Jamal Crawford

[Cassius]

Not to derail the thread, but what are your thoughts on Ben Gordon as the solution at SG for you guys? If Tyreke is going to keep playing the point, it only makes sense to get a combo-guard (like Crawford), but better. I don't get to see a lot of Sacto ball on the east coast, but I liked what I saw and really like Cousins' game.

I'm not sure what it would take, maybe Dalembert, Greene, a 2nd and a pick swap or something... but I think a lineup of Reke, BG, Casspi, Landry, Cousins is pretty dope.

I wouldn't want to make that deal until December/January though, until Cousins learns the ropes and doesn't get frustrated with the rookie foul treatment.

Ben Gordon would be more than welcome on the team if I'm in charge. He's a great 3pt and FT shooter with a big body, and he's clutch. Although I'd ideally like Mo Williams or a Mo Williams-clone next to Tyreke, Ben Gordon will more than do.

Dalembert, Greene, a 2nd AND a pick swap is way too steep though considering the horrendous year Ben Gordon had last year. He didn't earn a starting position, his three point percentage dropped 9% from the previous year, FG% dropped, and he just looked plain bad out there...How does a 20 ppg scorer go to a weaker team and have his production fall off the radar? Detroit isn't in a position to ask for a lot for him.

Ben was injured most of the season, even while he played. But yeah, that price is more indicative of his contract season numbers. I wasn't sure what kind of filler you'd even want from Detroit, so I didn't bother include any. OG, I think a first is a little bit light, you'd have to send back at least one body.

EDIT: From an outsider's perspective, does this mean that most of you are angry about the Kevin Martin trade? From here it looks like BG, Crawford, Mo Williams and others are all really similar to what K-Mart brought... albeit less fragile.

[SacKingZZZ]

I think one thing that Gordon has that Martin didn't is the ability to come through in the clutch. While I think that the ability itself is a tad big overrated, it did come into question at times.

[SacKingsPejaFan]

Not to derail the thread, but what are your thoughts on Ben Gordon as the solution at SG for you guys? If Tyreke is going to keep playing the point, it only makes sense to get a combo-guard (like Crawford), but better. I don't get to see a lot of Sacto ball on the east coast, but I liked what I saw and really like Cousins' game.

I'm not sure what it would take, maybe Dalembert, Greene, a 2nd and a pick swap or something... but I think a lineup of Reke, BG, Casspi, Landry, Cousins is pretty dope.

I wouldn't want to make that deal until December/January though, until Cousins learns the ropes and doesn't get frustrated with the rookie foul treatment.

Ben Gordon would be more than welcome on the team if I'm in charge. He's a great 3pt and FT shooter with a big body, and he's clutch. Although I'd ideally like Mo Williams or a Mo Williams-clone next to Tyreke, Ben Gordon will more than do.

Dalembert, Greene, a 2nd AND a pick swap is way too steep though considering the horrendous year Ben Gordon had last year. He didn't earn a starting position, his three point percentage dropped 9% from the previous year, FG% dropped, and he just looked plain bad out there...How does a 20 ppg scorer go to a weaker team and have his production fall off the radar? Detroit isn't in a position to ask for a lot for him.

Ben was injured most of the season, even while he played. But yeah, that price is more indicative of his contract season numbers. I wasn't sure what kind of filler you'd even want from Detroit, so I didn't bother include any. OG, I think a first is a little bit light, you'd have to send back at least one body.

EDIT: From an outsider's perspective, does this mean that most of you are angry about the Kevin Martin trade? From here it looks like BG, Crawford, Mo Williams and others are all really similar to what K-Mart brought... albeit less fragile.

I'm happy to have Landry. He's our only proven post scorer and I'm confident that he'll average at least 20 ppg next year after gaining more chemistry with the team and getting used to playing starter minutes. As far as efficiency goes, he's similar to a PF version of K-Mart.

But would I have liked to keep K-Mart? Absolutely. I don't think management gave the K-Mart/Evans duo a fair look. Martin was injured a lot of last year and you can't expect two guys used to having the ball in their hands a lot to gel immediately. With more time, I think it could have worked out, especially since Martin is so good at the catch-and-shoot game. I will say, though, that Mo Williams, my preferred backcourt mate for Evans, is a great ball-handler and passer, two things Martin does not bring to the table.

[Wolfay]

I think one thing that Gordon has that Martin didn't is the ability to come through in the clutch. While I think that the ability itself is a tad big overrated, it did come into question at times.

So you think winning is overrated? I know most us (understandably) blocked the memory out, but not being clutch cost us the championship against the Lakers.

I'm happy to have Landry. He's our only proven post scorer and I'm confident that he'll average at least 20 ppg next year after gaining more chemistry with the team and getting used to playing starter minutes. As far as efficiency goes, he's similar to a PF version of K-Mart.

But would I have liked to keep K-Mart? Absolutely. I don't think management gave the K-Mart/Evans duo a fair look. Martin was injured a lot of last year and you can't expect two guys used to having the ball in their hands a lot to gel immediately. With more time, I think it could have worked out, especially since Martin is so good at the catch-and-shoot game. I will say, though, that Mo Williams, my preferred backcourt mate for Evans, is a great ball-handler and passer, two things Martin does not bring to the table.

