Bargnani vs. Gallinari

[F1uxCapacit0r]

yeah this thread is def bookmarked. cant wait to bring it up when season starts

[NBA Fan 1234]

yeah this thread is def bookmarked. cant wait to bring it up when season starts

Cool? Congrats? Can't wait until the season starts.

[Kabookalu]

I'm MIA for a week and this thread is still going on, lulz.

Raps fan, Bargs fan, optimist. I think Bargs is going to kill it this year. But leaving aside my biased opinion, for those who were asking about his play this summer for the national team here are some nice highlights. His game has evolved a lot...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swc4KCg9V7s[/youtube]

His blocks, especially the ones near the end, are "center" like.

[clownparade]

its impossible to tell who will be the better player when its all said and done, but the one thing we can all agree on is that both are superstars in the making and will both be in mvp contention in a few years.

[Subway Token]

I'm not shocked that NY fans think Gallo is better. Fans tend to overrate their own players. But if this debate must go on, I say wait until at least 10 games into the season and we shall see who produces more. I dare you to bring this thread up 10 games into the season.

Bargs will be the first option on that team, while Gallo will be the 3rdish. Maybe 2nd.

[F1uxCapacit0r]

Who remembers all the awesome Bogut V Bargnani threads?

Only Bucks fans.

A heap of Raptors fans thought Bargs was the better player just 6 months ago. It will happen again this season too when Bargnani has a good stretch of games. I don't know if that counts as stubborn or stupid though.

true... lets hope bogut actually stays healthy for once...

[tsherkin]

This will be a really BIG test for Bargnani.

I may have mentioned it before, but what people aren't talking about a great deal with respect to Bargs is that the vast majority of his offense is set up for him by other players. He's shown some signs over the last year or so that he's developing a decent post game and that he's got some face-up skills, but I'd be expecting a pretty big dip in his efficiency if he's called upon to score in a lot of isolation sets.

A guy whose shot is his best weapon is best served, regardless of size, moving around screens and catching the ball in motion on the way to the rim. I mean, in general, this helps ANY player, but with the threat of the shot, guys can't play back to avoid the drive. If the Raptors are able to do that for him a good chunk of the time, then mix in some post-ups, get him as the trailer in the secondary break, run some PnRs with him, he'll look pretty decent on offense if he can adjust to the kind of defensive coverage he can expect now that Bosh isn't there to make life easier for everyone. He's still apt to be a crap defensive rebounder, he'll probably be a passable offensive rebounder again, and he's still a pretty weak help defender.

Gallo, well, he could stand to benefit from some MORE assisted buckets under the arc, but he also needs to finish better at the rim, because he's below where he needs to be there. He's right about where you would expect a PF or C to be in terms of assisted baskets, though, so it's not a huge deal. He's an OK shooter, nothing special this past season, should look better with Stoudemire attracting defensive attention. Gallo was a good player last year, and he's younger. He's also nearly as good a rebounder as Bargnani, which is kind of pathetic for Bargs, since Danilo's a small forward, mostly. This coming season, Gallo's scoring is probably going to take a hit because not just Amare is joining the team, but Azubuike is a pretty decent scoring threat/shooter as well. But his already-good efficiency (Gallo's) should go up again, which will help him out.

I dunno, this is something you want to look at 20 games in, 41 games in, then at the break and at the end of the regular season. Those are usually the big markers for player performance, or close enough to them anyhow.

[F1uxCapacit0r]

10 games in gives a feel for what each players roll will be for there respective team.

Much like last year, Gallo will be forced to be camped on the 3pt line because he is one of few players on the knicks who can consistantly spread the floor.

I know im a little biased being a raptors fan, but i have a hard time believing a third option on knicks offense will out produce a #1 scoring option on the fast paced raptors.

statistically bargs should blow gallo out of the water

And as for Bargs not being effected by bosh statistically, What % of the defensive rebounds for toronto did bosh grab last year. He's leaving behind like 8 defensive rebounds and i have a hard time believing Foul prone amir can grab 10 boards a game

[tsherkin]

10 games in gives a feel for what each players roll will be for there respective team.

But it does nothing to account for small sample sizes, short shooting streaks, rust from the off-season, lingering conditioning issues, etc, etc.

I know im a little biased being a raptors fan, but i have a hard time believing a third option on knicks offense will out produce a #1 scoring option on the fast paced raptors.

"Fast paced" + Raptors?

