Retro POY 1961-62 (Voting Complete)

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Re: Retro POY 1961-62 (voting ends Friday morning) 

Post#41 » by ThaRegul8r » Mon Sep 20, 2010 10:16 pm

YvesSmith1 wrote:as a response to regul8or as well, it's really kind funny for you to be judging intent beyond words and supposing that your version is probably correct. My supposition is that you're wrong and Russell meant the first quote quite literally.


Of course you would, because it is in your interest to. I'm not "judging intent beyond words." I'm going on what the man himself actually said (like you, right?) once he was retired, and at that point no longer had anything to worry about since he was out of the league. And looking at the evidence, it fits with what we already know about Russell. As I said, I will attempt to re-find the direct quote, as I don't expect anyone to just take my word for it.
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Re: Retro POY 1961-62 (voting ends Friday morning) 

Post#42 » by JordansBulls » Mon Sep 20, 2010 10:23 pm

semi-sentient wrote:* = led the league

Regular Season

Code: Select all

Player            GP   MIN    PTS    TS%    REB    AST
=======================================================
Bill Russell      76   45.2   18.9   .489   23.6    4.5
Wilt Chamberlain  80   48.5*  50.4*  .536   25.7*   2.4
Oscar Robertson   79   44.3   30.8   .554   12.5   11.4*
Elgin Baylor      48   44.4   38.3   .492   18.6    4.6
Jerry West        75   41.2   30.8   .524    7.9    5.4



Post Season

Code: Select all

Player            GP   MIN    PTS    TS%    REB    AST
=======================================================
Bill Russell      14   48.0*  22.4   .519   26.4    5.0
Wilt Chamberlain  12   48.0*  35.0   .508   26.6*   3.1
Oscar Robertson    4   46.3   28.8   .519   11.0   11.0*
Elgin Baylor      13   43.9   38.6*  .503   17.7    3.6
Jerry West        13   42.8   31.5   .544    6.8    4.4



Awards Recognition / Misc

Code: Select all

Player            MVP     All-NBA   Team Record
===============================================
Bill Russell      1st     2nd       60-20*
Wilt Chamberlain  2nd     1st       49-31
Oscar Robertson   3rd     1st       43-37
Elgin Baylor      4th     1st       54-26
Jerry West        5th     1st       54-26


Never understood this. How is Bill Russell the MVP and finished 2nd team all NBA?
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Re: Retro POY 1961-62 (voting ends Friday morning) 

Post#43 » by Dr Positivity » Mon Sep 20, 2010 10:23 pm

I'm putting Russell first. The DRTG gap is just WAY too big. I know Wilt helped his team more offensively and had one of his good years defensively, but Russ basically guarantees you a title worthy team by himself assuming that d holds wherever he goes. Who else in history can do that? Jordan couldn't. Kareem couldn't. I'd go as far to say Russ during this period is the most valuable player compared to the rest of his league, ever. You can still argue against him as GOAT because this has as much to do with what his era lacked as what he had, but compared to his time nobody can win a title with anyone during these years like he can. Boston's offense sucked and they still were 5.6 SRS points ahead of everyone else. In 63 it was the worst in the league and they still won. For all the talk of Russ winning cause of his HOF teammates I think it's the opposite. He carried these teams on his back.

Oscar vs Wilt is tough. In 64 Wilt anchored a 87 DRTG (5 ahead of 3rd place) which made me think his defense compared to replacement level had such an impact that it outweighed any offense only contribution Oscar had. This year his DRTG is 92.5 which is good for 3rd place, but only .8 above league average. On the other hand this is by the most dominant Cinci offense (3.7 ahead of 2nd, 5.4 ahead of league average). And it came before Jerry Lucas. With that said Wilt also had a large offensive impact and Oscar had an OK defensive one. I'm going with Oscar 2nd. He had a dominant, dominant offensive year, all he needed was just league average defense. I think Oscar is one of the most unlucky players in history. He came in the wrong era, cause defense was so hard to find. In a different decade you could patch together a defense on the level of the Showtime Lakers or the Cavs the last two years and win 55-60 games every year on the result of his offense

What to do with Elgin Baylor? Absolutely AMAZING year and had that GOAT worthy playoff game. Almost won the title. But we're talking most valuable season here. 48 GP makes it tough as hell. I have to put him below Pettit who I'm not punishing for the lack of Ws, they had a Cinci like great offense and absurdly bad defense - and we know from the rest of Pettit's career he helps his team win. And I'm putting him below West dropping 30/8/7. So Elgin misses. This is the toughest leave off I've had. Elgin's a guy who's gotten burned all decade POY share wise for playing at the same time as 4 all-time players, then in one of his most special seasons he has to be left off.

