I think people are overestimating what DD & Weems will do

[[SJJ]]

I believe

[chimpston17]

I disagree with what the OP said about Demars handles, and he doesnt even need great handles to be a very good player. He can slash to the rim and use his body and footwork to finish while driving, and use quickness and momentum to get by people. Are you expecting him to be getting isos on the perimeter where he needs to beat people with crossovers and create? Because that isnt the kind of player he is, and that is fine, and that isnt the kind of offense we are going to run.

Also I dont think people are expecting DD and weems to be what VC and TMAC were like in their primes this year, I think people just bring those names up because it is nice to have a couple young athletic swingmen. Surely they are not the same and I dont think anybody expects them to be.

Also OP, consider this, if people here are expecting DD and Weems to be VC and Tmac, then why do most people talk about getting a high pick in the draft next year, and tanking, and not making the playoffs? If people really expected huge VC/tmac like things, then everyone would be talking about whether or not we can get home-court in the playoffs, not which highly touted prospect we could grab next year in the draft. Myself im cautiously optimistic and excited to see what they do with the opportunity and see what happens

[Mr.Raptorsingh]

I don't know, but I think DeRozan is taking Bosh's departure as an opportunity to elevate his game to another level. I've got high hopes for DeMar, but he is only in his 2nd yr. We've got to keep that in mind.

In fact, looking back at the 2008 draft, hopefully he is what Jennings is to the Bucks, what Evans is to the Kings, Curry to the Warriors, and when he arrives, what Rubio will be to the Wolves. All teams who are somewhat obscure in the NBA landscape, looking for a franchise hopeful to turn their fortunes around. We are no different. Hopefully, DeRozan is that guy.

[timdunkit]

I think DD is a bit of an unknown atm. He could go from bench player to a starter and a slight chance (key word slight) as an all-star. I don't see DD becoming an all-star (Just not enough skills) but I think DD is going to be valuable to this team. If he can become a defensive/slasher role player that can give you 13-15 pts and good defense, then I think we have a good piece to move forward with. But the biggest thing DD brings is that he is already an ambassador for the team and city.

I think Weems at best is going to be a bench player who can provide a little bit of everything but he doesn't have the efficiency to be a starter. He doesn't have a 3pt shot or gets to the free throw line to make his offense efficient. Sonny has a higher efg% then Demar but Demar is a lot more efficient because he gets to the line and has a higher TS%.

[Undefeated]

If you're banking on Demar "just getting it" I think you might end up being disappointed. Heck, fans are still waiting for Bargnani to "just get it". The dude is 20 years old now and should've been able to handle the ball well 6 years ago. At best he'll be a poor man's Jason Richardson, without the shooting touch.

Have you watched Summer League, or just basing this solely on last season? Because as I've said, DeMar has improved leaps and bounds between that time. It's still too premature to believe that DeMar won't ever develop those handles.

[VC-INJURY]

I disagree with what the OP said about Demars handles, and he doesnt even need great handles to be a very good player. He can slash to the rim and use his body and footwork to finish while driving, and use quickness and momentum to get by people. Are you expecting him to be getting isos on the perimeter where he needs to beat people with crossovers and create? Because that isnt the kind of player he is, and that is fine, and that isnt the kind of offense we are going to run.

Unfortunately I think the ability to handle the ball and create your own shot is a minimum requirement among any decent SG in the league. Kobe, Wade, Roy, Joe Johnson, VC, K-Mart, Ray Allen, Manu, Mayo, Rip, Ellis, Stephen Jackson, Eric Gordon, Crawford, even Evan Turner can all handle the ball well, better than DD, and can create their own shots. DD cannot simply rely on "quickness & momentum" and other aspects of physics to get past his defenders, he needs to actually learn how to handle the rock in order to be one of the better SG's in the league. Any good, competitive team will have either a SG or SF that can score off of iso's and the Raptors don't have that in DD or Weems.

[EG73]

I agree with the general idea of the OP (the title). Don't expect more than 35 wins with DeRozan and Weems as major contributors (they would play 5 mpg in a 50 win team). To be positive, I will be glad to see exciting, high energy plays in a 25 point loss. Anyway I don't care about the number of wins this year. I'm more interested about the following years, with one more lottery pics and players with more experience.

[redred9]

Unfortunately I think the ability to handle the ball and create your own shot is a minimum requirement among any decent SG in the league. Kobe, Wade, Roy, Joe Johnson, VC, K-Mart, Ray Allen, Manu, Mayo, Rip, Ellis, Stephen Jackson, Eric Gordon, Crawford, even Evan Turner can all handle the ball well, better than DD, and can create their own shots. DD cannot simply rely on "quickness & momentum" and other aspects of physics to get past his defenders, he needs to actually learn how to handle the rock in order to be one of the better SG's in the league. Any good, competitive team will have either a SG or SF that can score off of iso's and the Raptors don't have that in DD or Weems.