And as for Bargs not being effected by bosh statistically, What % of the defensive rebounds for toronto did bosh grab last year. He's leaving behind like 8 defensive rebounds and i have a hard time believing Foul prone amir can grab 10 boards a game

My point is that Bargs' DRB% ROSE when Bosh had his best season, where if there was a negative correlation, you'd have expected him NOT to have a career season.

In any case, the Raptors were the 8th-worst defensive rebounding team in the league last year, so it was mostly the other teaming destroying us on the offensive glass that was limiting the number of defensive boards we got, not so much Bosh cannibalizing defensive boards from Mr. "I refuse to move in order to chase a rebound, they must come to ME" and his crappy defensive rebounding.

[F1uxCapacit0r]

Him having a career year rebounding while bosh did as well could just be accounted to his progression as a player. saying he wont get more rebounds is like saying curry wouldn't get more shot if ellis wasn't there.

How can you say Bargs is the same rebounder with or without bosh when he played beside bosh his entire career? i dont understand that.

and yes 10 games is a small sample size but it IS a good read on what type of roll a player takes with a specific team. 10 games in you see how much of the offense the team is trying to run through them etc...

[F1uxCapacit0r]

by fast paced i mean they were top 5 in FG made and points scored.

[tsherkin]

by fast paced i mean they were top 5 in FG made and points scored.

Yeah, they were a middle-of-the-pack team in terms of how fast they played the game, it's just that we were really efficient. Remember, we were a top-5 offense in the league last year.

That's where the made-FG and total points come from, not pace. And even our final pace ranking belies how we started the season, which was still fairly slow and methodical. We run more when Jack is on the floor, but Calderon is not a transition PG in the NBA (though he seems more willing to run when he's coming off the bench; very Manu-like, more energy as a reserve).

Him having a career year rebounding while bosh did as well could just be accounted to his progression as a player. saying he wont get more rebounds is like saying curry wouldn't get more shot if ellis wasn't there.

No, it's not. There are a certain number of available rebounds. The Raptors were a TERRIBLE defensive rebounding team, which means there were plenty of rebounding opportunities. Bargs is a PYLON, not a defensive rebounder, that caused him far more problems than anything else. If he starts moving his feet and chasing rebounds, he'll be way better. Bargs being a crappy rebounder is a product of his crappy rebounding habits, not of Bosh stealing boards from him.

and yes 10 games is a small sample size but it IS a good read on what type of roll a player
takes with a specific team. 10 games in you see how much of the offense the team is trying to run through them etc...

Oh, I agree that 10 games is a good sample for evaluating HOW a team plans to use a player, but it's largely useless to evaluate how good a player is going to be or how well he is adapting to the role, that's what I meant. It's more useful to wait the extra 10 games, then you can combine both a decent sample of how the player is adapting to the role AND what that role is specifically.

[F1uxCapacit0r]

Tsherkin i guess we will have to agree to disagree until the season starts.

[tsherkin]

Tsherkin i guess we will have to agree to disagree until the season starts.

Well, I mean it's possible that this new Raptors team will run more, because we have more athletes and what-not, but there is no possibility of disagreement as far as last year is concerned. You'd be factually incorrect in asserting that the 09/10 Raptors were a fast team, because they flat-out weren't. They were slightly above-league average, which is not "fast."

If you're trying to say you expect them to be faster this season, then I'm 100% inclined to agree, however.

[blueNorange]

gallinari is mentally tougher and plays with a killer instinct, he wins by default.

come back when bargnani answers back to melo talking trash or pierce, wallace, and garnett elbowing him in the face on purpose.

[F1uxCapacit0r]

Who has the bigger game tonight.? seeing as how Gallo is injured ....

[Throwback24]

Andrea Bargnani because he is taller, is that a valid argument? They're the same player and I prefer the one who's taller and can abuse mismatches when he starts at the 5.

[F1uxCapacit0r]

few games into the season. hows it look so far?

Player A) 11.6 ppg / 3.8 rpg / 1 Apg / .6spg / .8bpg
Player B) 20.3ppg / 4.8rpg / 1.2apg / .3spg / 1.3bpg

[tsherkin]

Let's at least pay lip service to the fact that despite shooting 47%+ from 3, Bargs' scoring efficiency is just about league average, and that when he stops being so hot from downtown, he'll probably dip under league average. And the fact that he's averaging 4.8 rpg in 34.5 mpg, which is pathetic.

Oh yes, and the fact that Gallo has a wrist problem at the moment.

[Relentless88]

Half the PGs in the league average more rebounds than Bargnani.