Pettit vs West. Give me the super experienced vet over the sophmore.

1. Russell
2. Oscar
3. Wilt
4. Pettit
5. West

EPIC HM: Baylor

Not so HM: Bellamy and Richie Guerin. Epic stats... and anchored the two worst offenses in the league.
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Re: Retro POY 1961-62 (voting ends Friday morning) 

Post#44 » by Dr Positivity » Mon Sep 20, 2010 10:43 pm

Man Bellamy's year is even more confusing than Wilt's 63. He puts up 32ppg on the best FG% and TS% in the league, with top 3-4 offensive rebounding, and it leads to Chicago having THE worst ORTG in the league. What the f? How can the league's best % scorer take that many shots and have ZERO impact? Wilt 63 and Dantley at least led average offensives. It really makes me reconsider the value of individual scoring stats and that the true value of offense may be the .60 TS%+ inside and outside shots you create for role players rather than your own decent efficiency shots. Especially in this era. Still though, Bellamy is a pantheon empty stat guy
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Re: Retro POY 1961-62 (voting ends Friday morning) 

Post#45 » by penbeast0 » Mon Sep 20, 2010 11:07 pm

The Celtics were the cream of the league. They won 60 games but even more emblematic of their regular season dominance, they had an SRS of 8.25, the league’s second best SRS was only 2.63 and team with the second best record had was under 2.

The Celtics were Russell’s team as much as any season in their history. Heinsohn was the leading scorer, but “only” around 22ppg with weak efficiency and mediocre defense. The second highest scorer (and second best shooting efficiency) was actually . . . Bill Russell (19/24/5) as Sam Jones, Cousy, and Ramsey played more limited minutes. No one else on this team is a serious top 5 candidate.

Wilt in Philly had the greatest statistical season ever 50 friggin points, 25 friggin rebounds, every friggin game while averaging over 48 minutes a night!!! And, he was second in the league in fg% by a hair while facing defenses built to stop him every night. (it helps that this was his best ft shooting season too). His scoring went way down in the playoffs – people say it was deliberate to aid team scoring but although Arizin and Meschery averaged 20 ppg in the playoffs, no one on the damn team but Wilt even shot .400 – AND Wilt’s shooting percentages dropped badly in the playoffs too. If this was strategy, it wasn’t impressive. This team had solid players in HOFs Paul Arizin and Tom Gola (hobbled in playoffs) plus Guy Rodgers, Al Attles, and Meschery . . . and they had a good season taking Boston to 7 but although it was Wilt’s individual year, it was Boston’s team year.

LA was actually the second best team in the league despite Elgin Baylor playing only half the season due to military commitments. Baylor was a monster when he played (38/19/5) but West was also outstanding (31/8/5) and his leadership held the team together as Elgin was on again/off again. Both were together for the playoffs and went to the finals (at full regular season numbers) before also taking Boston to 7 in their loss.

Other individual seasons:

Oscar had the second silliest stat line of this inflationary season (without even expansion to blame!) as he put up a tripled triple double (31/13/11 on .478 from the field). He had good help from Wayne Embry and Jack Twyman but though the Royals had a winning record, they lost to under .500 Detroit 3-1 in round 1 of the playoffs.

Bob Pettit had another spectacular year with 31/19/4 but his team dropped to a miserable 29-51 as they lost center Clyde Lovellette to injury and PG Lenny Wilkens to military service. Unlike West, Pettit couldn’t hold them together despite a typical good year from Cliff Hagan.

Finally, Walt Bellamy put up numbers almost identical to Pettit’s, 32/19/3, while leading the league in FG% on a truly awful expansion Chicago franchise. They had no other decent players at all, their second best was the immortal Andy Johnson (though they did have future coach Slick Leonard) which meant that Bells put up those numbers facing the kind of double and triple teams that only Wilt otherwise saw.

