Pacer's All-Time Best

[granger05]

ESPN has a feature right now where you can vote on the best players to play each position for every NBA team. Here's the LINK for the Pacers. It's fun to just look at the guys that you can select from.

PG: Don Buse, Mark Jackson, Vern Fleming, Billy Keller, Freddie Lewis, Jamal Tinsley (!!! is it really that bad a position for us all-time?)
SG: I won't bore you with this
SF: Granger, Kellogg, Rifleman, Rose
PF: Schrempf, JO, McGinnis, Dale Davis
C: Mel Daniels, Antonio Davis, Bob Netolicky(?), Rik Smits, Herb Williams

A lot of these guys are before my time. My selections were Jackson, Miller, Granger, McGinnis, and Daniels. The overall vote leaders are Jackson, Miller (not close), Person (edging Granger), JO, and Smits which means that other voters were not as impressed with ABA MVPs as I was.

Also, there's an insider article on the worst all-time players for each team, but they have some criteria for this one.

It's pretty obvious that the worst NBA player is the one who never plays, but such a list would be no fun to read or write. We're targeting guys you actually might remember but wish you couldn't (Nikoloz Tskitishvili, anyone?). So, in order to qualify for this list, a player needed to have played at least 10 minutes per contest over the course of at least 100 career games with the franchise. Furthermore, we've added the "Bruce Bowen Corollary" to exempt players who started for championship teams.

Here's ours:

Indiana Pacers

The Pacers acquired former Hoosier and hometown hero Randy Wittman in a trade masked as a curtain call lasting 159 games -- which was 158 games too long.

PLAYER YEARS PER PTS TRB AST G MPG PF FG%
1 Randy Wittman 1989-92 7.8 2.5 0.8 1.0 159 10.8 0.4 0.476
2 Mike Sanders 1990-92 8.8 5.8 2.5 1.2 172 17.3 2.5 0.444
3 Brandon Rush 2009-10 9.4 8.8 3.7 1.1 157 27.4 1.8 0.423
4 Eddie Gill 2005-06 9.5 2.8 1.1 0.8 114 10.0 1.0 0.317
5 George McCloud 1990-93 9.5 5.5 2.0 2.0 247 15.7 1.9 0.390

[Indy2thaWindy]

PG Lance Stephenson or Darren Collison (I can't decide )
SG Reggie Miller
SF George McGinnis
PF Mel Daniels
C Jermaine O'Neal

[glasket]

PG Lance Stephenson or Darren Collison (I can't decide )
SG Reggie Miller
SF George McGinnis
PF Mel Daniels
C Jermaine O'Neal

A player must actually play some games for the team to be considered.
Also hard to go past Mark Jackson

[Miller4ever]

Okay, I want to rep Don Buse, who gets no love. He led the ABA and the NBA in assists and steals in back-to-back seasons. He, unlike many Pacers on this list also has a championship ring with Mel Daniels. Also, he was a Defensive 1st-team selection twice for the ABA and 4 times for the NBA. As one of the top 10 defensive PG's of all time, Don Buse is too often forgotten, and I think Pacer fans should know about how great a player Buse is.

It should be:

Done Buse (Mark Jackson is 2nd. Buse is an equal shooter, equally prolific passer, much better defender with much more hardware)
Reggie Miller
Danny Granger (It's hard to pass up Kellogg, who's such an amazing person, but as a player doesn't stack up. Chuck Person falls behind Granger here.)
George McGinnis (Mel Daniels did not play PF that much. McGinnis was an ABA MVP and champion. Add that to the fact that he could score 25, rebound 15, and dish out 6 assists a game and you have a monster)
Mel Daniels (The Bill Russell of the ABA. Smits is great, but he's not very close)

[Wizop]

Freddie (Fritz) Lewis belongs in the conversation too. he was really a key player on our championship teams and deserves much more credit that he gets. put Lewis, Jackson, and Boo Boo in any order and I couldn't argue.

Kellogg doesn't stack up as a player? look at the all time Pacer stats and see who had 20/20 games (if you can find that. I tried this morning and couldn't find the list although I remember seeing it in an old media guide.) he led the team in both scoring and rebounding for a couple of years and then his knees gave out. I'm not lobbying to put him in the top five because his career was too short but had his knees held up he would have been there.

