Detroit vs. Milwaukee Comparison

[b-diddy]

what about milwaukee's injuries. they were hit bad, too. and lost guys that actually help, like their starting center.

15 games was conservative. milwaukee looks like a team that can win 50 plus games to me. i see the pistons winning 35 tops, but any number below that wouldnt surprise me.

[dVs33]

If Joe doesn't make any trades, then the Bucks have a better team than s next year.
It's just a reality.
If Bogut gets healthy, and Jennings comtinues to develop, then they will be a solid team. They added scoring on the wings with Maggette and some frontcourt depth with Gooden, so they're better than last year. Will they make it past the 2nd round??? No and that's the problem they have and will continue to have. jennings and bogut are nice, but the other guys on their roster are older and won't develop with those 2.

We however have a better collection of youth on the roster.
Stuckey, Gordon, Daye, Jonas, Monroe, CV, Summers and White haven't reached their primes (BG is borderline I guess) and therefore will be developing together.
Depending on what happens with Rip, we could quite easily leap frog the bucks.

if the ideal situation plays out and Rip is move for expirings and we grab a young 5 next summer (Gasol, perkins, Noah), then we're clearly better than the bucks.
They may be better as of now, but we have a brighter future IMO.

[Master Shake]

what about milwaukee's injuries. they were hit bad, too. and lost guys that actually help, like their starting center.

15 games was conservative. milwaukee looks like a team that can win 50 plus games to me. i see the pistons winning 35 tops, but any number below that wouldnt surprise me.

How many times has Corey Magette been a 2nd or 3rd option on a 50 win team?

John Salmons amazingly put together his first good HALF SEASON and oh, it was a contract year... go figure. Tim Thomas anyone?

I'm not impressed by Milwaukee at all. Bogut is good, Jennings will become a good point guard (not best in the league like some are hyping him), a few good role players, Skiles and Hammond aint bad at all, the rest leaves a bit to be desired. Doesn't sound like a soon to be contender to me.

[BucksRUS]

MILWAUKEE DEPTH CHART

Center: Andrew Bogut/Drew Gooden/Larry Sanders*/Tiny Gallon*
Power Forward: Ersan Ilyasova/Luc Mbah a Moute/Jon Brockman
Small Forward: Corey Maggette/Carlos Delfino/Chris Douglas-Roberts
Shooting Guard: John Salmons/Michael Redd/Darington Hobson*
Point Guard: Brandon Jennings/Keyon Dooling/Earl Boykins

Just a comment or two about the depth chart. Michael Redd is on the roster, but will not play this year so it doesn't even pay to list him on the depth chart. CDR will be the backup SG. Only one of the second rounders Hobson or Gallon will be on the roster if either. I guess what you have up there with PF and C is OK, won't know until the games start how the rotations will go since we have 1 C and 5-6 PFs.

Hilarious thread, Keep it up.

[Piston Boris]

Just a comment or two about the depth chart. Michael Redd is on the roster, but will not play this year so it doesn't even pay to list him on the depth chart. CDR will be the backup SG. Only one of the second rounders Hobson or Gallon will be on the roster if either. I guess what you have up there with PF and C is OK, won't know until the games start how the rotations will go since we have 1 C and 5-6 PFs.

Having Redd out for another year is a tough break.

Hilarious thread, Keep it up.

Milwaukee threads about being the new Detroit are priceless.

[Snakebites]

what about milwaukee's injuries. they were hit bad, too. and lost guys that actually help, like their starting center.

15 games was conservative. milwaukee looks like a team that can win 50 plus games to me. i see the pistons winning 35 tops, but any number below that wouldnt surprise me.

Yeah.

The Bucks are clearly a better team than we are right now, and I'm not seeing that their upside is any worse, either.

They're in a better situation without question. That individual matchup breakdown doesn't work for me, either. It assumes that Stuckey develops better than Jennings (hah) and also takes for granted that Rip and Gordon won't be as horrendous as they were last year (dubious).

We're in a rough situation. Much worse than that of the Bucks.

[Piston Boris]

if the ideal situation plays out and Rip is move for expirings and we grab a young 5 next summer (Gasol, perkins, Noah), then we're clearly better than the bucks.
They may be better as of now, but we have a brighter future IMO.