My top 5

1. Bill Russell – the Celtics were dominant and he was the reason. Year after year the results are the same and he’s the constant.
2. Wilt – Hard to put arguably the greatest season in NBA history in second but for me it’s about MVP including playoffs and that’s Russell
3. Oscar – More great stats though the playoff loss almost had me put West here
4. West – great numbers and leadership keeping team winning
5. Bellamy – great season with epically weak teammates

HM: Pettit – unlike West, couldn’t hold the team together in the face of TWO major losses and maybe I’m being unfair but that let Bellamy slip by him.
Baylor – missed too many games – maybe I missed that the Lakers were a lot better in those he played; if no one has checked that, I’d appreciate it.
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Re: Retro POY 1961-62 (voting ends Friday morning) 

Post#46 » by Warspite » Tue Sep 21, 2010 12:49 am

Doctor MJ wrote:
Warspite wrote:The last paragraph of DrMJs post is what realy angers me in any anti Wilt rant. To stand up and say that Wilt played bad and was a underachiever because he didnt put up 50ppg is realy beyond the pale.


First, let me make it clear if it isn't already: I'm not saying Wilt's a scrub, I'm making points for why out of billions of people in the world at the time, Wilt was only having the 2nd most impact. Because the debate is largely whether he's #1 or #2, obviously I'll be saying negative things about Wilt. That doesn't mean I think he was playing "bad".

So I guess I'm not really sure what you take issue with other than the fact that there is negativity being directed toward Wilt. Surely you'd agree the fact that Wilt was less effective against Boston than he was against others is a feather in Russell's cap?

I supposed it's inevitable that someone would say "He's still scoring 30+, Jordan would call that a good day!". I analyze these things with more nuance than that though. Personal efficiency is big, and ability to make use of teammates is big. Simply put, if Wilt's efficiency is being held in check, and he's not doing wonders distributing the ball, is net value decreases rapidly.


By this post Oscar should have been your #1 guy the last several yrs and Baylor who avgs 39ppg in both reg season and playoffs should get a huge nod in your opinion. I have seen several playoff games from 1962. Baylorfouling out half the Celtics and Wilt dominating Russell. The games are available to watch.


Let me be clear about what I said Wilt had a regular season that no man in the history of the world could do. So he achieves the impossible and then and then is slamed for not repeating an impossible feat. Its like telling Sir Edmund Hillary that hes a failure anytime he climbs a mountain because its not Everest or Neil Armstrong that hes a terrible pilot because he didnt reach the moon.

If I watch basketball and see that player A is better than player B (and by a wide margin) Am I supposed to go by what I see or compare what they did reg season vs post season and the player with the smallest deviation be the best? Theres an argumnet to be made that Wilt wasnt the best player or didnt have the best season in 1962. Your post was just either too lazy or dishonest to make it IMHO. Its the double standard that Iam against not the conclusions that your reach.

Every NBA player is compared to his peers except Wilt Chamberlain who is compared only to himself.
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Re: Retro POY 1961-62 (voting ends Friday morning) 

Post#47 » by Sedale Threatt » Tue Sep 21, 2010 2:19 am

I've been a big Wilt defender in this project, but I don't have any problem giving him a pretty substantial markdown for the playoffs. Indeed, I don't see how you can't.

I will say this, however -- at least one guy who has already posted in this thread was making the same argument in LeBron's favor (why are we comparing him to himself as opposed to his peers?) when his postseason production dipped, so it will be interesting if the same standard applies.

Speaking for myself, I don't see how such a big drop in scoring can be ignored, even if Wilt at 70% is still better than 99% of the rest of the league. The bottom line is, he failed to meet his standard in a pretty big way.
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Re: Retro POY 1961-62 (voting ends Friday morning) 

Post#48 » by YvesSmith1 » Tue Sep 21, 2010 2:45 am

I honestly can't see how someone can be knocked for scoring less when they also shot less...looking at his offensive efficiency vs. the celtics doesn't mean much for the same reason, as it's not as if he was shooting a bunch of shots(plus, his team still almost won, it's not as if they lost badly because he stopped shooting people!) It's funny that Chamberlain is knocked for this when Russell usually has that poor or worse of efficiency in either regular season or playoffs.

The only way you could look at Wilt shooting less is if it was by design or the celtics were abusing Wilt badly by hitting him. There is evidence of both, especially the abuse part in the early part of his career. Thus, knocking him for it is kinda pointless.

Did I fail to mention that Wilt had scored the last 6 points for the Warriors in that game 7? Just as he had scored the past 10 in game 7 in 1965? And he gets knocked for not being clutch....
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Re: Retro POY 1961-62 (voting ends Friday morning) 

Post#49 » by Doctor MJ » Tue Sep 21, 2010 3:08 am

YvesSmith1 wrote:I honestly can't see how someone can be knocked for scoring less when they also shot less...looking at his offensive efficiency vs. the celtics doesn't mean much for the same reason, as it's not as if he was shooting a bunch of shots


Please post any information you have on Wilt's shot taking.

