finals. Do you still think Russell was better?

[bastillon]

So none of those guys could play a little bit, huh? Sam Jones, Bill Sharman, Bob Cousy and Tommy Heinsohn all made it into the Hall of Fame simply because they played next to Bill Russell? Didn't have anything to do with them? I guess Auerbach was a half-assed coach and talent evaluator as well.

Cousy no doubt was a HOFer given his status pre-Russell. I don't see any reason to believe Sharman, Jones or Heinsohn were locks for HOF though. I mean Sharman moreso, but it's because of the 50s racism rather than his actual skills... and still he was a 4-time all-star, 3-time all-NBA player before Russell came around. SGs like him are rather common - high scoring, perimeter oriented and one dimensional. do you really need to dig to find these ? pretty much the same applies to Sam Jones.

was it really that hard to find a shooting/scoring wing ? in an 8-team league almost every team had just as good or better guard: Oscar, West, Guerin, Greer, Monroe, Wilkens, Gene Shue, Dave Bing, Hudson... every single one of them played at some point in the 60s so it's not like Russell had this game-changing advantage bc of Jones. his backcourts were rather alright, but nothing to brag about (especially considering that KC Jones was a PG without a jumper so he was pretty bad).

and don't get me started on Heinsohn... poor rebounder, non existent on defense AND a chucker. seems more like a old school Jamison (only without rebounds and on worse efficiency). and again, there were numerous forwards that played at similar or higher level than Heinsohn: Pettit, Baylor, Schayes, Arizin, Barry, Bob Boozer, Cunningham, Lucas, Twyman. I don't see how Russell had any advantage here over any other team either.

[bastillon]

Reg & other Russell proponents, thoughts on West vs Russell? That's going to be my debate.

West seems like he was just off the charts in the finals. Do you still think Russell was better?

Wilt was easily more than Havlicek and Baylor was easily more than KC Jones. I don't see how this is a question. West may have been more productive player in boxscore, but it was Russell's non-boxscore impact that made the difference in the end. his defense won the championship and proved to be more than West's offense.

it'd be hard for me to put West ahead of Russell in any season simply because I think Russell was on another planet all his career, and even on the twilight he won while having a significantly worse support. seriously, it's like comparing KAJ to Bryant.