Building a new contender is a process that won't happen in one summer.

Both the Bad Boys and Going to Work Pistons took a few years to be assembled.

[LarryHarris]

Having Redd out for another year is a tough break.

Actually, it isn't. The majority of us are quite happy about it.

The Pistons have an interesting roster. The most puzzling thing was the signings of Gordon and CV last summer. They should have not done that, tanked for a couple years and let Prince and Hamilton leave town when they got the chance. Your young players are intriguing high risk/high reward type guys.

BTW... Gooden will be starting at PF, Delfino will be starting at SF and anyone that makes injury claims about Salmons, but lists T-Mac as a reason they will be better than us at SF is crazy...

I see a few more years of mediocrity for your team unless you can get out from under the CV and Hamilton contracts (I like Gordon).

[Piston Boris]

It assumes that Stuckey develops better than Jennings (hah) and also takes for granted that Rip and Gordon won't be as horrendous as they were last year (dubious).

Stuckey debates will rage on for a while.

Hamilton and Gordon were both bit by the injury bug big time last year. Amazing how that gets ignored.

[Master Shake]

what about milwaukee's injuries. they were hit bad, too. and lost guys that actually help, like their starting center.

15 games was conservative. milwaukee looks like a team that can win 50 plus games to me. i see the pistons winning 35 tops, but any number below that wouldnt surprise me.

Yeah.

The Bucks are clearly a better team than we are right now, and I'm not seeing that their upside is any worse, either.

They're in a better situation without question. That individual matchup breakdown doesn't work for me, either. It assumes that Stuckey develops better than Jennings (hah) and also takes for granted that Rip and Gordon won't be as horrendous as they were last year (dubious).

We're in a rough situation. Much worse than that of the Bucks.

Not that we aren't in a bad situation, because we are, its just I hate that people act like the Bucks are far and away this superior ball club, when I really just don't think they are all that great.

Jennings and that team is VASTLY overrated.

I'm not sitting here telling you the Pistons are even in their tier of competition, I am saying the Bucks just aren't as good as they've been made out to be lately. Almost everybody on that team has a negative track record, they have one good year, and we are supposed to all of the sudden buy into the hype?

No thanks. They remind me soooo much of the Pau Gasol Grizzlies.

[Piston Boris]

Having Redd out for another year is a tough break.

Actually, it isn't. The majority of us are quite happy about it.

Cool.

The Pistons have an interesting roster. The most puzzling thing was the signings of Gordon and CV last summer. They should have not done that, tanked for a couple years and let Prince and Hamilton leave town when they got the chance. Your young players are intriguing high risk/high reward type guys.

Dumars doesn't believe in going to the lottery to build. It hasn't worked out for the Knicks, Clippers, Bulls, etc. so well.

BTW... Gooden will be starting at PF, Delfino will be starting at SF and anyone that makes injury claims about Salmons, but lists T-Mac as a reason they will be better than us at SF is crazy...

I didn't champion the T-Mac signing, but he's healthy and I'm going to see what he does on the court this year before passing judgment.

I see a few more years of mediocrity for your team unless you can get out from under the CV and Hamilton contracts (I like Gordon).

CV's contract is reasonable. I didn't favor extending Hamilton and then signing Gordon. Hamilton's contract is partially guaranteed by a third in its final year. Gordon's contract is a bargain compared to Richard Jefferson's old contract, Rudy Gay, Vince Carter, Joe Johnson, etc.

It's a matter of time before Hamilton gets traded. Many Detroit detractors seem to ignore that Dumars won't stop looking to make moves.

The Bucks have good young pieces in Jennings and Bogut (if he stays healthy), but the majority of the current Milwaukee roster has a fair amount of mileage, which isn't good for the long term.

[Piston Boris]

Not that we aren't in a bad situation, because we are, its just I hate that people act like the Bucks are far and away this superior ball club, when I really just don't think they are all that great.

Jennings and that team is VASTLY overrated.

I'm not sitting here telling you the Pistons are even in their tier of competition, I am saying the Bucks just aren't as good as they've been made out to be lately. Almost everybody on that team has a negative track record, they have one good year, and we are supposed to all of the sudden buy into the hype?

No thanks. They remind me soooo much of the Pau Gasol Grizzlies.

Barring injuries, things generally sort themselves out on the court.

