Poll: Grade Ernie Grunfeld

[montestewart]

If nothing else, EG traded Thomas and got Haywood unquestioned starter spot, then traded Haywood and got McGee default starter spot. Maybe he can trade McGee, so Armstrong can finally get sufficient minutes to show his game.

[leswizards]

I like EG, but I hate his mile wide inch deep theory of stacking the roster with talent. Looking at the Wizards roster, and one should expect Gil, Howard, and Dray to play 36+ mpg. Kirk should get 24 mpg. Hopefully, Wall will play to a level where he merits 36+ mpg. McGee, Seraphim, and Yi should get the bulk of the 48 mpg game at center. That means Booker, Young and Thornton will be battling for a measly 12 mpg at back up small forward and any garbage and injury minutes that come available, while Booker, Thornton, Seraphim and Yi battle for the measly 12 mpg at back up power forrward and any garbage and injury minutes that come available. To me that is a stupid waste of first round picks and cap space. To me, it would be smarter to pick 3 out of Young, Thornton, Booker and Yi, and package them for the best player the team can get. Then let that player play whatever minutes are available.

[nate33]

To me that is a stupid waste of first round picks and cap space. To me, it would be smarter to pick 3 out of Young, Thornton, Booker and Yi, and package them for the best player the team can get. Then let that player play whatever minutes are available.

Easier said than done. No decent GM will take the other side of that deal. You never trade quality for quantity, particularly when you are talking about marginal rotation players. One half decent starter is better than four 15 mpg role players.

No, what you do is acquire as much upside talent you can get at the end of the bench and hope that one or two of them pan out. That's EGs plan. As long as one of Young, Thornton, Booker or Yi develops into a starting caliber player, then the sacrifices to get those players will have paid off.

[closg00]

Called Denver about Melo

Grade A

[mohammed10]

Next poll question? Which diet should Ted & Ernie go on, Jenny Craig or Weight Watchers?

You have to consider the long-term financial implications of such a decision. You see Shula and friends on Weight Watchers all the time. So Ted and EG may have the inside advantage there.

Personally, I want to see them blaze a trail to South Beach (diet, that is)

[LyricalRico]

Called Denver about Melo

Grade A

[JonathanJoseph]

Called Denver about Melo

Grade A

Yawn.

Carmelo Anthony has had good-to-extremely good teams and has 1 more playoff series win than Gilbert Arenas.

Anthony = Overrated

[closg00]

Any thoughts on our overall draft strategy now that it appears that Hamady Ndiaye will not be signed? We appear to be 0 for 3 when it comes to prospects that could realistically be part of a rotation with young Wall....at-least for this year. Would you have made the same picks given the get-tough mandate?

2010 Picks: Wall, Seraphin, Booker, Ndiaye

Likely rotation:

PG Wall/Hinrich
SG Arenas/Young
SF Thornton/Howard
PF Blatche/Yi
C McGee/Armstrong
Garbage time: Seraphin, Booker

Without a draft-redo of picks 17 & 23, I would have taken a flyer on Brian Zoubek with that 56th pick at the time, he probably would have stuck.

[nate33]

Any thoughts on our overall draft strategy now that it appears that Hamady Ndiaye will not be signed? We appear to be 0 for 3 when it comes to prospects that could realistically be part of a rotation with young Wall....at-least for this year. Would you have made the same picks given the get-tough mandate?

2010 Picks: Wall, Seraphin, Booker, Ndiaye

Likely rotation:

PG Wall/Hinrich
SG Arenas/Young
SF Thornton/Howard
PF Blatche/Yi
C McGee/Armstrong
Garbage time: Seraphin, Booker

Without a draft-redo of picks 17 & 23, I would have taken a flyer on Brian Zoubek with that 56th pick at the time, he probably would have stuck.

It's impossible to answer the question. First of all, I don't much care how our picks perform this season. I'm looking 3-4 years out. Secondly, who says that Booker and Seraphin won't perform well this year? And finally, we have no idea if Zoubek will be a useful NBA player. 3 years down the road, Ndiaye might be the better player.

[JonathanJoseph]

Any thoughts on our overall draft strategy now that it appears that Hamady Ndiaye will not be signed? We appear to be 0 for 3 when it comes to prospects that could realistically be part of a rotation with young Wall....at-least for this year. Would you have made the same picks given the get-tough mandate?

2010 Picks: Wall, Seraphin, Booker, Ndiaye

Likely rotation:

PG Wall/Hinrich
SG Arenas/Young
SF Thornton/Howard
PF Blatche/Yi
C McGee/Armstrong
Garbage time: Seraphin, Booker

Without a draft-redo of picks 17 & 23, I would have taken a flyer on Brian Zoubek with that 56th pick at the time, he probably would have stuck.