[mizzoupacers]

Buse
Reggie
Brown
JO
Daniels

Reggie Miller is the only clear-cut choice.

At pg, I can't remember seeing Buse play, but I'm sold by the 4 NBA all-defense teams. Jackson was good, but not so good that I'm eager to name him the Pacers' best-ever pg.

Small forward is probably the toughest choice--you could make a good case for about five or six different guys. I'll go with Roger Brown's retired jersey.

At power forward, O'Neal is for me a pretty easy choice. He had his faults, but he's the most talented four the Pacers have ever had (I saw McGinniss play, and JO was better). Still, it's tempting to go with Dale Davis; every team could use a bad-ass pf like him.

At center, Smits had incredible touch for someone that freaking tall, which made him close to unstoppable as a scorer. But his overall game was a bit soft. I was just a kid when Mel Daniels played and barely remember him, but with those ungodly rebounding stats, he had to have been better than Smits.

[Grangerous]

jackson
reggie
rose
davis
smits

[Miller4ever]

Kellogg doesn't stack up as a player?

What I mean is, his contributions as a Pacer were unfortunately cut short. Granger has played more games than Kellogg already, and will contribute more to the Pacers.

I am very aware of Kellogg's statistical prowess.

[Miller4ever]

At power forward, O'Neal is for me a pretty easy choice. He had his faults, but he's the most talented four the Pacers have ever had (I saw McGinniss play, and JO was better).

McGinnis was a much better team player than O'Neal, and rebounded with more intensity, and could shoot the 3. O'Neal was a better post player, blocking shots and posting up. I'll admit that NBA McGinnis kinda sucked, but in terms of being the better Pacer (not the better player) I'd go with McGinnis. That man brought some serious hardware to Indy.

[colts2004]

cant speak for the ABA days because i wasnt born but for modern day heres mine

pg mark jackson
sg reggie
sf danny granger
pf dale davis (i like jo but dale was a badass and he wasnt injury prone like jo)
c rik smits

before hibberts career is over, we ill be adding him to the center list!

[Jackson Jiggle]

Why isn't Fred Hoiberg on the list?

[mizzoupacers]

McGinnis was a much better team player than O'Neal, and rebounded with more intensity, and could shoot the 3. O'Neal was a better post player, blocking shots and posting up. I'll admit that NBA McGinnis kinda sucked, but in terms of being the better Pacer (not the better player) I'd go with McGinnis. That man brought some serious hardware to Indy.

Yeah, I'll allow that it's at least a closer call than I said earlier. I remember McGinniss best from his first season with Philadelphia, when he was still very good but probably not quite at his peak. Besides, far be it from me to malign a dude who could shoot jump shots one-handed. That was as amazing in its own way as the things that his teammate Dr. J. was doing.

[colts2004]

best 6th man would be jalen or mckey?

best coach by far slick.... larry bird and brown were great to

[Miller4ever]

Yeah, I'll allow that it's at least a closer call than I said earlier. I remember McGinniss best from his first season with Philadelphia, when he was still very good but probably not quite at his peak. Besides, far be it from me to malign a dude who could shoot jump shots one-handed. That was as amazing in its own way as the things that his teammate Dr. J. was doing.

At his peak McGinnis was right up there with Dr. J. He also has a retired jersey.

I'll revise and say that the 5 should be the retired jerseys plus Buse.

[count55]

I was young, but old enough to tell you that McGinnis was probably the most talented Pacer ever, by a relatively wide margin. He was freakishly good, and JO doesn't really belong in the conversation with him.

I also watched Buse, and he was a good defender, but his All Defense nods were more because of his steal numbers than being an actual lockdown guy. Both Jackson and Freddie Lewis were better all around basketball players.

Rajah was the best Small Forward.