As I've said before, all the preseason predictions are tiresome.

I'm waiting for the season.

[PedroGrande]

From what i saw, there isn't any Hate from the Bucks against the Pistons. The thing that was posted there was to comment the 29th post on the Hollinger team rankings. It wasn't even a thread created to talk smack about detroit (like this one).

If bogut isn't any good because he is injury prone, Hamilton, and TMac are terible.

You guy have talent. Just the combination of players that i believe that it isn't quite good. I like Monroe a lot, but he makes the contract you gave last year to CV Useless if he pans out. If he doesn't its a waste of a potencial star player. Ben and Hamilton, can play well together? I like Jerebko but isn't Prince ahead of him?

[LarryHarris]

CV's contract is reasonable. I didn't favor extending Hamilton and then signing Gordon. Hamilton's contract is partially guaranteed by a third in its final year. Gordon's contract is a bargain compared to Richard Jefferson's old contract, Rudy Gay, Vince Carter, Joe Johnson, etc.

It's a matter of time before Hamilton gets traded. Many Detroit detractors seem to ignore that Dumars won't stop looking to make moves.

The Bucks have good young pieces in Jennings and Bogut (if he stays healthy), but the majority of the current Milwaukee roster has a fair amount of mileage, which isn't good for the long term.

Coming from someone who watched CV for a couple of seasons, I'm not too sure that his contract is reasonable. He is the kind of guy who is just never going to get it, IMO.

As I stated, I like Gordon, I think he is a nice piece, though I am not sure he'll be around by the time your young talent matures.

Your point about Dumars is great. Hammond has the same trait in him (which perhaps is somewhat attributed to Dumars). I hope, for your sake, that he is able to find a taker for that horrible Hamilton contract, but you are right, he will look.

I disagree with your point about the Bucks being "old." First off, Redd doesn't factor in, he is dead here. Secondly, we do have Salmons, Maggette and Gooden, who all, as you stated, have miles, but the rest of our team is young, including guys at all of the positions you mentioned. Our second unit is packed with young talent...

CDR backs up Salmons.
Delfino and Mbah a Moute play SF. (Maggette)
Sanders, Ersan and Brockman back up Gooden.

When Maggette, Salmons and Gooden age or become less useful, we have players who should be seasoned and ready to step in. We are prepared to reload around Bogut and Jennings when that time comes.

[ComboGuardCity]

From what i saw, there isn't any Hate from the Bucks against the Pistons. The thing that was posted there was to comment the 29th post on the Hollinger team rankings. It wasn't even a thread created to talk smack about detroit (like this one).

If bogut isn't any good because he is injury prone, Hamilton, and TMac are terible.

You guy have talent. Just the combination of players that i believe that it isn't quite good. I like Monroe a lot, but he makes the contract you gave last year to CV Useless if he pans out. If he doesn't its a waste of a potencial star player. Ben and Hamilton, can play well together? I like Jerebko but isn't Prince ahead of him?

Big man injuries are alot more serious. Are you high on Mcgette in your offense?

[Warspite]

I like the Bucks and one of the main reasons there team is so much better is Scott Skiles. As long as we have a bad coach and they have Skiles thats about 5-10 more wins before the players walk on the court.

The Bucks have the C/PG combo and have added wing scoring. I think they can make the ECF. Wouldnt be shocked if they took down the Heat in the playoffs. Im also very high on Sanders. Hes the next Theo Ratlif and the dirty work player that they need. Skiles believes in taking chances on defense and playing passing lanes so there guards get beat more than usual and a shotblocker like Sanders can realy erase alot of backcourt mistakes. I also think this is the yr Bogut plays in the allstar game and shows he a legit top 5 C. If he cant do it now he most likely never will.

The Piston homerism needs to be put in check. I heard the same things 360 days ago about how the Pistons were a 50 win team in 09/10. We won less than 30. So whatever you guys think your going to do gives us 20 more losses and you should be about right.

[ComboGuardCity]

I like the Bucks and one of the main reasons there team is so much better is Scott Skiles. As long as we have a bad coach and they have Skiles thats about 5-10 more wins before the players walk on the court.

