Bargnani vs. Gallinari

[NYK 455]

Give me 'Nani he's a better post player and defender.

No.

[TheGreatWall]

I'd rather have Gallinari, although I'd rather have neither after the Knicks decide to pay him 12 mil a year after a 16/6 season.

[Kabookalu]

Send him to a big man camp and although his rebounding stayed the same, his defense noticeably got better.

Wait, after looking at his numbers the first 17 games of the 08 season, although you'll see lots of low rebounding games, I forgot to take into consideration his minutes per game. Some of those games where he logged quite a few minutes he's managed to grab a lot of boards. Still you expect more from a big man, but with his physical traits I don't think he had much hope of being nothing more than an average rebounder. He has a pretty low center of balance and unimpressive upper body strength, two major athletic abilities that help with rebounding. This is why Dwight Howard is such a monster rebounder.

[NBA Fan 1234]

Send him to a big man camp and although his rebounding stayed the same, his defense noticeably got better.

Wait, after looking at his numbers the first 17 games of the 08 season, although you'll see lots of low rebounding games, I forgot to take into consideration his minutes per game. Some of those games where he logged quite a few minutes he's managed to grab a lot of boards. Still you expect more from a big man, but with his physical traits I don't think he had much hope of being nothing more than an average rebounder. He has a pretty low center of balance and unimpressive upper body strength, two major athletic abilities that help with rebounding. This is why Dwight Howard is such a monster rebounder.

Take someone like Love though. He is below average athletically but still manages to rack up 10+ rebounds per game (in limited minutes also). If Bargs can't improve his athleticism, he should look to improve his lower body strength. He doesn't need to be overwhelmingly strong in his upper body in order to be a good rebounder. Strong base = boxing out = more rebounds. I like Bargs and think he's underrated, not as much in comparison to Gallo but I digress...Bargs just has to get stronger in his lower body to become a better rebounder.

@NYK 455, Bargs is an underrated defender (I have stats to back that statement up). I do agree that he's not a better defender than Gallinari. The real question is is Lopez, really, a better defender than Bargnani lol.

[SOUP]

At least Bargs scores at a good percentage with his camping at the 3 pt line. Give me Andrea.

[Kabookalu]

Take someone like Love though. He is below average athletically but still manages to rack up 10+ rebounds per game (in limited minutes also). If Bargs can't improve his athleticism, he should look to improve his lower body strength. He doesn't need to be overwhelmingly strong in his upper body in order to be a good rebounder. Strong base = boxing out = more rebounds. I like Bargs and think he's underrated, not as much in comparison to Gallo but I digress...Bargs just has to get stronger in his lower body to become a better rebounder.

The thing is Bargs has very good lower body strength, and like defense, he also doesn't feel like he needs to box out. Under Sam Mitchell he actually was boxing out every possession, but now the guy just stands there and it's infuriating. And Love is really an anomaly, the guy just has a knack for rebounding. Also note Bargnani isn't the first of his kind; Yao Ming is 7'5 and barely hovers around 10rpg. Shawn Bradley never even cracked 10rpg once. Rik Smits last time I checked was a career 6rpg player. At his best I can't see Bargnani getting past 8rpg.

[NBA Fan 1234]

Take someone like Love though. He is below average athletically but still manages to rack up 10+ rebounds per game (in limited minutes also). If Bargs can't improve his athleticism, he should look to improve his lower body strength. He doesn't need to be overwhelmingly strong in his upper body in order to be a good rebounder. Strong base = boxing out = more rebounds. I like Bargs and think he's underrated, not as much in comparison to Gallo but I digress...Bargs just has to get stronger in his lower body to become a better rebounder.

The thing is Bargs has very good lower body strength, and like defense, he also doesn't feel like he needs to box out. Under Sam Mitchell he actually was boxing out every possession, but now the guy just stands there and it's infuriating. And Love is really an anomaly, the guy just has a knack for rebounding. Also note Bargnani isn't the first of his kind; Yao Ming is 7'5 and barely hovers around 10rpg. Shawn Bradley never even cracked 10rpg once. Rik Smits last time I checked was a career 6rpg player. At his best I can't see Bargnani getting past 8rpg.

