No Trades

[HoustonRockets]

I am more than satisfied with our current roster. And feel we have enough talent and skill to compete with anybody in this league as long as we stay healthy.

**** Bosh, **** Mello...

Our Rockets are ready...




ps. i had to release some stress...

[rdehonney]

I agree, I mean after all in the last ten years I can think of so many teams that have won championships without a star player on the wing. F carmello, what do we need him for! You guys kill me with this stuff, lakers-kobe/ celtics- pierce/ spurs-ginobili/ bulls-nuff said. I guess next year we will be seeing houston- martin. I'm not saying our team wont compete or play well with our current roster, but especially in the playoffs you need a player who you can give the ball to that might be able to win you a game or 2 when the team isn't playing well. But f carmello, we don't need him........... So my question to you is this, do you think any of the teams that I mentioned above would have won a championship or even got to the championship without their best wing player on the team despite the fact that they all had great overall teams? I surely don't

[MaxRider]

we have too many rotation player
we need to trade 2 and improve one position
i agree Melo is not the answer

[moofs]

Yo ballboy.

Notice that all those guys you named are:
- Good to great defenders
- Great rebounders at their positions
- Decent at stl/blk
- Shoot high percentages
- Don't turn the ball over.

Those notes do not describe Carmello. Furthermore, you're completely neglecting the supporting casts.

Once more, here's the for/against
For:
- More offensive options should help his efficiency.
- He's a better option at SF than Battier, who has historically been capable of defending SGs
- We'd gain at SG with Battier over Martin, and we'd gain at SF with Melo over Battier, which in theory makes him a net gain.
Against:
- His reluctance to pass the ball could hurt everyone else's efficiencies
- He turns the ball over a lot
- His defense ain't all that
- He's paid like he's a MUCH better player than he is simply because he takes a lot of shots (and a lot of difficult ones) and can only make them at average efficiency. Guess what? If he'd pass the ball more, he wouldn't have to take as many difficult shots and his efficiency would go up.
- Seeing as how a jackass, he's hard to root for. That's important in sports.

As for "especially in the playoffs you need a player who you can give the ball to that might be able to win you a game or 2 when the team isn't playing well", well that's cute. You're not completely off, but you're definitely wrong. It's more that depth gets you through the regular season, but come playoffs, rosters shorten, starter minutes go up significantly, and your rotation had better be better than the other team's top 6. Carmello does make us better, but he doesn't remedy that situation. The Rockets' problem is that we need a better #1 option than Yao - which is why there have been Yao trade threads on this board since we drafted him. Unfortunately, that ain't happening.

I agree with Max. He's not the answer, but I do think he's an improvement and wouldn't die as such if we ended up with him. His 17m contract would kill us being able to move pieces around freely, though. Considering that he's not the answer, that's a BIG strike against him. I'm almost positive we won't end up with him as such, but the gray area he's sitting in makes it more fun to argue.

Bosh didn't help us that much, either. Both Bosh and Anthony are about 20% better overall than Scola and Battier. (You can take the accolades they get and stuff them, awards are stupid - Pete Maravich is in the Hall of Fame for crying out loud.)

[spolgar]

The last time we had a team with two max contracts, that didn't go so well. The best ball I've ever seen Melo play wasn't the Orange the Jayhawks, it was when he played at the worlds and the olympics. Surrounded by superior players compared to Denver, it was the first time I saw Melo do a bit of everything.

We've got 3 pretty good scorers already in Yao, Martin and Brooks. Conservatively, that's 18, 18 and 15 right there or 50+ points total. With Scola at 15 and whoever at the 3 at 10, we're already at 75 points a game between the starting 5.

We have Yao, Brooks and Martin as different go to scorers, and Scola ain't exactly shabby either. Why do we need another one?

[Kal El]

let me just say this, i know everybody was excited because houston was mentioned with the whole melo situation and i know its the off season with the season around the corner and everybody is looking for something to get excited about... but i'm just saying, don't get your hopes up.

and as far as our roster goes, its a big question mark and alot of it is on Yao. I think were definitely a playoff team. How good are we in the west, is way to early to tell. championship contender conversation is premature, that shouldn't happen any earlier than the all star break.

this isn't really directed to this topic. more on general.