The Bucks have the C/PG combo and have added wing scoring. I think they can make the ECF. Wouldnt be shocked if they took down the Heat in the playoffs. Im also very high on Sanders. Hes the next Theo Ratlif and the dirty work player that they need. Skiles believes in taking chances on defense and playing passing lanes so there guards get beat more than usual and a shotblocker like Sanders can realy erase alot of backcourt mistakes. I also think this is the yr Bogut plays in the allstar game and shows he a legit top 5 C. If he cant do it now he most likely never will.

The Piston homerism needs to be put in check. I heard the same things 360 days ago about how the Pistons were a 50 win team in 09/10. We won less than 30. So whatever you guys think your going to do gives us 20 more losses and you should be about right.

I think every one hear sees the Pistons as a 40 win team. That's not Homerism...

[Spider156]

I see the Pistons as a 35+ win team without chemistry. If our chemistry builds up by a little, you're looking at a 45+ win team. If the chemistry builds up significantly where they won't lose a 20 pt lead in the third quarter, then you're looking at a 50+ win team. We had ALOT of those games where we have a big lead in the first half and end the second half with a loss.

All we need is stability and role definition for a significant chemistry build up. This WILL NOT happen if Rip is here. It'll happen with Prince but not Hamilton. This is why in order to get rid of Hamilton, Prince must be in the same trade to get a reasonable value back.

Who said they see the Pistons as 35 wins tops? You don't understand how WRONG you are. We didn't have Prince, Hamilton, Gordon, Villanueva, Bynum, and Wallace the MAJORITY of last season.

Also I wouldn't trade Stuckey for Jennings. I believe Stuckey is better because of his defense. Defense is more valuable than offense. Jennings is overrated. He scored his 40 something points because teams haven't figured him out yet. The same happened to Stuckey and the same will happen to Collison.

Bogut always gets closed down by Wallace and Salmons had a contract year. If you play us next year with both teams fully healthy, yes with Redd, we would win.

[Warspite]

I see the Pistons as a 35+ win team without chemistry. If our chemistry builds up by a little, you're looking at a 45+ win team. If the chemistry builds up significantly where they won't lose a 20 pt lead in the third quarter, then you're looking at a 50+ win team. We had ALOT of those games where we have a big lead in the first half and end the second half with a loss.

All we need is stability and role definition for a significant chemistry build up. This WILL NOT happen if Rip is here. It'll happen with Prince but not Hamilton. This is why in order to get rid of Hamilton, Prince must be in the same trade to get a reasonable value back.

Who said they see the Pistons as 35 wins tops? You don't understand how WRONG you are. We didn't have Prince, Hamilton, Gordon, Villanueva, Bynum, and Wallace the MAJORITY of last season.

Also I wouldn't trade Stuckey for Jennings. I believe Stuckey is better because of his defense. Defense is more valuable than offense. Jennings is overrated. He scored his 40 something points because teams haven't figured him out yet. The same happened to Stuckey and the same will happen to Collison.

Bogut always gets closed down by Wallace and Salmons had a contract year. If you play us next year with both teams fully healthy, yes with Redd, we would win.

Subtract 15 wins in every scenario and I agree with you. Do you guys realy think Ben Wallace is going to return to 04 form and lay 30mpg? Eventualy hes going to break down with an injury or hes going to lose another step. It reminds me of Brett Favre to be honest. I think the Pistons are on the right path but we are not 20 wins better than last yr in a conferance which has improved.

[epheisey]

I understand how many games were missed last season, and I see why that hurt us so much. But we need to stop overstating the role of injuries. We actually did have most of these players: Prince (49 games played), Hamilton (46), Gordon (62), CV (78), Bynum (63), and Wallace (69) for the majority of last season. Yes, the fact that they didn't play together is also a big reason for the lack of success.
What I think is interesting is that everyone is saying that Rip and Tay need to be gone for this team to be any good. Well crazy thing is, when they were gone last season, we didn't do to hot. I get that by moving them we hope to pick up an important piece, but that would mean we can't simply do a salary dump with Rip.
To say that the Pistons are capable of winning 45+ games, to me, seems too much of a stretch. The last few years in the Eastern Conference, teams with 45+ wins finished at least in 6th place. If most of us agree, like many have, that the Pistons will be fighting for the 7/8 spots, it won't be with a winning record, but more likely a .500 record or even a few games under .500.