I think people are overestimating what DD & Weems will do

[[SJJ]]

This should spice up the discussion

ShamSports
Could DeMar Derozan be the first 20ppg shooting guard that can neither dribble nor shoot? Depends who you ask.
about 1 hour ago v

aka ask a Raptors fan and yes, he's a 20ppg guy. Ask anyone else and he's a 10ppg guy.

He won't average 20ppg, but I think he can average something around 16ppg, 4rpg and 3apg (would be amazing). He'll have an elevated role, more minutes, (many) more shots, plus he's gotten a lot better over the summer - I don't see why he can't blow up this season.

that being said, I still think his 3rd season will be the season where he shows the most improvement.

[ontnut]

When I read the title, all I thought was:
"I think people are overestimating what DD & Weems will do...for a Klondike bar"

There's really nothing here to talk about.
How about this:
Step 1: Watch first Raptors game of the year
Step 2: Formulate opinions that will continually change for the rest of the year.
Step 3: Determine when and how people are underestimating talent
Step 4: Determine when and how people are overestimating talent
Step 5: Realize that we're all idiots.
Step 6: Create thread on RGM asking why Toronto Raptors fans are all idiots.

[quickymgee]

half of the posts in this thread make me reluctant to ever come back to this board

[plainballing]

LOL! Are you foreshadowing we will draft a LeBron later?

[OlFlashy]

As much as I'd like them to really take off and flourish next season (or the next) I just don't see it happening. I think some people on the board view have them pinned as the next VC/T-mac combo but I don't think they'll ever be anything close to that.

NOBODY has expressed those expectations. Thanks for comin out

[Undefeated]

People are so caught up with DD because he's a great dunker, but imagine him if he couldn't dunk, and you begin to see how useless he'd be. A guy who relies purely on his athleticism will be ineffective by the time he's 30 years old because they'll be a whole new generation of younger, quicker players entering the league. I don't think you can have DD on the same team as Bargnani and expect them to both average 20ppg. Bargnani needs halfcourt offense and DD needs run & gun.

Are you sure? DeMar being athletic does help him to overcome some part, but even without the athleticism, DeMar should be fine due to the 6'7" frame he possess at SG. Look at Summer League, DeMar was getting the ball at the low-block/baseline and was backing down his man, usually finishing with a Kobe-esque fadaway jumpshot. One thing most don't realize is that, DeMar is a really, really crafty player, he has some pretty amazing footwork to offset a few of his ball handling deficiencies. I was pretty amaze by some of the spin moves DeMar pulled off to get inside the paint last season.

DeMar excelling in a RnG offense is usually overstated. DeMar can still live within a half-court offense too by running a motion offense. Run DeMar off of screens for a mid-range jumpshot, backdoor cuts and a PnR as DeMar started to utilize are a few examples to take advantage of the size/quickness in the half-court set.

[sanity]

Amazing footwork? I'm not so sure about that. Its his athleticism and 'wireyness' that makes him an interesting player... but still, he wasn't fit to be a starter last season and the verdict is still out about him this season until we actually see him play. I for one wouldn't be thrilled about him mimicing Kobe Bryant's shot selection when he's up against pro league defenders--few players in the league can get away with taking low % fadeaway shots yet still be an asset to their team's offense.

[roundhead0]

I'm guessing we'll see 14 PPG from Derozan this year.

Weems will depend on how much playing time he gets, and whether or not he turns into an undisciplined chucker or plays with more discipline.

[OvertimeNO]

I'm guessing we'll see 14 PPG from Derozan this year.

Weems will depend on how much playing time he gets, and whether or not he turns into an undisciplined chucker or plays with more discipline.

If Weems holds up defensively, he'll see minutes. But yeah, SL is a chance to show off your versatility, and Weems seemed pretty much the same to me, so I don't have high hopes for him changing up his game this season.

[Undefeated]

If Weems holds up defensively, he'll see minutes. But yeah, SL is a chance to show off your versatility, and Weems seemed pretty much the same to me, so I don't have high hopes for him changing up his game this season.

For the most part, Sonny stayed the same, but he did add a three-point arsenal to his game which should keep him out on the floor for extended minutes with a lack of three-point shooters.

[OvertimeNO]

If Weems holds up defensively, he'll see minutes. But yeah, SL is a chance to show off your versatility, and Weems seemed pretty much the same to me, so I don't have high hopes for him changing up his game this season.