So are you telling us that Ernie Grunfeld's rebuilding plan has been so overwhelmingly successful that promising young prospects won't have a chance to earn PT this season?

That's what I thought too. And I assume that would hold for any prospects at #17/#30/#35.

[closg00]

Any thoughts on our overall draft strategy now that it appears that Hamady Ndiaye will not be signed? We appear to be 0 for 3 when it comes to prospects that could realistically be part of a rotation with young Wall....at-least for this year. Would you have made the same picks given the get-tough mandate?

2010 Picks: Wall, Seraphin, Booker, Ndiaye

Likely rotation:

PG Wall/Hinrich
SG Arenas/Young
SF Thornton/Howard
PF Blatche/Yi
C McGee/Armstrong
Garbage time: Seraphin, Booker

Without a draft-redo of picks 17 & 23, I would have taken a flyer on Brian Zoubek with that 56th pick at the time, he probably would have stuck.

So are you telling us that Ernie Grunfeld's rebuilding plan has been so overwhelmingly successful that promising young prospects won't have a chance to earn PT this season?
That's what I thought too. And I assume that would hold for any prospects at #17/#30/#35.

No, I didn't write that. No-one we drafted will be part of an OKC-type "core" to surround and play with Wall....at-least not for this-year. Booker at PF, and Seraphin at Center are both under-sized for their positions.... and we didn't sign Hamady. Some think that Flip has a mandate to play these youngs together. With our 8-9 man rotation, I don't see how Booker or Seraphin receive much court-time with Wall this year. Our Young core is really Wall, McGee and Blatche.

[WizarDynasty]

i would argue now that Seraphin is a better overall player than mcgee at this exact moment in time.

[nate33]

No-one we drafted will be part of an OKC-type "core" to surround and play with Wall....at-least not for this-year. Booker at PF, and Seraphin at Center are both under-sized for their positions.... and we didn't sign Hamady. Some think that Flip has a mandate to play these youngs together. With our 8-9 man rotation, I don't see how Booker or Seraphin receive much court-time with Wall this year. Our Young core is really Wall, McGee and Blatche.

OKC core pieces were drafted with high lottery picks over 4 years. We've had one high lottery pick since the beginning of the rebuild. We drafted Wall. I say we're 1 for 1.

OKC did draft Serge Ibaka at #24 if you want to call him a core piece. It took two seasons for him to break out. I think it's only fair to give Seraphin and Booker at least 2 seasons.

Interestingly, OKC managed to draft a bunch of other late round gems, only to trade them away. They drafted Landry at #31, Glen Davis at #35, and Beaubois at 25. None of those guys played a game in an OKC uniform.

[JonathanJoseph]

No, I didn't write that. No-one we drafted will be part of an OKC-type "core" to surround and play with Wall....at-least not for this-year. Booker at PF, and Seraphin at Center are both under-sized for their positions.... and we didn't sign Hamady. Some think that Flip has a mandate to play these youngs together. With our 8-9 man rotation, I don't see how Booker or Seraphin receive much court-time with Wall this year. Our Young core is really Wall, McGee and Blatche.

Yeah, I got it. You have drawn the conclusion that Grunfeld and every move he makes sucks and construct backwards arguments that support your conclusion.

I was merely taking the opposite view of the same reality and trying to make that point.

Of course, either way you've already drawn conclusions about the value of players who haven't even played a single game yet, and that's insane by itself. And if you keep looking at the OKC model as some sort of holy grail strategy, you'll continue being disappointed and/or confused since that's not how the Wizards are doing it.

[closg00]

No, I didn't write that. No-one we drafted will be part of an OKC-type "core" to surround and play with Wall....at-least not for this-year. Booker at PF, and Seraphin at Center are both under-sized for their positions.... and we didn't sign Hamady. Some think that Flip has a mandate to play these youngs together. With our 8-9 man rotation, I don't see how Booker or Seraphin receive much court-time with Wall this year. Our Young core is really Wall, McGee and Blatche.

Yeah, I got it. You have drawn the conclusion that Grunfeld and every move he makes sucks and construct backwards arguments that support your conclusion.

I was merely taking the opposite view of the same reality and trying to make that point.

Of course, either way you've already drawn conclusions about the value of players who haven't even played a single game yet, and that's insane by itself. And if you keep looking at the OKC model as some sort of holy grail strategy, you'll continue being disappointed and/or confused since that's not how the Wizards are doing it.

