Wizard Fans Trade Idea (Crash and Arenas)

[Jaruff]

Blatche should not be playing center. He's worse on offense AND defense when they put him there.

I can't say that he is. Stats don't lie:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/s ... yerId=2746

Ideally, if we grabbed him, he would start at PF with Tyrus coming off of the bench until Tyrus can be dealt or can adapt to playing the three. The Nuggets like Tyrus and I would be very open to a Tyrus for Al Harrington + cash swap in December if we already had Blatche.

[DY_nasty]

Uh... no.

http://www.82games.com/0910/09WAS20.HTM

Scroll down to the positional stats, Blatche still get his points... sort of, but the team's defense definitely pays for it.

[Battery]

Blatche should not be playing center. He's worse on offense AND defense when they put him there.

I can't say that he is. Stats don't lie:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/s ... yerId=2746

Ideally, if we grabbed him, he would start at PF with Tyrus coming off of the bench until Tyrus can be dealt or can adapt to playing the three. The Nuggets like Tyrus and I would be very open to a Tyrus for Al Harrington + cash swap in December if we already had Blatche.

Al Harrington? You've now added a forward to your all chucking team and a good one at that. Nobody chucks up more ill advised shots than Al Harrington.

[BigSlam]

Blatche should not be playing center. He's worse on offense AND defense when they put him there.

Blatche on his worst offensive day is still better than Diop, Nazr, and Kwame, plus he's got two great weak side shot blocking defenders to help with bigger center in Tyrus and Crash.

I agree with this. I'd have no problem playing Blatche at the 5 with T2 and Crash either side of him.

The Wizards team D might have sucked with Blatche playing the 5, but I think that would have more to do with the Wizards sucking as a whole than anything.

[DY_nasty]

I agree with this. I'd have no problem playing Blatche at the 5 with T2 and Crash either side of him.

The Wizards team D might have sucked with Blatche playing the 5, but I think that would have more to do with the Wizards sucking as a whole than anything.

Blatche can't guard anyone down low, say what you want about frankencenter, but they all did a decent job for the most part one on one in the post.

Blatche plays the weakside well, but if you bring him in we're looking a defense with 3 great help defenders and no one to actually play solid defense down in the post other than Kwame and Diop (lol)

[SWedd523]

He's better on offense and defense than our current starter (Nazr) so I have no problem with bringing him in.






As long as the deal is acceptable.

[Jaruff]

Uh... no.

http://www.82games.com/0910/09WAS20.HTM

Scroll down to the positional stats, Blatche still get his points... sort of, but the team's defense definitely pays for it.

See below.

Al Harrington? You've now added a forward to your all chucking team and a good one at that. Nobody chucks up more ill advised shots than Al Harrington.

Still need a few more. Antoine Walker is one of my favorites. Dude shoots threes because he can't shoot fours. I love that approach. I wonder what Steve Francis is doing these days.

I'd rather have an explosive offense and a mediocre defense than a terrible offense and excellent defense. I'll take Blatche's lacking defense if he can consistently score inside, which he can. He has some range too, which is great. We arguably had one of the best, if not the best, defenses last year. It won't hurt to downgrade a little to improve our atrocious offense.

[BigSlam]

I agree with this. I'd have no problem playing Blatche at the 5 with T2 and Crash either side of him.

The Wizards team D might have sucked with Blatche playing the 5, but I think that would have more to do with the Wizards sucking as a whole than anything.

Blatche can't guard anyone down low, say what you want about frankencenter, but they all did a decent job for the most part one on one in the post.

Blatche plays the weakside well, but if you bring him in we're looking a defense with 3 great help defenders and no one to actually play solid defense down in the post other than Kwame and Diop (lol)

True, but it's not like he is a total spazz on D. Our D as a whole is very soild, what we really need is offense - preference being inside offense and Blatche would bring that.

[DY_nasty]

True, but it's not like he is a total spazz on D. Our D as a whole is very soild, what we really need is offense - preference being inside offense and Blatche would bring that.

Can't argue with that

[Bassman]

I agree with this. I'd have no problem playing Blatche at the 5 with T2 and Crash either side of him.

The Wizards team D might have sucked with Blatche playing the 5, but I think that would have more to do with the Wizards sucking as a whole than anything.

Blatche can't guard anyone down low, say what you want about frankencenter, but they all did a decent job for the most part one on one in the post.

Blatche plays the weakside well, but if you bring him in we're looking a defense with 3 great help defenders and no one to actually play solid defense down in the post other than Kwame and Diop (lol)

True, but it's not like he is a total spazz on D. Our D as a whole is very soild, what we really need is offense - preference being inside offense and Blatche would bring that.

Agree that Blatche would be an "OK"defender, nothing to write home about, but he would create serious match-up issues with many 5's with his offensive skills, plus add his rebounding (which is pretty good). I've said before that as big a gamble Arenas is, I'd place it if we could get he and Blatche without giving up Crash or Jax.