What I know:

Game 1, team went 12 of 46 in the first half, during which Wilt scored 12 points. Game was over when Wilt scored the rest of his 31 points.

Game 2, Wilt scored 42 and Philly won.

Game 3, Wilt goes for 33 & 29, Russell goes for 31 & 31

Game 4, Wilt goes for 41 and is praised for his efficiency on 29 FGA and 22 FTA, which means 53 TS%. One would assume that was particularly efficiency for Wilt in this series. Philly wins.

Game 5 - Wilt scores 30, but goes 4-13 in the first half. Russell had 29.

Game 6 - Wilt scores 32, but starts the game 1-10.

Game 7 - Wilt scores 22.

The repeated trend of Wilt starting these games with lots of misses, combined with the fact that he still reached 40 in 2 games, sure makes me think that Wilt didn't start this series with any plan to not score a ton.

But look, if you want to want to make the point though that considering what we don't know, and considering how close Philly came to winning, it doesn't make sense to push Russell past Wilt, that's perfectly reasonable. I don't even really disagree.
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Re: Retro POY 1961-62 (voting ends Friday morning) 

Post#50 » by YvesSmith1 » Tue Sep 21, 2010 3:12 am

40 points in that era probably wasn't considered a ton to him or to anyone who knew how he generally played :)

And yes, that's my general argument.
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Re: Retro POY 1961-62 (voting ends Friday morning) 

Post#51 » by ThaRegul8r » Tue Sep 21, 2010 3:24 am

^ BTW, I would be interested in reading your thoughts in this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1053642
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Re: Retro POY 1961-62 (voting ends Friday morning) 

Post#52 » by Doctor MJ » Tue Sep 21, 2010 4:21 am

Warspite wrote: By this post Oscar should have been your #1 guy the last several yrs and Baylor who avgs 39ppg in both reg season and playoffs should get a huge nod in your opinion. I have seen several playoff games from 1962. Baylorfouling out half the Celtics and Wilt dominating Russell. The games are available to watch.

Let me be clear about what I said Wilt had a regular season that no man in the history of the world could do. So he achieves the impossible and then and then is slamed for not repeating an impossible feat. Its like telling Sir Edmund Hillary that hes a failure anytime he climbs a mountain because its not Everest or Neil Armstrong that hes a terrible pilot because he didnt reach the moon.

If I watch basketball and see that player A is better than player B (and by a wide margin) Am I supposed to go by what I see or compare what they did reg season vs post season and the player with the smallest deviation be the best? Theres an argumnet to be made that Wilt wasnt the best player or didnt have the best season in 1962. Your post was just either too lazy or dishonest to make it IMHO. Its the double standard that Iam against not the conclusions that your reach.

Every NBA player is compared to his peers except Wilt Chamberlain who is compared only to himself.


I should have Oscar #1? I don't understand how you come to these conclusions. Not the idea of someone saying he's #1 (not unreasonable), but saying that I can only be logically coherent in my criticisms of Wilt in favor of the GOAT defender if I prefer other offense-oriented stars to the GOAT defender makes zero sense.

Your vehemence adds to what I've been feeling recently with a disturbing large fraction of Wilt-supporters. When Wilt's involved, we can't just disagree respectively. No it's got to be a moral judgment against any one who dares rank Wilt below #1. Honestly I'm not even frustrated, I'm just amazed. I've said before that I worry about underrating Wilt - believe me, it's on my mind. Posts like this though don't make me doubt myself.
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Re: Retro POY 1961-62 (voting ends Friday morning) 

Post#53 » by Doctor MJ » Tue Sep 21, 2010 4:41 am

YvesSmith1 wrote:40 points in that era probably wasn't considered a ton to him or to anyone who knew how he generally played :)

And yes, that's my general argument.


Okay, assume that he had a similar mentality in all of these games, and he scored 40+ when all was going well. Seems pretty safe assumption since Philly won both of those games, it's pretty dang unlikely that him scoring less in other games was due to Philly deciding that they didn't like it when he was scoring 40.

In the game we have exact numbers for where he scored 40+, he had roughly 39 "real" shots. By that I mean what TS% uses to divide points by to judge efficiency. During the regular season he shot about 47. There we'd have about a 83% usage compared to his norm, and as I mentioned, his scoring went down to about 65% of his norm.