Give it time. I watched Stephen Jackson play briefly in Australia of all places when he was slightly younger than Derozan and he was a train wreck. Derozan looks like Kobe compared to him at the same age. Sometimes handles come along more slowly but doesn't mean they can't improve just like any other aspect of the game. I think Derozan will have better ball skills than someone like Jason RIchardson, and might have a similar career to Michael Finley if he works on his shot. Eric Gordon is a runt, of course he going to have great handles to play NBA. Rookie Evan Turner is actually older than Derozan.

Derozan also hardly turns it over- he might not have a bag full of tricks but all he really needs is that first step on you and he'll probably find himself at the free throw line anyway. If this was Derozan's rookie year coming up this board would be absolutely all over his nuts.

I think he can be an all star at some stage.

[HighOctane]

Demar Derozan: 56 ppg, 17 rpg, 10 apg 35mpg
Sonny Weems: 43 ppg, 22 rpg, 13 apg 33 mpg

Ah that's better.

[dagger]

This should spice up the discussion

ShamSports
Could DeMar Derozan be the first 20ppg shooting guard that can neither dribble nor shoot? Depends who you ask.
about 1 hour ago v

[Eating a Book]

This should spice up the discussion

ShamSports
Could DeMar Derozan be the first 20ppg shooting guard that can neither dribble nor shoot? Depends who you ask.
about 1 hour ago v

I see Sham's post and raise him one Corey Maggette.

[Ripp]

lol, sham is a funny fella. CMaggs is strong as a bull and can get to the line at will...DeMar isn't at that level scoring-wise....yet.

Though I guess to be fair, DeMar's transition game is one of the better in the league...

[Eating a Book]

lol, sham is a funny fella. CMaggs is strong as a bull and can get to the line at will...DeMar isn't at that level scoring-wise....yet.

Though I guess to be fair, DeMar's transition game is one of the better in the league...

DD gets to the line at a decent rate. He doesn't play like Maggette, for sure, but I'm just counting Maggette as a guy who can neither dribble nor shoot and managed to score twenty a game.

And by that I mean god I hate Sham so much grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

[Undefeated]

CMaggs is strong as a bull and can get to the line at will...DeMar isn't at that level scoring-wise....yet.

Word.

Well, DeMar was featured as a fifth offensive option for the Raptors last season, and he displayed a fairly good scoring level under that circumstance. A FTA/FGA ratio of 0.379 is fairly adequate for DeMar and it gives tons of hope for Raptors fans moving forward with DeMar. Small sample size, but DeMar had a DrawF of 15.8% which was only a 4.7% difference from Corey's draw foul rate.

[C_Money]

I think most people have no idea what kind of numbers they're going to put up. With their work ethic and a terrible roster, they both should put up some pretty good numbers though.

[chimpston17]

I disagree with what the OP said about Demars handles, and he doesnt even need great handles to be a very good player. He can slash to the rim and use his body and footwork to finish while driving, and use quickness and momentum to get by people. Are you expecting him to be getting isos on the perimeter where he needs to beat people with crossovers and create? Because that isnt the kind of player he is, and that is fine, and that isnt the kind of offense we are going to run.

Unfortunately I think the ability to handle the ball and create your own shot is a minimum requirement among any decent SG in the league. Kobe, Wade, Roy, Joe Johnson, VC, K-Mart, Ray Allen, Manu, Mayo, Rip, Ellis, Stephen Jackson, Eric Gordon, Crawford, even Evan Turner can all handle the ball well, better than DD, and can create their own shots. DD cannot simply rely on "quickness & momentum" and other aspects of physics to get past his defenders, he needs to actually learn how to handle the rock in order to be one of the better SG's in the league. Any good, competitive team will have either a SG or SF that can score off of iso's and the Raptors don't have that in DD or Weems.

DD is fine man hes like 20 years old relax. And I really dont think you need a sg/sf that can score off iso's to win, there is much more to the game than that. We had one of the highest scoring offenses in the league last year, it was our defence and rebounding that needs improvement amoung other things, certainly 'isolation scoring' is not the missing ingredient to success here.

And why are so many of the sg's you listed not on winning teams if having a sg with handles is the all important piece to a winner? Monta, Gordon, K-mart, Mayo, VC, Jackson, Crawford, (yeah he can do some things with the ball but also has one of the lowest win %s around). Yeah you're right, sg with handles =win. I agree that it is good to have guys that can handle the ball well and break a defense down with the dribble I understand that. Fortunately we do have some guys that can do some things with the dribble too in Jack and barbosa. Demar is a talented basketball player with alot of room to keep getting better, and I for one am happy to have him here.

I wouldnt sell him short of what he is capable of at only 20 years old, I think he does have the tools and potential to be a very good player and I think he could help plenty of teams win in the future with what he will be capable of. If you dont agree then I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree

[DreamTeam09]

If these two combined average 30 ppg, 10 rpg and 5 apg I would call their season a success.