For the most part, Sonny stayed the same, but he did add a three-point arsenal to his game which should keep him out on the floor for extended minutes with a lack of three-point shooters.

I'm not completely sold on his three-pointer. I mean, Jamario Moon extended his range too, but I don't know many people who considered that a good thing.

I'm not bashing on Weems at all, btw. He's very efficient at what he does (the mid-range jumper) and for this season I'd rather see him stick with it until other aspects of his game catch up, rather than try to force the issue.

[Alfred]

Jamario Moon was actually a pretty efficient shooter. 56% TS% in his few seasons here.

[OvertimeNO]

Jamario Moon was actually a pretty efficient shooter. 56% TS% in his few seasons here.

Yeah, I had a feeling that he was a bad example the moment I used him. I guess I just couldn't get past my bias against him. Oh well, I'll own my mistake.

How about Jason Kapono as a slasher?

[Alfred]

Yes, Kapono was pretty terrible at that. How many times do you have to dribble the ball off your shoe to realize that's not your role?

[Undefeated]

I'm not completely sold on his three-pointer. I mean, Jamario Moon extended his range too, but I don't know many people who considered that a good thing.

I'm not bashing on Weems at all, btw. He's very efficient at what he does (the mid-range jumper) and for this season I'd rather see him stick with it until other aspects of his game catch up, rather than try to force the issue.

Same. I don't expect Sonny to take the three-pointer all the time nor force the issue, but it's good to see Sonny adding a three-point shot to his offensive game where he can take them when defense decides to cheat on him.

[OvertimeNO]

Yes, Kapono was pretty terrible at that. How many times do you have to dribble the ball off your shoe to realize that's not your role?

In his case, the answer is "until you are traded for the garbagest garbage man in the history of garbage or man"

[OvertimeNO]

I'm not completely sold on his three-pointer. I mean, Jamario Moon extended his range too, but I don't know many people who considered that a good thing.

I'm not bashing on Weems at all, btw. He's very efficient at what he does (the mid-range jumper) and for this season I'd rather see him stick with it until other aspects of his game catch up, rather than try to force the issue.

Same. I don't expect Sonny to take the three-pointer all the time nor force the issue, but it's good to see Sonny adding a three-point shot to his offensive game where he can take them when defense decides to cheat on him.

Rip Hamilton took a while before he starting using the three on a consistent basis, but that didn't stop him from taking defences apart with his off-ball movement and screen usage and such. I'd rather see Weems master the one dimension he's shown to be pretty effective in, before adding another (arguably less effective) one just because it's the easier solution to the problem.

[Undefeated]

Rip Hamilton took a while before he starting using the three on a consistent basis, but that didn't stop him from taking defences apart with his off-ball movement and screen usage and such. I'd rather see Weems master the one dimension he's shown to be pretty effective in, before adding another (arguably less effective) one just because it's the easier solution to the problem.

Agreed. One thing we need Sonny to continue to take and make those mid-range jumpshots is because it keeps the defense honest, even though it's not the most efficient shot. Sonny using screens and playing off-ball is going to really force the defense to move which is going to help the Raptors as a whole. Another area I'd like to see Sonny take advantage is the post. When Sonny posted-up Ray, it was a thing of beauty and I want to see more of that.

[Rude Boy 1]

The thing I think that is lost on the people who say they are overrated is the work ethic of these two. At a certain level its not about how much potential you have its about how hard you work! DeMar and Sonny are extremely hard workers who will improve simply because they put in the hrs.

VC and Tmac were definitely way more talented but in terms of work ethic and dedication Weems and DeRozan have them beat.

Just wait guys this is only year two they will continue to get better and who knows what the limit will be!

[Dr Positivity]

Actually, I'd say Weems role on our team is plausibly understated. Especially compared to Derozan

Weems is unafraid of taking shots, for good or bad. He has no problem taking 13 shots+ in a game with 0 FTAs. Remember our team is without an offensive leader or creator. Our best scorer Bargnani is an off ball oppurtunist. We will take as many poor midrange shots as anyone next year. Without a shot creator defenses will guard the rim and 3pt line and dare us to shoot 20 footers. Guess what Weems likes to take.

After Bosh's injury last year, he put up 13.5 FGA a game. He took a stronger hold of the offense than Derozan simply because of far less conscience about shooting.

With Bosh's possessions exiting, someone will join Bargnani as a 13 FGA+ guy. Could be Derozan. Could be Barbosa. But it could also be Weems as the go to wing player on a **** team. That's what happened in the last 6 games last year