And that's before you even get into additional possessions where he turned the ball over or passed the ball back out impotently - which it's perfectly reasonable to expect happened in greater doses against Boston than against others since that's what good defense does, and since we know that at least later in his career Wilt had major problems along these lines.

So yeah, it seems pretty clear that Wilt was being held below his norms, even without remembering that Wilt scored a hell less volume and less efficiency against Russell during the regular season too.
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Re: Retro POY 1961-62 (voting ends Friday morning) 

Post#54 » by Mean_Streets » Tue Sep 21, 2010 5:04 am

1. Bill Russell (Outplayed Chamberlain in that game 7)
2. Wilt Chamberlain
3. Oscar Robertson
4. Elgin Baylor (Only played 48 games in RS, but had great PS, easily better than West when healthy)
5. Jerry West
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Re: Retro POY 1961-62 (voting ends Friday morning) 

Post#55 » by YvesSmith1 » Tue Sep 21, 2010 3:40 pm

Mean_Streets wrote:1. Bill Russell (Outplayed Chamberlain in that game 7)

Not true. It was Bill Russell that was afraid of Chamberlain the entire series. I have no idea why those old newspaper articles that chronicled this were taken down from google search. I'll try to look for them again...but make no mistake, it was Russell, not Chamberlain, who was having the hard time.
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Re: Retro POY 1961-62 (voting ends Friday morning) 

Post#56 » by Sedale Threatt » Tue Sep 21, 2010 4:49 pm

To piggyback on Dipper's post, there is a frustrating lack of details regarding the end of Game 7, and the strategies involved in the series regarding Wilt, in either "The Rivalry" or Cherry's "Wilt."

Cherry writes about the controversial goaltending call by Mendy Rudolph that put the Celtics up by five with 1:24 left. Wilt ties the game with his three-point play, then Sam "The Robert Horry of the 60s" Jones drilled the winner.

Said Warriors coach Frank McGuire: "I don't mind getting beaten, but I hate losing on a lousy decision like that."

There is no mention of that in "The Rivalry," but author John Taylor writes that McGuire was so pissed after the game he punched a hole in the door to the officials' dressing room. Asked who had beaten him, he said, "The referees. Did you ever see such homers?"

Taylor contends that his beef was a timing error that left them with just one second instead of three to attempt a last-ditch shot. Years later, according to the footnotes, Red Auberbach admitted that a "malfunction" in the Garden clock to skip forward in the final seconds of each quarter.

Only Cherry writes about the physical pounding Chamberlain endured.

"Wilt has to be the best-natured guy int he world to stand that punishment and not let loose and clout a couple of those guys," McGuire said. "It's an admirable trait. But I couldn't be that way."

(The thing is, this was a pretty common tactic against Wilt for most of his career. So I'm wondering why it would be especially different now than it was in other moments, with the exception that this was a playoff series.)

Taylor writes that McGuire had Chamberlain move to the top of the key, at least in part to counter the success Russell had against Wilt that year:

Once the series began, Chamberlain was able to score more frequently. In fact, the Warriors five starters -- Chamberlain, Arizin, Rogers, Meschery, Gola -- outscored the Celtics starters -- Russell, Cousy, Heinsohn, Jones, Sanders. But this was offset by the fact Boston's top three relievers -- Ramsey, Jones, Loscutoff -- outscored their counterparts -- Attles, Conlin, Larese -- by an even greater margin.

Writes Cherry about Game 7, and the series:

Wilt and Russell played one another to a standoff.

The Warriors team was not as good as Boston's team. At one point, the Celtics had the best defensive center (Russell), the best defensive forward (Satch Sanders), the best defensive guard (K.C. Jones), the best sixth man (Frank Ramsey, then Havlicek).

Bob Cousy believed this was the best of many great Boston clubs.

The Bulletin's Jim Heffernan pointed out that the Warriors had been underdogs in every game of the series and remained so for the final game. That the Warriors came as close as they did to defeating the Celtics is a testament to Wilt.

Wilt established 10 records during the season, five of which -- average points per game, most points in a season, most points in a game, most games with 50 or more points, most minutes played -- have never been approached.

Hall of Fame writer Leonard Koppett: "Nobody ever wins a team game. Only the team can win. Except for one year in Philadelphia and one in Los Angeles, Wilt was never on a team the rest of which was as good as the Boston Celtics. It's that simple."