[Solid]

1,Buse- Well rounded, quiet game. Like Mckey was great glue guy and stats were good but you may not notice him,
Jackson - Great floor general. Everyone just settled down and found their spot when mark was on the floor.
2.Reggie - Miller the killer. Constant motion. Great heart. An absolute dagger in the opponents heart.
Rose - well rounded, played with a nice chip on his shoulder.
Billy Keller. A point maybe but I remember him as a shooter. Like Reggie you just felt that if you got him the ball at the finish it was all over.
3.Roger - Give him the ball and get out of his way. Almost unstoppable. Offensively at least, a GOAT candidate
Ron's an Ahole but for awhile he made guys like Lebron and Pierce and Kobe not even want the ball. LOVE his game!
Granger - fluid, does everything and we may yet not have seen his best game. Kellogg prolly better talent than DG and a great guy. pity)
4. McGinnis was a beast. MVP candidate. You did NOT want to take a charge from this guy!
JO -Awesome physical specimen, great skill set.
DD - NO weak stuff in his lane for years. Realistically in building a team it would be very tuff to keep Dale and Ron off the court.
5.Mel - Big, confident,well rounded. Made those around him better.
Rik - One of the best stroking 7 footers ever, and did have a post game. Hard to shoot over.

Saw them all.

[Miller4ever]

Ginnis wasn't just a candidate. He won it.

[Wizop]

as much as I loved the Reggie years, Rajah was a better player. Reggie got his points as a shooter coming off screens, Rajah made his own shot and at game end we routinely moved 4 guys to the left side of the key and let Rajah go one on one on the right side.

so, if the object is to assemble the team that would win the most games, I'll reconsider and start

Bose at point, Rajah at the two, McGinnis at the three, Mel at the four, and Rik at five.

yes I know Mel played center but at 6'9" in today's game he'd have to be a 4, and George would just make it work.

second team?

Mark Jackson or Freddie Lewis at point, Reggie at two, Billy Knight at 3, Clark Kellogg at 4, and JO at 5.

who fills out the roster? well whichever point guard you left off the second team is an easy 11th man leaving a need to a 4/5 swing man at 12. that'd be Dale Davis I think. in fact if you want to play DD as your second unit 4 and leave Clark on the bench, okay.

honorable mention Darnell Hillman, Jalen Rose, Herb Williams, Granger, Antonio Davis, McKey,

[Miller4ever]

I'm going to have to disagree.

Reggie's ability to stretch the floor and not get in the way of other people's offense and his clutch play makes him a desirable 2 guard. I would have Brown at the 3. Having him next to Reggie is much better than having him next to McGinnis. One needs the ball to create, one plays off of it. Both are dangerous scorers.

In the middle, Daniels is a much better anchor than Smits. He's got better rebounding and defense, and when you're trying to win games, a strong post presence is preferred to a finesse scorer. Also, in those days, players were measured without shoes. Daniels would be 6'10", making him taller than a Ben Wallace. On this squad that's the kind of role he would play, but with better offense. Plus, would you really want Smits guarding C's and Daniels guarding PF's?

McGinnis has to be at the 4. He even played center sometimes. I doubt we would put the Kevin Garnetts, Chris Webbers, and Charles Barkleys at the 3. Yes, they could play there, but they flourish at the power forward spot, between their athleticism, shooting range, and passing skills.

So now, the team construction is more balanced when you have:

Don Buse - Floor general, pickpocket, and good off-the-ball player and distributor. Pilots with an even keel, and can shoot the 3. Fastest hands the franchise has ever known.

Reggie Miller - Stretches the defense, plays off-the-ball, gets to the free-throw line and plays clutch. Ability to get hot with just a catch and shoot makes it so he complements any ball-dominant wing.

Roger Brown - Best as a 1-on-1 player, for instant offense. Ball is in his hands for the last play, but Reggie will have an open shot. Go-to offensive option. Can shoot the 3.

George McGinnis - The focal point for the Pacers. Offense starts with him, and his unselfish passing makes him a great asset in the post. He can also step out for a long-range shotput.

Mel Daniels - The anchor. He is the imposing force on the inside. Coaches have stated he is as good as Nate Thurmond, so translating it into today's language, imagine somewhere between Ben Wallace and Dwight Howard with a jump shot thrown in.

[Wizop]

there is no question that no matter who starts and who finishes, your 5 will be on the floor together quite a bit. whether Mel starts at 4 or 5, as players come in and out of the game he'll wind up both places. and Rajah will get minutes at 2 and 3.