Martin refused to make it work. He was clearly no longer our number one and he got all pissy. I don't see how their games were all that compatible anyway. Martin was ball-dominant, a horrid defender, and a choker. His strength was driving to the basket (not shooting), which also happens to be Tyreke's strength and Tyreke is much better at it.

[SacKingZZZ]

So you think winning is overrated? I know most us (understandably) blocked the memory out, but not being clutch cost us the championship against the Lakers.

Uh, I'm pretty sure there were more issues related to that particular situation than simply "not being clutch". In fact, you could probably use that as a prime example of how unimportant being "clutch" can be when compared to just simply being consistent or good in the first place. Should have had that series wrapped up before any "clutch" moments were needed. Obviously there were other factors at play but we won't go into those. If you actually calculated how many wins an average NBA team gets from being "clutch" the data would be pretty one sided in terms of it's numerical relation to their overall wins during a given season.

I don't think that your best player necessarily has to be your most clutch either. Look at Derek Fisher, Robert Horry, Sam Cassell, etc. I'll still take the superior talent, you can take the "clutch" guy.

[wiltchamberlain]

Not to derail the thread, but what are your thoughts on Ben Gordon as the solution at SG for you guys? If Tyreke is going to keep playing the point, it only makes sense to get a combo-guard (like Crawford), but better. I don't get to see a lot of Sacto ball on the east coast, but I liked what I saw and really like Cousins' game.

I'm not sure what it would take, maybe Dalembert, Greene, a 2nd and a pick swap or something... but I think a lineup of Reke, BG, Casspi, Landry, Cousins is pretty dope.

I wouldn't want to make that deal until December/January though, until Cousins learns the ropes and doesn't get frustrated with the rookie foul treatment.

Ben Gordon would be more than welcome on the team if I'm in charge. He's a great 3pt and FT shooter with a big body, and he's clutch. Although I'd ideally like Mo Williams or a Mo Williams-clone next to Tyreke, Ben Gordon will more than do.

Dalembert, Greene, a 2nd AND a pick swap is way too steep though considering the horrendous year Ben Gordon had last year. He didn't earn a starting position, his three point percentage dropped 9% from the previous year, FG% dropped, and he just looked plain bad out there...How does a 20 ppg scorer go to a weaker team and have his production fall off the radar? Detroit isn't in a position to ask for a lot for him.

Ben was injured most of the season, even while he played. But yeah, that price is more indicative of his contract season numbers. I wasn't sure what kind of filler you'd even want from Detroit, so I didn't bother include any. OG, I think a first is a little bit light, you'd have to send back at least one body.

EDIT: From an outsider's perspective, does this mean that most of you are angry about the Kevin Martin trade? From here it looks like BG, Crawford, Mo Williams and others are all really similar to what K-Mart brought... albeit less fragile.

I don't think people are angry about trading Martin we're all pretty happy to have Landry. But the fact is losing Kevin left a hole in the Kings roster that has yet to be filled, and which some believe could potentially be filled by a guy like Gordon, or Crawford.

[Cassius]

Makes sense, much easier to find shooters than post scorers, especially when you dump a big contract in the process.

[Wolfay]

So you think winning is overrated? I know most us (understandably) blocked the memory out, but not being clutch cost us the championship against the Lakers.

Uh, I'm pretty sure there were more issues related to that particular situation than simply "not being clutch". In fact, you could probably use that as a prime example of how unimportant being "clutch" can be when compared to just simply being consistent or good in the first place. Should have had that series wrapped up before any "clutch" moments were needed. Obviously there were other factors at play but we won't go into those. If you actually calculated how many wins an average NBA team gets from being "clutch" the data would be pretty one sided in terms of it's numerical relation to their overall wins during a given season.

I don't think that your best player necessarily has to be your most clutch either. Look at Derek Fisher, Robert Horry, Sam Cassell, etc. I'll still take the superior talent, you can take the "clutch" guy.

That was just one example. I don't know how many games Martin blew simply just because he was a moron at the end of games. It's a sign of mental weakness. Guys like Kobe Bryant earn their millions from being clutch. I think you're really underestimating how valuable being able to hit big shots down the stretch is (or you're just mad because your boy Kevin Martin sucks at it).

[SacKingZZZ]

That was just one example. I don't know how many games Martin blew simply just because he was a moron at the end of games. It's a sign of mental weakness. Guys like Kobe Bryant earn their millions from being clutch. I think you're really underestimating how valuable being able to hit big shots down the stretch is (or you're just mad because your boy Kevin Martin sucks at it).

They also take enough shots to make enough that they're labeled "clutch". Make a million for every sinker, lose a 100 grand for every miss, you might just find yourself ahead. Glory >>> the choke. I think the main concern with Martin was that he seemed reluctant to take that last shot. I don't know how much was actually his doing though.

Oh, and I don't really know when Martin became "my boy", hahaha. Remember, I'm the Diogu guy.