I gave Ernie an A on the previous page. As someone who comes to the boards primarily to support Ernie's moves, I challenge you to make your arguments based upon the substance of what was written. Nate just made an excellent point about the number of high-picks that OKC has had over the years (while pointing-out their excellent drafting record). I would say that why couldn't picks 17 & 23 be considered core, you always have next-years draft. You didn't address any of the points really.

@ Nate, I qualified what I said about the new guys by saying it applied to THIS year. I could totally be wrong, Seraphin & Booker could see lots of court-time this year which would be great.

[DaRealHibachi]

Called Denver about Melo

Grade A

Yawn.

Carmelo Anthony has had good-to-extremely good teams and has 1 more playoff series win than Gilbert Arenas.

Anthony = Overrated

I don't necessarily agree with your reasoning (West being tougher than East), but your point still stands... Anthony (atleast when compared to Gil) is overrated...

Gil has a slightly higher TS%, even including the past 3 season where he shot way below his average... Carmelo is a more versatile scorer and a better defender, but I think Gil's defensive shortcomings are a bit overstated; his position is arguably (the most) more difficult one to defend and he's consistently been part of one the worst defensive teams in the league... He still has ways to go before he considered average though...

[JonathanJoseph]

No, I didn't write that. No-one we drafted will be part of an OKC-type "core" to surround and play with Wall....at-least not for this-year. Booker at PF, and Seraphin at Center are both under-sized for their positions.... and we didn't sign Hamady. Some think that Flip has a mandate to play these youngs together. With our 8-9 man rotation, I don't see how Booker or Seraphin receive much court-time with Wall this year. Our Young core is really Wall, McGee and Blatche.

Yeah, I got it. You have drawn the conclusion that Grunfeld and every move he makes sucks and construct backwards arguments that support your conclusion.

I was merely taking the opposite view of the same reality and trying to make that point.

Of course, either way you've already drawn conclusions about the value of players who haven't even played a single game yet, and that's insane by itself. And if you keep looking at the OKC model as some sort of holy grail strategy, you'll continue being disappointed and/or confused since that's not how the Wizards are doing it.

I gave Ernie an A on the previous page. As someone who comes to the boards primarily to support Ernie's moves, I challenge you to make your arguments based upon the substance of what was written. Nate just made an excellent point about the number of high-picks that OKC has had over the years (while pointing-out their excellent drafting record). I would say that why couldn't picks 17 & 23 be considered core, you always have next-years draft. You didn't address any of the points really.

@ Nate, I qualified what I said about the new guys by saying it applied to THIS year. I could totally be wrong, Seraphin & Booker could see lots of court-time this year which would be great.

Address what points? You've already drawn conclusions about the impact of 2 guys who haven't played yet and wonder why #17 & #23 draft picks can't be considered core when those draft positions would suggest probably a 50% of becoming a starting caliber player.

I don't even know what to refute because they are silly premises.

[closg00]

Address what points? You've already drawn conclusions about the impact of 2 guys who haven't played yet and wonder why #17 & #23 draft picks can't be considered core when those draft positions would suggest probably a 50% of becoming a starting caliber player.

I don't even know what to refute because they are silly premises.

The points? They were already written above.

1. Any thoughts on our overall draft strategy now that it appears that Hamady Ndiaye will not be signed?
Anyone out there have an opinion on how the pick was used?

2. We appear to be 0 for 3 when it comes to prospects that could realistically be part of a rotation with young Wall....at-least for this year.
Hamady won't be signed, KS probably won't see much PT, Booker is the X-factor, perhaps he might be tried at SF. Disagree?

3.Would you have made the same picks given the get-tough mandate?
A legit question that I throw out there, given Ted's mandate to rebuild with youth, would you have made the same picks?

I invite anyone who cares to have a discussion w/o throwing an online tantrum to join-in.

[nate33]

1. Any thoughts on our overall draft strategy now that it appears that Hamady Ndiaye will not be signed?
Ndiaye is merely a draft-and-stash. That's neither good nor bad at this point. We'll have to look at it in a year or two. If he never comes over to the NBA, then it's a bad pick. But even so, it's not really a reason to bash EG. It's pretty freakin rare for the #56 pick to pan out.

2. We appear to be 0 for 3 when it comes to prospects that could realistically be part of a rotation with young Wall....at-least for this year.
Again, I don't understand why you consider being "realistically part of the rotation" this year as your criteria for success. Big men drafted outside of the lottery are almost never successful in their rookie seasons. If Seraphin pans out to be a starting-caliber player in 2013, then I would consider this draft a success even if he plays just 200 minutes this year. And as you pointed out, Booker may well be part of the rotation this year.

3.Would you have made the same picks given the get-tough mandate?
I don't know. How can anybody know at this point? I'll let you know next summer.

[TheGreatWall]

Closg00 aka