Anthony Randolph to Ind blocked by Walsh

[Indy2thaWindy]

Randolph is not worth a 1st, a 2nd AND Rush.

Agree

LOL. fools.

That's definitely fair value for Randolph. We need a 4 we get iit.

[FreeRon]

A top-20 protected pick for 3 years that becomes a second rounder after that MAY come close to being fair....and I'm not even being a homer here. Both have 2 years experience. Rush has started 83 of 157 games, averaging 27.3 minutes a game. Randolph has started 30 of 96, averaging 19.6 minutes per game. Shooting percentages are almost identical, Brandon being a wing shooting 3% lower than Radolph. Rush averages 0.4 points a game less, 2.3 rebounds a game less AS A GUARD. I'm not at all trying to say Rush is better. That would be homerish. I'm saying that we shouldn't be giving up a first, a second, AND a guard who puts up similar numbers to get a forward who started 15 games a year in Golden State. I understand you can't compare players from different positions, I just wanted to point out how much everyone wants to get rid of Rush when the guy everyone wants is about the same. I would give a first rounder with top 3 protection straight up for Randolph, but it would have to be someone like McRoberts going back to open the roster spot to make it fair. Rush for Randolph I would do, but again that's being a homer.

[Indy2thaWindy]

IMO. you can't compare the potentials of Rush and Randolph.

[Miller4ever]

If you're saying that because you think the gap is too large, I have to disagree. Neither player can really make it on mental maturity, but Rush is closer to meeting the physical demands of his position in the NBA and already has good defense.

[FreeRon]

Be careful with the "p" word. Remember Jonathan Bender? Tons of potential, couldn't stay healthy. Remember Shawne Williams? Tons of potential, couldn't grow up. Remember Kwame Brown? Tons of potential simply never realized. You could fill a book with names of players that were given huge contracts and selected with high picks based on potential that was never realized. You'd be hard-pressed to find a player who was drafted solely based on potential and actually realized it. I'm only old enough to remember about 15 years of NBA, but the only guy that comes to mind is Dwight Howard, which Randolph is not. Even in that case, it was realized VERY early in his career. Most of the guys winning the most improved player award are guys drafted late who break out or guys like Granger whose stats improved immensely when he became the go-to guy.

[Indy2thaWindy]

You probly haven't seen Randolph play much. Any team would want. There isn't a GM in the league who right now wouldn't take Randolph over Rush.

Miller4ever you told me about visiting homers, do those rules apply to Pacer homers too or no? Because I like Rush, but there is no way I would put his value in the same conversation as Randolph's. On here there is going to be people who want more in return for Rush, but after failing the drug test he is worth an early to mid 2nd rounder IMO. It has nothin to do with his play. Michael Beasly went for two 2nd rounders, is Rush really worth more?

[Miller4ever]

No, the point was that you treat all posters with respect. If you think somebody is overvaluing one of our own players, then that's their right. Hell, you were enamored with Lance.

Michael Beasley's problems extend far beyond marijuana. Not saying that weed is good, just saying that what Beasley was involved in was Chris Anderson 1-year suspension type stuff. Value-wise I will admit that Rush and Randolph are far away, but you were saying potential.

[Gremz]

I can't guarantee whether or not Randolph is worth that, but I am a little keen for a gamble. Call me crazy.

[8305]

I've seen a couple of interesting names thrown out as comparisons. Jermaine O'Neal and Jonathon Bender. Am I right that Randolph has had injuries each of his two seasons in the league? As with Bender some guys bodies just don't stand up to the rigors of the NBA game. Its not like anyone has asked Randolph to play major minutes and yet the injuries have occurred. What happens when he does get the chance to play more?

In the small stretches I've seen of Randolph its clear he has remarkable physical gifts. I stll question the effectiveness of a Hibbert/Randolph combination at the 4 and 5. I could see them getting beat to a lot of rebounds.

[FreeRon]

You're absolutely right. The statistics are homers and I won't stand for it! Seriously, though...I never said Rush was worth more than Randolph. In fact, I said he was worth less. I never said Rush was worth more than a second-round pick, either. I believe I said that a top-20 protected pick, a second, and Rush may be fair value. If we sent the picks and Rush to NY for Randolph and he started 15 games, averaging less than 10 PPG while we ended up among the worst teams in the league again would you still be saying it's fair value? I highly doubt it. Protecting the pick assures that we will be in the top 1/3 of the league before we have to ship our pick out. That means if Randolph develops we send a low first rounder and low second rounder with Rush for a guy who actually helped us. If he doesn't, we end up sending a high second rounder with Rush this year and eventually either a low first or a high to mid second. If his potential is never realized, we still gave up too much for him. I think the suggested deal is high risk moderate reward, whereas the amended deal would be moderate risk moderate reward.