Teammate Tom Meschery: "Boston was, man for man, a better team than the Warriors. To go as far as we did was Wilt's doing. We came within two points of the championship."

Reporter Herb Good: "Unfortunately, the novelty of seeing Wilt stuff the ball through the basket is wearing off."

Some of these statements don't seem to jibe with reality -- Koppett's statement that Wilt won the two times he was on better teams, when in fact L.A. was better in 69; Taylor saying Wilt scored "more frequently" after the tactical move -- so take them with a grain of salt.

As is always the case with Wilt, there's a conundrum. On one hand, his postseason production dipped pretty substantially, with some of his games appearing terrible on paper. On the other, his team, without any indication of some superhuman effort from another teammate, came within a hair of beating a significantly better team.
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Re: Retro POY 1961-62 (voting ends Friday morning) 

Post#57 » by semi-sentient » Tue Sep 21, 2010 5:11 pm

Final Rankings:

1. Wilt Chamberlain - I'm not generally impressed with Wilt's numbers and typically consider him a stat-padder, but this year he was an absolutely historic season and really helped his team on both ends of the floor. He was doing it all, and if not for the controversial calls he would have been facing the Lakers in the Finals at which point no one in their right mind would be considering Russell for the top spot.

2. Bill Russell - Great all around season, but not as great as the other two above him. Better teammates and more success, sure, but that's just not enough this year. I agree with ronnymac2's statement about Russell's teammates stepping up whereas Wilt's generally didn't. Russell had a lot more help and despite that they barely escaped the Sixers thanks to some shaddy officiating.

3. Elgin Baylor - Remarkable season considering his Army duties. As a veteran I can't help but respect what he did and I'm completely willing to throw missed games out of the window considering his team went the distance. Blow me if you don't like it. Taking a team to the Finals while putting up the numbers that he did is incredible under those circumstances and I agree with everything that Bill Simmons said in his write up (he makes a compelling case).

4. Oscar Robertson - Impressive numbers, but I think the inflated pace and poor shot selection (leading to so many "dominant" rebounders) takes away from what Oscar did. Still, he did lead the #1 offense in the league so that makes it tough to rank him this low. I don't feel good about it, but the lack of post-season success doesn't really give him any advantages.

5. Jerry West - Solid year, and not much else to say. I didn't see any other candidates that were more worthy.
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Re: Retro POY 1961-62 (voting ends Friday morning) 

Post#58 » by YvesSmith1 » Tue Sep 21, 2010 5:55 pm

Ah....I'm starting to find the articles in question...here is a funny one: look to the picture on the left as you open it:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=fN ... lain&hl=en

Here we go:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=cT ... lain&hl=en

Cousy:
Chamberlain didn't shoot a lot but he played a terrific game defensively. If Chamberlain played like that every game...forget it. Philadelphia played a better game as a team here than it has in several years.


Russell:
I'll tell you something. I haven't slept in a week. Every time I see Wilt it seem's like he's gottan another inch taller


Cousy says after the season is over that Russell was afraid of Wilt coming to block his shot until game 4 of the Lakers series. This should put to rest any doubts of Chamberlain's performance in the conference finals.

Besides the point but article about Cousy's comments on the importance of defense after the year is over and on Elgin Baylor's performance:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=pZ ... lain&hl=en
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Re: Retro POY 1961-62 (voting ends Friday morning) 

Post#59 » by lorak » Tue Sep 21, 2010 5:58 pm

Good post Sedale Threatt.
Add to that what Warspite said: iEvery NBA player is compared to his peers except Wilt Chamberlain who is compared only to himself.

And it's rather obvious that Wilt>Russell.
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Re: Retro POY 1961-62 (voting ends Friday morning) 

Post#60 » by Doctor MJ » Tue Sep 21, 2010 6:19 pm

From Yves link:

Game 7:

Wilt goes for 22 & 21. Russell I knew went for 19 points, and this says 22 rebounds. Wilt's defense is praised. Mention is made that in previous games Wilt shot about 30 times (which about what I estimated for FGA's based on one of Wilt's big scoring games), in this game he shot 15. Who outplayed who? Seems inconclusive.

Incidentally, based on that info, plus the box score, it looks like Wilt went 7-15 FGA, and 8-9 FTA. I'm continually perplexed by his free throws.

Really important question: If Philly really did change their strategy with Wilt for game 7, why? A series as an underdog where they've managed to win half the games, and just came off of a win. Would seem crazy to make any big change for that last game.
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