^^^
This is actually exactly what I want to see. Add Bargs avg 20+ and this season would be a huge success imo.

[ToffKobe]

The people that actually thank these two are going to be the next jordan & pippen and are going to lead this team to a championship are either high or are just hitting puberty. I'll be glad if these two end up even barely squeaking us into the playoffs.

Please name me one person that compared DD and Weems with Pippen and Jordan or even feels they at their current state and the current state of the team will even get to the first or even second round of the playoffs let alone win a championship.

Will be awaiting the quotes from you of the so called people who think this.

[VC-INJURY]

This should spice up the discussion

ShamSports
Could DeMar Derozan be the first 20ppg shooting guard that can neither dribble nor shoot? Depends who you ask.
about 1 hour ago v

Thank you! People are so caught up with DD because he's a great dunker, but imagine him if he couldn't dunk, and you begin to see how useless he'd be. A guy who relies purely on his athleticism will be ineffective by the time he's 30 years old because they'll be a whole new generation of younger, quicker players entering the league. I don't think you can have DD on the same team as Bargnani and expect them to both average 20ppg. Bargnani needs halfcourt offense and DD needs run & gun.

DD is fine man hes like 20 years old relax. And I really dont think you need a sg/sf that can score off iso's to win, there is much more to the game than that. We had one of the highest scoring offenses in the league last year, it was our defence and rebounding that needs improvement amoung other things, certainly 'isolation scoring' is not the missing ingredient to success here.

And why are so many of the sg's you listed not on winning teams if having a sg with handles is the all important piece to a winner? Monta, Gordon, K-mart, Mayo, VC, Jackson, Crawford, (yeah he can do some things with the ball but also has one of the lowest win %s around). Yeah you're right, sg with handles =win. I agree that it is good to have guys that can handle the ball well and break a defense down with the dribble I understand that. Fortunately we do have some guys that can do some things with the dribble too in Jack and barbosa. Demar is a talented basketball player with alot of room to keep getting better, and I for one am happy to have him here.

I wouldnt sell him short of what he is capable of at only 20 years old, I think he does have the tools and potential to be a very good player and I think he could help plenty of teams win in the future with what he will be capable of. If you dont agree then I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree

VC, Jackson & Crawford were all on playoff teams so I don't know how you can't consider them to be part of a winning team. For the Raptors, the alternative to having SG's & SF's who can't score off iso's is to iso your PF, which if done correctly will win you 3 playoff games in 7 years. Here's to 7 more years of agony with Bargnani as our "franchise guy"! Fans seem to be clueless as to how dysfunctional the team's roster has been since VC left. Look at any successful playoff team this past season and they have an all-star or borderline All-star at the 2 or 3 spot who can iso and score.

Cleveland: LBJ
Boston: Pierce, Allen
Chicago: Deng, Rose (scoring pg)
Miami: Wade
Atlanta: Joe Johnson
Bucks: Salmons
Magic: VC
Bobcats: Stephen Jackson

Lakers: Kobe
Jazz: Derron (scoring pg)
Oklahoma City: Durant
Denver: Melo
Spurs: Jefferson
Suns: J-Rich
Blazers: Roy
Mavericks: Terry, Marion

Teams that don't really have a good player at the 2-3 spot, like the Bulls & Spurs were borderline playoff teams. Rose & Williams are scoring PG's and take on the the scoring load that their 2's or 3's normally would (neither team really has standout players at the 2 or 3 like the other teams).

The Raptors haven't had an all-star or even borderline all-star at the 2 OR 3 since VC left. Some may argue Rose but he didn't last very long here and was on the tail end of his career. DD just lacks that natural swagger & smoothness that these players have to their games. I really think part of being able to handle the ball is practice and the other half cannot be learned; it's just about having a knack for knowing how to do it (like playing an instrument).

All in all, I realize the teams problems are beyond simply Derozan, and I'm not blaming him for how bad the team is going to be this year. The real problem lies in BC and his terrible direction and approach to building an entire team consisting of unconventional players. I think DD would be much better off if he was on a team that was actually built properly and provided him with the opportunity to slowly take on a scoring role.

[OvertimeNO]

Although I'm not advising anyone to predict a 20 or even 15ppg season from DD, I was quite impressed by his showing in the Summer League. Yeah, I know, the Summer League. Be that as it may, he played the role of the team's primary offensive initiator, and he showed a versatility that we didn't see at all from him last season. He didn't just score from spot-up jumpshots or the fast break; he did postups, off-balance jumpers, he drove the lane, and he got to the line. Most importantly, he was consistent.

I'm really interested to see how DD develops this year as one of the primary options. I think he'll show more improvement offensively than Sonny, who didn't really show me anything different in the SL.