[Miller4ever]

Top-20 is kinda ridiculous to ask for, but protection on the 1st makes this deal make WAY more sense.

[Grang33r]

I agree with FreeRon and IndytotheWindy to an extend.

YES, i would do the trade just because the potential of Anthony Randolph is sky high. But, as FreeRon said, like with Jonny Bender, nothing is guaranteed. Any little road bump can take Randolph's future go way down hill. A fall out with a coach, the wrong system, losing confidence, a injury, ect, and his career could be derailed. There is no sure things for guys who have yet to prove themselves yet in the NBA playing 30+ minutes a night. Randolph has A LOT of good stats per 40, but for the most part, that's what it all is. How much of that is inflated with garbage time minutes? I don't know. If he comes here, he will still have a learning curve when he is made a starter at power forward.

Gambles such as that usually work, but not always. For us, it worked real well with Jermaine O'Neal when we got him from Portland's bench. He was raw, but had loads of potential. Randolph has played more to this point then O'Neal, but he also entered at an older age.

That said, if Randolph deal doesn't happen, who else is available? It's now obvious from Granger's talk, to this trade rumor, that we are in desperate need of a power forward. We would offer a 1st round pick and considering they were ready to move Brandon Rush last deadline day to acquire a point guard, i'm sure for the right deal, they wouldn't hesitate including him, if he has any trade value remaining. Who is out there that we can trade for?

[FreeRon]

I would have to do research on next year's draft to decide what kind of protection I think is fair. If it's a weak draft, lottery or even top-10 is good. A strong one, though, and I don't think top-20 protection is too much. I just remember giving up a first for Al Harrington and how that worked out. Instead of Acie Law we got a 40-game rental of a shell of the former Al Harrington. I don't value picks too highly, but only because I hate the overrating done by most solely based on potential. Give me a proven role player rather than a young "potential star."

[Boneman2]

Give me a proven role player rather than a young "potential star."

I'd take the potential star every time. The problem here though is that AR is not a potential star, so in that regard, we are in agreeance.

From just barely seeing Paul George in action, he gives me goosebumps when I think of his vast potential. Nobody outside SanFran/Oakland, NY, & now apparantly Indiana has noticed AR's so-called 'Superstar potential. Like I said on the trade board, he is Channing Fye 2.0.

The Pacers need a regulator in the post, not a power forward that is built like Reggie Miller.

[croz24]

when you have the amount of youth the pacers currently have and are just a power forward away from establishing your core, trading future 1st round picks is a very wise move to make. those picks are an asset other teams value greatly, and the pacers are now in a position where that asset is more of a luxury considering the youth and potential currently on the roster. so, i fully believe that if bird can attain the power forward of the future via trade by dealing a future 1st, rush, and/or an expiring contract, it is a move he should make. but as we know, because of our financial position next year, a trade to obtain this power forward isn't really a necessity, thus requiring bird to think carefully before pulling the trigger giving up a luxury for a player that can be had by merely waiting.

[Grang33r]

when you have the amount of youth the pacers currently have and are just a power forward away from establishing your core, trading future 1st round picks is a very wise move to make. those picks are an asset other teams value greatly, and the pacers are now in a position where that asset is more of a luxury considering the youth and potential currently on the roster. so, i fully believe that if bird can attain the power forward of the future via trade by dealing a future 1st, rush, and/or an expiring contract, it is a move he should make. but as we know, because of our financial position next year, a trade to obtain this power forward isn't really a necessity, thus requiring bird to think carefully before pulling the trigger giving up a luxury for a player that can be had by merely waiting.

Right. And now only that, they are setting themselves up to have decent depth too, with Brandon Rush and Tyler Hansbrough coming off the bench. I'm not a big Rush fan, but, coming off the bench i could see him succeeding in that role. I don't think he'll ever be a starter on a good team though. Also, Pacers will have a truck load of money available next summer to sign free agents, and with a starting 5 already set up, i think several veterans would love to come to Indiana to play as bench players and help move the team up.

[GotItNow]

You like what you got? Knicks haven't had a winning record in how long, yet you like what you got?
Knicks remind me of the Raptors last year. Almost good enough to make the playoffs. But you don't want to make any moves.

We changed over just about our entire roster this off season. We only kept five guys, and yes...we like what we picked up.

We want to see these guys play some games together to see what we have. Then the moves come. There's no reason to make any now unless it's a no brainer.

[pacers33]

Anthony Randolph is overrated.

Although his body is just a work of art, 6'11 with that speed and agility, it's quite a piece of work. He has attitude issues, he's a little demanding and that's what I'd try to avoid this season, no need for drama when us Pacers fans are trying to stay hopeful for the playoffs, and having him whining like a stray dog. Although I wouldn't mind having him here, I'm not sure if I like this trade - especially giving away a pick.