[moofs]

Agreed spolgar. The reason I warmed slightly to Melo is that he's a better rebounder/defender than Martin, and has the tools to be better than Martin in general, and potentially better than he's been (which is basically average, just with high-usage and high-FGA). The tradeoff is that he currently costs 6m more.

I highly doubt he's even remotely the best value out there, just the best remaining "high-usage pure scorer" a.k.a. "go-to guy".

For the two max contracts bit, it can work, but when the bigger-height player (Yao) is almost doomed to be the lower-production of the two, it's going to be tricky. .. Which, come to think of it, is a great reason to not go for Melo's marginal improvement (and the unrealized back-of-the-head reason I highly doubted that we'd go for him). As far as theoretically-available max contracts go, I think we're looking at Chris Paul and Gerald Wallace - and I'd pee myself for Gerald Wallace.

If we ever got him, we'd have to bring back Boki.


http://wn.com/Gerald_Wallace_over_Nachbar

p.s. Yet another annual example of how Anthony's being available basically makes him "the hand in front of your face". i.e. He's the most obvious, therefore, he clearly must be the best choice!

[Spider156]

I agree, I mean after all in the last ten years I can think of so many teams that have won championships without a star player on the wing. F carmello, what do we need him for! You guys kill me with this stuff, lakers-kobe/ celtics- pierce/ spurs-ginobili/ bulls-nuff said. I guess next year we will be seeing houston- martin. I'm not saying our team wont compete or play well with our current roster, but especially in the playoffs you need a player who you can give the ball to that might be able to win you a game or 2 when the team isn't playing well. But f carmello, we don't need him........... So my question to you is this, do you think any of the teams that I mentioned above would have won a championship or even got to the championship without their best wing player on the team despite the fact that they all had great overall teams? I surely don't

SPURS-GINOBILI?!?!?!?!? You have one of the greatest PFs of all time playing there. His name is Duncan, Mr. Fundemental. GTFO!!!! The Pistons almost won back to back with a superstar/hall of famer. They could've went at it even more but b.s. flew their way called Lebron James and his lover Stern.

[moofs]

Ben Wallace?

[Guy986]

I'm in favor of no trade. After half a season of watching Martin play, i'm hooked on his pumpfakes.

If Chris Paul is available, we should move the farm for him. Melo is overrated imo.

[Aaron Brooks]

Chris Paul is too ball dominant to work in an Adelman system, hes also twice the douchebag Carmelo is

[troybiles]

Question? Contract aside, would yall like Rashard Lewis of the Magic at the SF/PF position? I know that the contract is a big issue, but just curious if you believe he would fit on Houston's team well.

[Guy986]

Question? Contract aside, would yall like Rashard Lewis of the Magic at the SF/PF position? I know that the contract is a big issue, but just curious if you believe he would fit on Houston's team well.

No. We don't want Ra$hard and his 400 million contract and 10/4 production.

[troybiles]

Question? Contract aside, would yall like Rashard Lewis of the Magic at the SF/PF position? I know that the contract is a big issue, but just curious if you believe he would fit on Houston's team well.

No. We don't want Ra$hard and his 400 million contract and 10/4 production.

I said not to consider his contract. I was just wondering how he would fit or the type of player he is fits into your system. I'm using him as an example. Would that type player fit well in Houston's lineup?

[Guy986]

Question? Contract aside, would yall like Rashard Lewis of the Magic at the SF/PF position? I know that the contract is a big issue, but just curious if you believe he would fit on Houston's team well.

No. We don't want Ra$hard and his 400 million contract and 10/4 production.

I said not to consider his contract. I was just wondering how he would fit or the type of player he is fits into your system. I'm using him as an example. Would that type player fit well in Houston's lineup?

