Calderon for Bibby + Evans? You do it?

[azuresou1]

Horford will definitely get more than $10 mil if Brendan Haywood JUST got $9 mill. I'd estimate he gets $14-15 mill.

Only if NY or NJ, teams with cap space, see him as a true building block and want him that bad. Otherwise I think it's more like $12M....but we shall see, teams probably know we wouldn't match $15M (my guess). Who all has cap space next year anyway?

Quite a few teams - can't be bothered to count, but I'd think there are a good 5-6 teams that could sign him.

Calderon sounds like a young Bibby? So this trade swap an old Bibby for a young Bibby. Sounds good to me.

I don't know about his contract but it doesn't sound bad when he signs it. But Horford's up for extension so I don't know if it pushes the Hawks to luxury land and that's a no no (to the owners).

Not knowing about contracts is fatal.

[D21]

This trade won't happen, not now.
Like Evildallas said, it pushes ATL in Luxury tax for next year, if they want to be sure to keep Horford, and they want (unless he's traded for a star, but it will also cost a lot).

We simply need to realize that they won't spend any tax dollar, unless maybe they can't get someone like Anthony, Paul,... so there is no point to look at trade that bring more salaries than send.

This is frustrating, but that's how owners made it.
We could be less frustrated if they clearly said they won't pay tax, but have built the team in order to avoid situation like this summer leading us to pay a stupid contract, a contract ending every hope to build a team like SAS or DET in the past, something Sund told.

Now, until Joe is out of here, and it will be hard to find someone wanting to pay him that money, we are simply one of the worst built team, and we can't improve.

[iserp]

I am spanish and was disappointed when Bosh left Toronto, since Calderon (one of my favourite players) wouldn't be able to contend for the playoffs. And trying to look for good places for Jose, i thought that he would be a good fit in Atlanta.

Horford and Josh Smith would help Calderon greatly on defense (last year he had Bosh and Bargnani); while Calderon would find them easy shots on offense. You get an alternative to Joe Johnson to initiate the offense; and he is very efficient, so playing in the weakside while JJ has the ball makes him a 3pt threat. Besides Bibby is on the bad side of 30s, and declining; so it would be a clear upgrade for you guys.

The bad side of the deal is the financial one, of course. You're on the verge of the luxury tax, and while your FO seems commited to your core, it's unclear wether they will make any additions. Besides, maybe getting another big man is more of a concern than the PG spot. It also has the problem that Jose suffered several minor injuries last year, and maybe he isn't made to play the full 82 games.

[andog_22]

To Toronto:
Dalembert
Teague

To Atlanta:
Calderon
Evans

To Sacramento: Crawford

[azuresou1]

That's wretched for Atlanta, Raptors fans really should just give it up.

[Macho Man]

simple would you do that?

EAT ****

[gurpilo]

I just cannot believe how people can have any doubts on this trade.

8M$ for 9M$ in salaries and we get a legit starter in Calderon, a top 15 PG when healthy that is still young and that would also be a great fit on Atlanta.

[HomieOmey]

Calderon is on a bad contract and can't play defense. I think that if Toronto could dump him for expirings and Bibby's much smaller deal they would.

We would, but only because we're a bad lottery team who needs cap flexibility more than we need two capable starting PGs. Calderon is still arguably our best PG, and worth his money if fully healthy and covered by a decent defense. He's a perfect compliment to Joe Johnson on offense, and I imagine his defense would be much less of a problem with three athletic 'bigs' (Al, Josh, and Marvin) playing with him.

[HomieOmey]

Horford will definitely get more than $10 mil if Brendan Haywood JUST got $9 mill. I'd estimate he gets $14-15 mill.

Only if NY or NJ, teams with cap space, see him as a true building block and want him that bad. Otherwise I think it's more like $12M....but we shall see, teams probably know we wouldn't match $15M (my guess). Who all has cap space next year anyway?

Quite a few teams - can't be bothered to count, but I'd think there are a good 5-6 teams that could sign him.

At the very least, the Pacers sound like the kind of team who would definitely offer Horford $13-15 mill per year. He's pretty much everything that they are missing and fits in well with their young core.

[azuresou1]

I just cannot believe how people can have any doubts on this trade.

8M$ for 9M$ in salaries and we get a legit starter in Calderon, a top 15 PG when healthy that is still young and that would also be a great fit on Atlanta.

Do you know anything about NBA economics, or do you just have the attention span of a fish?

[gurpilo]

I just cannot believe how people can have any doubts on this trade.

8M$ for 9M$ in salaries and we get a legit starter in Calderon, a top 15 PG when healthy that is still young and that would also be a great fit on Atlanta.

Do you know anything about NBA economics, or do you just have the attention span of a fish?

No need to offend boy, if I don´t know and you are so clever please explain it to me... What´s wrong with my statement?

Sometimes is better to think twice before yelling...

[azuresou1]

Bibby + Evans:
$8 million this year
$6.2 million next year
$0 million year after

Calderon:
$9 million this year
$9.8 million next year
$10.6 million year after

Total difference: $15.2 million

[gurpilo]

And??? I´m only worried on our ability of resigning Horford and this deal do not affect at all, you could do it this summer or leave it for next and you unload a player getting 6M$ that is not going to contribute according to his salary.