Gotcha. That's his problem then...boxing out. We had a huge discussion about this in one of the threads on our board about Mozgov. Someone has to get Bargs to box out because if he really does have lower body strength, he should be getting more boards then he does. COME ON TRIANO!

Love boxes out though lol...but yeah, he has a knack for getting the ball. Yao I understand because even though he's incredibly tall, people can jump over him and he too doesn't box out. Bradley I don't really remember playing that much, but I do remember he was a poor rebounder and Smits the same. Those three are also abnormally tall though...Bargs isn't. Maybe part of the reason why Bargs' numbers were low was because Bosh was not playing defense (either) and snatching the boards lol. Either way, I think his rebounding numbers will go up...he must know that without Bosh, even with Amir/Davis getting minutes, his numbers will need to go up to stay competitive.

Nets fans...all I can say is haha.

[blkout]

He usually has good timing on blocks and his shotblocking in the clutch is second only to Brendan Haywood.

Shotblocking in the clutch? that's what, 3 or 4 minutes of a game?

[Kabookalu]

Gotcha. That's his problem then...boxing out. We had a huge discussion about this in one of the threads on our board about Mozgov. Someone has to get Bargs to box out because if he really does have lower body strength, he should be getting more boards then he does. COME ON TRIANO!

Love boxes out though lol...but yeah, he has a knack for getting the ball. Yao I understand because even though he's incredibly tall, people can jump over him and he too doesn't box out. Bradley I don't really remember playing that much, but I do remember he was a poor rebounder and Smits the same. Those three are also abnormally tall though...Bargs isn't. Maybe part of the reason why Bargs' numbers were low was because Bosh was not playing defense (either) and snatching the boards lol. Either way, I think his rebounding numbers will go up...he must know that without Bosh, even with Amir/Davis getting minutes, his numbers will need to go up to stay competitive.

Nets fans...all I can say is haha.

Though all three of those guys share something in common...they have a low center of balance and not so great upper body strength. That's particularly why I mentioned them. You can make up for it with boxing out like you said, I hope Bargnani realizes this...or I hope BC invests Bargnani to go to Bill Laimbeer's blocking out school of hard knocks.

He usually has good timing on blocks and his shotblocking in the clutch is second only to Brendan Haywood.

Shotblocking in the clutch? that's what, 3 or 4 minutes of a game?

Yep, I already acknowledged it's a small sample size. You missed it but that's okay.

[Wise1]

I'd take the Knickerbocker. A 7 footer that can't rebound would frustrate the hell out of me.

[prs]

At least Bargs scores at a good percentage with his camping at the 3 pt line. Give me Andrea.

so he scores at a good percentage at the 3pt line but Gallo who scores at a better percentage doesn't?

do you ever post anything meaningful?

[Kabookalu]

At least Bargs scores at a good percentage with his camping at the 3 pt line. Give me Andrea.

so he scores at a good percentage at the 3pt line but Gallo who scores at a better percentage doesn't?

do you ever post anything meaningful?

He's talking about FG% in general, not 3PT%.

[blkout]

Yep, I already acknowledged it's a small sample size. You missed it but that's okay.

Yeah I stopped reading after that part.

[prs]

At least Bargs scores at a good percentage with his camping at the 3 pt line. Give me Andrea.

so he scores at a good percentage at the 3pt line but Gallo who scores at a better percentage doesn't?

do you ever post anything meaningful?

He's talking about FG% in general, not 3PT%.

and Gallo is still more efficient, so still a worthless post with blind hating.

[Myrage]

While I might have a bit of bias associated with me being a knicks fan, but here's my views.

Bargs is not a prototypical center in the least, and would definitely make a decent power forward / small forward. Much like Gallo, he can be slotted into many positions, but is not a master at any in particular.

Because they are in free-wheeling systems Bargs can play anywhere from 3-5 and Gallo can play anywhere between 2-4. I think the raptors should not play Bargs at the 5, because he has a tough time guarding centers and holding his position. I also think the Knicks should not play Gallo at the 2 so much because he doesn't have the lateral quickness needed at the position.

That being said, I think both are decent defenders (though Gallo seems to be a lot more tenacious/edgy). Bargs would look a lot better if he didn't play out of position. I think both have room to improve and turn up their game.

In the end I'm going to side with Gallo for the following reasons.