[Jaruff]

Actually, if we could get a:

Crash + DJ + Diaw for Arenas + Blatche + Howard + Picks

deal going, I'd take it. Howard was not good this year, even before the injuries, but I would attribute that to a lack of playing time versus declining skill. I think by December, when we could make such a trade, he should be back to form. If anything, he'd be a decent one-year stop gap until we could upgrade. If he's not performing well, ask for Al Thornton or Nick Young instead of Howard.

That deal opens up a lot of possibilities for us.

Arenas | Jax | Thornton/Howard | Thomas | Blatche

Or, if Hendo's ready, give him a chance to rise or flop by moving Jax over to the wing. What the deal comes down to is switching Crash for Blatche, which I think helps us in the long-term. Arenas is the risk but if it really becomes that bad, I'm sure Orlando would do an Arenas/Lewis switch. That's terrible but hey, that's the absolute worst case scenario.

If Blatche is really best at PF, move Thomas to another team for a wing or center. Denver would probably consider sending Nene to us for Thomas and cap filler if they trade Melo.

Arenas | Jax | Thornton/Howard | Blatche | Nene is a nice core that can win playoff games.

And, if Howard gets back to his Dallas days, he'll be a seamless transition from Crash. If not, it gives Hendo or Brown or McGuire or even Carroll (woo!) to step up and do something special.

[Paydro70]

Agree that Blatche would be an "OK"defender, nothing to write home about, but he would create serious match-up issues with many 5's with his offensive skills, plus add his rebounding (which is pretty good). I've said before that as big a gamble Arenas is, I'd place it if we could get he and Blatche without giving up Crash or Jax.

But that's not how it plays out... he scores fewer points on inefficient shooting and fouls himself out of games (5.2 per 48) when he's forced to play center. He's not a very good offensive player at the center position, he scores most of his points on jump shots or off of dunks, his back to the basket game is not that well-developed.

Frankly he really does duplicate a lot of what Tyrus does. Maybe he's better than Tyrus, but there's not much reason to think he would make a big difference at the center spot.

[DaRealHibachi]

Easy no, even for Wizards fans...

Arenas is still a legit 1st option in the NBA, even when he's shaking off rust like last year... He hasn't played for 2 seasons and still managed to put up All-Star numbers, I can only imagine how good he will be when he's "really" back...

The "chucker" should also be dropped, since he's more efficient than allot of other 1st options career-wise, even when including when he played on a bum leg and with rust the last 3 seasons...

The knee is also overstated, it wasn't bothering him last year, at all...

He's overpaid, yes, but we got enough money, plus Blatche and Wall on very cheap contracts to balance that out...

Our owner also stated that Arenas will play in a Wiz jersey (multiple times on his blog) and hypes him up whenever he gets the chance... He doesn't want/need to trade Arenas now, b/c he knows he'll get these type of offers in return... Our Front Office has gotten over the incident, I just wish the rest of the league, media & fans did...

Blatche is a great player, but can be pretty inconsistent when not playing enough minutes... Start him, and he's a beast...

Like I said before, a easy no...

[DaRealHibachi]

Agree that Blatche would be an "OK"defender, nothing to write home about, but he would create serious match-up issues with many 5's with his offensive skills, plus add his rebounding (which is pretty good). I've said before that as big a gamble Arenas is, I'd place it if we could get he and Blatche without giving up Crash or Jax.

But that's not how it plays out... he scores fewer points on inefficient shooting and fouls himself out of games (5.2 per 48) when he's forced to play center. He's not a very good offensive player at the center position, he scores most of his points on jump shots or off of dunks, his back to the basket game is not that well-developed.

Frankly he really does duplicate a lot of what Tyrus does. Maybe he's better than Tyrus, but there's not much reason to think he would make a big difference at the center spot.

You haven't seen him play AT-ALL, do you...???

[Paydro70]

Easy no, even for Wizards fans...

Arenas is still a legit 1st option in the NBA, even when he's shaking off rust like last year... He hasn't played for 2 seasons and still managed to put up All-Star numbers, I can only imagine how good he will be when he's "really" back...

Not to sound too much like Battery here, but when you have the 3rd-highest usage rate in the NBA and are paid 20m a year, you damn well better put up "all-star" per-game stats.

The "chucker" should also be dropped, since he's more efficient than allot of other 1st options career-wise, even when including when he played on a bum leg and with rust the last 3 seasons...

What does career-wise matter? The entire point is that he's not the same guy anymore, and he's not more efficient than anybody anymore. Last year he had a .511 TS%, 47th of 67 PGs. I started to do a list of first options who were more efficient than Arenas, but it's actually easier to go the other way and do the ones he was more efficient than: Whoever you count from the Pistons, Brandon Jennings if he counts, Baron Davis. That's it.

The knee is also overstated, it wasn't bothering him last year, at all...

You called it a bum leg literally one sentence ago. Was that a healthy Arenas or not?

He's overpaid, yes, but we got enough money, plus Blatche and Wall on very cheap contracts to balance that out...