What FA do you think you could sign with 4M$ next year? Would you sign a starter at PG???? You just add 4M$ next year, you don´t pay the lux tax this year and have a starter at a position of need, win win for ATL, at the end of the contract probably you could resign him at a much lower price.

[gurpilo]

And of course I´m not worried about the total amount of $ as this team has chosen living above the cap by signing Joe, I´m only worried by getting the best players with the available $ we have.

Or you still think we should save some cap space to sign a FA, do you really think any interesting FA would sign with us, do you really believe on Joe´s attraction????

[azuresou1]

A difference of $3.8 million to a group like the ASG is huge. As for what $3.8 million will get you:

$3.8 million will buy you an Anthony Morrow or a Jordan Farmar.
$3.8 million will buy you a Matt Barnes for two years.
$3.8 million will get you so many veteran journeymen bigs that it'd blow your mind.

Calderon isn't even significantly better than Bibby - his defense is just as bad, and he can't push the tempo on top of it, negating most of his offensive edge.

[gurpilo]

A difference of $3.8 million to a group like the ASG is huge. As for what $3.8 million will get you:

$3.8 million will buy you an Anthony Morrow or a Jordan Farmar.
$3.8 million will buy you a Matt Barnes for two years.
$3.8 million will get you so many veteran journeymen bigs that it'd blow your mind.

Calderon isn't even significantly better than Bibby - his defense is just as bad, and he can't push the tempo on top of it, negating most of his offensive edge.

I´ll say it again, none of those players would consider signing with Atl as has happened the last 4 years and none of those players would upgrade our game as do not fill a need, what we need is a starting PG and a capable C and you can´t buy any of those with 4 M$.

Calderon is a legit starter and will have an inmediate impact on the game, we can run with him and use Marvin, Josh and Al athleticism, in fact we are a better fit for him than Toronto.

[azuresou1]

See, you saying Calderon can run is how I know you've never actually watched him play. Just because he is 4 years younger than Bibby does not mean he can or does run.

How are you planning to tell me that Morrow or Farmar wouldn't sign with us when they both signed with the historically bad Nets? Matt Barnes is playing for the Lakers, which means he's taking a discount, but $3.8 would be DOUBLE his current salary. Kurt Thomas signed for just-above league minimum. Shaq signed at the minimum with the Celtics but could have been had for $3.8 million.

Filling a need? Barnes most definitely fills a need, seeing as Mo Evans is behind Marvin at SF, and he's clearly a SG. Kurt Thomas or Shaq or a Pryzbilla next year aren't filling a need?

Trading for Calderon basically kills any sort of financial freedom the Hawks have especially given that the Hawks have proved they won't go into the luxury tax, and a team will just offer Horford a front loaded deal.

[gurpilo]

See, you saying Calderon can run is how I know you've never actually watched him play. Just because he is 4 years younger than Bibby does not mean he can or does run.

How are you planning to tell me that Morrow or Farmar wouldn't sign with us when they both signed with the historically bad Nets? Matt Barnes is playing for the Lakers, which means he's taking a discount, but $3.8 would be DOUBLE his current salary. Kurt Thomas signed for just-above league minimum. Shaq signed at the minimum with the Celtics but could have been had for $3.8 million.

Filling a need? Barnes most definitely fills a need, seeing as Mo Evans is behind Marvin at SF, and he's clearly a SG. Kurt Thomas or Shaq or a Pryzbilla next year aren't filling a need?

Trading for Calderon basically kills any sort of financial freedom the Hawks have especially given that the Hawks have proved they won't go into the luxury tax, and a team will just offer Horford a front loaded deal.

I would suggest that you read again my statement, I´ve said that WE can run with Calderon as PG, not that Calderon can run and finish, he is a very good player on transition and a passing PG and we could use the athleticism we have on the wings to finish those transitions. He has also a good jumper. Agreed that he is not an athletic or extremely quick PG.

For various reasons I've seen Calderon playing more than anyone on this forum and I know better than anyone here his game, in fact I suggested to sign him on this forum before he decided to come to the NBA.

And about the FA, please think on our FA signings the past 4 years and you will see that the best one is Mo Evans and then you find Joe Smith, Jason Collins, Lorenzen Wright, Flip Murray, Randolph Morris... and we have contacted other FA but the fact is that none of them want to play for us. Morrow is duplicated with Jamal and Jordan Crawford, Farmar is not better than Bibby and Barnes would never have signed with us. None of them solve the problem, to backup the SF we could always play JJ and start Crawford at SG. Our real needs are at PG and C and we have no options to cover them, just pray Teague becomes a legit starter.

[gurpilo]

If we review Calderon stats and take out last year, his last 2 years on Toronto were 13 ppg, 9 apg 0,50% FG and 0,40% 3p%, is that not and upgrade over what we have? Obviously I do not follow all Toronto's games but I'm sure that a huge amount of his assists came on transition. Even last year 10 ppg and 6 apg on 26 mpg, the issue with Calderon is will he stay healthy?

Spain won his titles with him running the point, running and playing on transition, Navarro Gasol and Garbajosa finished on the rim receiving the ball from Calderon. This year on the World Championship he was injured and Spain was 6th, do you think is by chance? Ricky Rubio is a penetrating PG with a bad jumper and Spain cannot run with him as they used to do with Calderon.