1: Hes cheap for the next two years.
2: He's younger.
3: He is almost perfect for D'antoni once he drives to the basket more


Both are good players with similar versatility, but the raptors need to stop using Bargs as a C.

[Kabookalu]

Yeah I stopped reading after that part.

Not surprised, you usually don't contribute much out of single liners accompanied by emoticons.

[paul]

This is going to be epic.

[Kabookalu]

Hope I'm not disappointed then.

[blkout]

Yeah I stopped reading after that part.

Not surprised, you usually don't contribute much out of single liners accompanied by emoticons.

How would me reading any more of your homeristic gibberish help me contribute much outside of single liners accompanied by emoticons? You used a ridiculous stat that I'm stunned is even kept as proof of Bargnani's supposed defensive prowess. Clutch shot blocking on a team that missed the play-offs! If you insist, I will finish reading your post...

What it suggests to me is that Bargnani only makes use of his defensive instincts only when it's most important.

this is possibly the funniest thing I've read from a Craptor fan since "Bosh is stealing Bargnani's rebounds!". You know what it suggests to me? Considering the best shot blocker in the entire league averaged less than 3 per game, to use "clutch time" statistics in any way, shape or form to quantify shot blocking is ludicrous. Thus such a tiny (minuscule even in the context of shot blocking) sample size is irrelevant and proves nothing, not even that he "makes use of his defensive instincts when it's most important".

Out of curiosity, how many shots did he block in crunch time? Considering he only blocked just over 100 for the entire season that has to be a bloody small amount.

another point I'd like to bring up is during the small stint of the 08 season when Mitchell was coaching. Bargnani went to a big man camp and was noticeably a much better defender

Well that wore off quickly didn't it.

My point I'm trying to make is that whenever it was truly demanded of him (after going to big man camp), like from Sam Mitchell, Bargnani was able to play good defense.

He's never been a good defender. His shot blocking has been laughable every year of his career, his defensive rating has gotten worse every year of his career and his defensive rebounding is about 1/3 worse than every other competent big man. To blame the freaking coach for his lack of D is again, ludicrous. How is it the coaches fault that he apparently needs to attend big man camps every year to know how to play D? Why isn't that Bargnani's responsibility? Does this big man camp require a referral from the coach of a team for him to attend or something, like a doctor setting an appointment?

So I don't think he really lacks defensive instincts at all, but he just doesn't have the willingness to play defense.

Right, that's what it is.

. Under Sam Mitchell he actually was boxing out every possession

Well it wasn't leading to much because he had the 2 worst rebounding seasons of his career under Sam Mitchell. His rebounding and shot blocking has actually increased under Triano, the awful coach who won't let him go to big man camp.

Also note Bargnani isn't the first of his kind; Yao Ming is 7'5 and barely hovers around 10rpg. Shawn Bradley never even cracked 10rpg once. Rik Smits last time I checked was a career 6rpg player. At his best I can't see Bargnani getting past 8rpg.

Rik Smits (7'4): 13.3 REB%
Yao Ming (7'5): 16.5 REB%
Shawn Bradley (7'6): 15.0 REB%
Andrea Bargnani (7'0): 9.8 REB%

Not really a fair comparison to make, he still isn't in their league. This one's probably more fair...

Fat Lever (6'3): 10.1 REB%
Bonzi Wells (6'5): 10.5 REB%
Jason Kidd (6'4): 10.2 REB%
Andrea Bargnani (7'0): 9.8 REB%

Or maybe...

Andrea Bargnani (7'0): 9.8 REB%
Charles Dudley (6'2): 8.6 REB%
Rajon Rondo (6'1): 8.6 REB%
Chris Paul (6'0): 7.5 REB%

These excuses you're pulling aren't going to fly. Low center of balance, coach not sending him to bigman camp, only defends when it's important blah blah. Quantifiable proof or nothing.

[Kabookalu]

Hey you posted something worthwhile, a rare gem out of your 10 000 posts, congratulations.

Why isn't that Bargnani's responsibility?

I've already stated that but you apparently haven't been paying attention, as you said yourself. I did say it is his responsibility and he's not owning up to them and I've already voiced my displeasure at how much he's been underachieving with his abilities. And I already know your stance on Bargnani; you try and demean him in every comparison so of course you're going to turn everything I say as if I'm making excuses for him, despite already acknowledging that every fault that is going against him is actually his fault.