Our owner also stated that Arenas will play in a Wiz jersey (multiple times on his blog) and hypes him up whenever he gets the chance... He doesn't want/need to trade Arenas now, b/c he knows he'll get these type of offers in return... Our Front Office has gotten over the incident, I just wish the rest of the league, media & fans did...

Blatche is a great player, but can be pretty inconsistent when not playing enough minutes... Start him, and he's a beast...

Like I said before, a easy no...

Blatche's efficiency doesn't change when he starts, and neither does his rebounding. He just gets more minutes, with which he takes more shots, which means more points per game. One thing he does not do with those shots is take them with his back to the basket. He makes exactly 1 shot per game that isn't a dunk, layup, or jumper.

My point here isn't to diss these players. But Arenas wasn't an all-star for good reason, and Blatche is not a center (hell, Tyrus is a better rebounder and shot blocker anyway). If the Wizards want to keep them, great, I don't blame them, because the offers aren't going to blow you away.

[DaRealHibachi]

Not to sound too much like Battery here, but when you have the 3rd-highest usage rate in the NBA and are paid 20m a year, you damn well better put up "all-star" per-game stats.

Which is exactly my point, high usage or not, he's played as an All-Star while he was still rusty... Next year he'll play roughly the same minutes, and be much more efficient... Rust will be brushed off, and playing next to Wall will only help him...

What does career-wise matter? The entire point is that he's not the same guy anymore, and he's not more efficient than anybody anymore. Last year he had a .511 TS%, 47th of 67 PGs. I started to do a list of first options who were more efficient than Arenas, but it's actually easier to go the other way and do the ones he was more efficient than: Whoever you count from the Pistons, Brandon Jennings if he counts, Baron Davis. That's it.

So what you're saying is b/c he had an off year last, he isn't an top PG in the league anymore...??? Guess everyone who haven't played for a while, came back in the league, guns blazing...??? That's why career stats DO matter, it's his average, he's able of putting up those stats when he's back... There's no indication that he can't...

You called it a bum leg literally one sentence ago. Was that a healthy Arenas or not?

I probably should've chosen my words better, I meant; He was playing on a bum knee for 2 seasons, last year the injury wasn't bothering him, he was just rusty...

Blatche's efficiency doesn't change when he starts, and neither does his rebounding. He just gets more minutes, with which he takes more shots, which means more points per game. One thing he does not do with those shots is take them with his back to the basket. He makes exactly 1 shot per game that isn't a dunk, layup, or jumper.

My point here isn't to diss these players. But Arenas wasn't an all-star for good reason, and Blatche is not a center (hell, Tyrus is a better rebounder and shot blocker anyway). If the Wizards want to keep them, great, I don't blame them, because the offers aren't going to blow you away.

Like I said before, you probably haven't seen Blatche play much... He plays better when he starts, per-36 his numbers are better (if only by a little)... He's just one of those guys who's confidence grows by miles when he starts... Too bad there's no way to filter the games he started, then you'll see a major improvement in his game/stats/confidence...

He uses his post moves to either create separation or to get closer to the basket, then finishes with with a dunk, lay-up, or jumper indeed... Granted, he's not known for using a hook shot, but don't tell me that's the only post move there is, and the up and under (Blatche's fav), turnaround jumper, fade away jumper, drop step etc. aren't post game related shots.. (which he uses allot)

Anyway, to not completely derail this thread, I would not do the trade (skill-wise or money-wise), simply b/c after this coming season, Arenas' contract will be another year shorter, and his value will be much higher than it is now... And giving up an future star in Blatche is a bitter pill to swallow...

[daidalos]

Anyway, to not completely derail this thread, I would not do the trade (skill-wise or money-wise), simply b/c after this coming season, Arenas' contract will be another year shorter, and his value will be much higher than it is now... And giving up an future star in Blatche is a bitter pill to swallow...

Yes. But on the other hand, he could easily get injured again, or do something stupid again, which would make him untradeable. So the Wizards have to pay him 20MM/year for 3 years. We see that you don't really care about this aspect cause you overestimate Arenas and it is not your money after all. But for the Wizards front office I think this is an interesting trade. High risk, high reward ... it also means high risk, big fail.

[Wizardspride]

Anyway, to not completely derail this thread, I would not do the trade (skill-wise or money-wise), simply b/c after this coming season, Arenas' contract will be another year shorter, and his value will be much higher than it is now... And giving up an future star in Blatche is a bitter pill to swallow...

Yes. But on the other hand, he could easily get injured again, or do something stupid again, which would make him untradeable. So the Wizards have to pay him 20MM/year for 3 years. We see that you don't really care about this aspect cause you overestimate Arenas and it is not your money after all..

Or perhap you're underestimating him.

Thats a possibility as well......

[BigSlam]

So what you're saying is b/c he had an off year last, he isn't an top PG in the league anymore...??? Guess everyone who haven't played for a while, came back in the league, guns blazing...???

Awesome.