Yes. But we already have tall spot up shooters at the 3 spot: Chase Birdinger and Shane Battier.

Still no to Lewis and his ginormous contract.

[Ribalding]

I'm generally opposed to any player with a wife named "LaLa".

Can't we join hands across America and agree that's a recipe for disaster?

[rdehonney]

I agree, I mean after all in the last ten years I can think of so many teams that have won championships without a star player on the wing. F carmello, what do we need him for! You guys kill me with this stuff, lakers-kobe/ celtics- pierce/ spurs-ginobili/ bulls-nuff said. I guess next year we will be seeing houston- martin. I'm not saying our team wont compete or play well with our current roster, but especially in the playoffs you need a player who you can give the ball to that might be able to win you a game or 2 when the team isn't playing well. But f carmello, we don't need him........... So my question to you is this, do you think any of the teams that I mentioned above would have won a championship or even got to the championship without their best wing player on the team despite the fact that they all had great overall teams? I surely don't

SPURS-GINOBILI?!?!?!?!? You have one of the greatest PFs of all time playing there. His name is Duncan, Mr. Fundemental. GTFO!!!! The Pistons almost won back to back with a superstar/hall of famer. They could've went at it even more but b.s. flew their way called Lebron James and his lover Stern.

\

when the spurs needed points and duncan was getting doubled who did they give the ball to??? Anyways moofs I agree with most of what you said, and regardless of whether we get melo or not I still think our success ultimately comes down to yao's health. I'm not saying our team is anywhere near bad without melo, and i'm not saying melo elevates us to elite status just on his play alone, but I do think he brings us something that we've been missing. I also think that under adelman melo would become more of a facilitator but thats just my opinion

[spolgar]

The lack of a go to guy down the stretch when the game plan devolves into a mess is a good argument. Basketball at the beginning of the clock is not the same game when the clock is winding to the end. It's not the scoring that we are behind on. It's that there are some teams that exploit the various flaws in the individuals repertoire very very well.

Stopping Yao from scoring includes denying him the entry pass via hacking or fronting him. Double teams off of Shane can be especially devastating.

In the same vein, making Kevin Martin dribble to the left, force him to try and penetrate and put up a floater (which is a low percentage shot for anyone, and Martin's handles are not the best)

Putting height Brooks that can match about 85% of foot speed will reduce his ability to catch and shoot. He already has difficulty throwing the entry pass, now it's even more difficult. On defense, Brooks is most definitely at a disadvantage.

Making Shane create an offensive play.

Deny Scolar position from his favorite spots, beat him with length and speed.

All of those defensive ploys are not insurmountable, in fact, our players find ways around them. The problem is, all of those techniques will dip scoring percentages enough where they will perform noticeably under par for the night. When we lose, it's because the opposing team has the personnel to make everyone work for their points in these regards. There are only a few teams out west who can do all of those things to the rockets at any given night. The Lakers and the Jazz come to mind, especially with the Jazz's swap of Boozer/Korver for Al Jefferson/Raja Bell (which IMHO, is an upgrade. Especially now that Millsap is moving up the rotation. They match up very nicely to the Lakers up front.)

The getting of Carmelo Anthony, if it means we get to keep most, if not all of our starting rotation, means a) You can't leave the 3 to double/front Yao. You have to play the Anthony straight up. It also means that if you double Yao, you'd have to leave Scola or Brooks or Martin, which will be devastating.

Why I am opposed to this trade is simply because we could not possibly hope to keep our core together. The likelihood of that decreases all the more if we involve other teams who are less desperate. Especially since the Denver GM is new, he will want equal value. Trading away Carmelo for picks, expirings and cap room, cutting Billups loose somehow because it's the nice thing to do and taking JR Smith out back before stopping off at the glue factory is the absolute right thing to do for the team, but I can't see him keeping his position if he does that. He'll try and keep everything on an even keel and foot a roster that have some hope of winning 50+ games next year even if Carmelo leaves at the end of the contract for nothing.

If Morey gets Melo for expirings and picks, I would be really really surprised.