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Grant out for the year / Sign Dimitri Nance

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Re: Grant out for the year / Sign Dimitri Nance 

Post#381 » by Newz » Tue Sep 21, 2010 6:53 pm

emunney wrote:I didn't make anything up, I think you're confused. I'm using logic on you. Don't let it hurt.


:o

You said if you had though that his offensive line was bad for the past two years. That would be false regardless, considering you can look at those players and determine that they are in fact good players.

You are trying to prove that players are bad if you use that theory (his offensive line)... I'm just trying to determine their importance and value. I'm not trying to prove Chris Johnson is a bad player, he's a great player, I'm just trying to say that him being as dominant as he is really depends on a lot of factors and positions I consider more important.

For example... You put Chris Johnson on the Bills and the Packers still wreck them. If you put the best LT, RT, QB, OLB, DL, CB, etc. on their team... Then they have a much better chance to protect their QB, get to Rodgers, shut down one of our WRs, etc.
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Re: Grant out for the year / Sign Dimitri Nance 

Post#382 » by skones » Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:03 pm

Newz wrote:
skones wrote:You sure do have a large sample size, especially given how Johnson ran over most teams last season despite each and every team keying in to stop him.


I'm not saying it proves anything without a doubt.

I'm saying I find it amusing that I say Chris Johnson wouldn't run over teams if his offensive line wasn't so good and then he comes out, their offensive line gets blasted and he gets totally shut down.


But you are saying, hey look, 'pseudo proof!'

Get real. Teams have bad games, you're not showing anything but blatant ignorance by believing you're legitimately making an argument with one game involving Chris Johnson vs. the Steelers.
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Re: Grant out for the year / Sign Dimitri Nance 

Post#383 » by Newz » Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:11 pm

skones wrote:But you are saying, hey look, 'pseudo proof!'

Get real. Teams have bad games, you're not showing anything but blatant ignorance by believing you're legitimately making an argument with one game involving Chris Johnson vs. the Steelers.


So what you are saying is Chris Johnson will dominate regardless of if his offensive line plays well or not?

That seems a little strange to me, but okay.
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Re: Grant out for the year / Sign Dimitri Nance 

Post#384 » by chuckleslove » Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:24 pm

Jerious Norwood tore his ACL and will be put on IR per Glazer. Good thing we grabbed Nance when we had a chance because he probably would have been promoted from the PS today if we hadn't grabbed him.
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Re: Grant out for the year / Sign Dimitri Nance 

Post#385 » by LUKE23 » Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:29 pm

chuckleslove wrote:Jerious Norwood tore his ACL and will be put on IR per Glazer. Good thing we grabbed Nance when we had a chance because he probably would have been promoted from the PS today if we hadn't grabbed him.


We'll see whether or not that is a good thing in the coming weeks. Just sayin' :D
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Re: Grant out for the year / Sign Dimitri Nance 

Post#386 » by chuckleslove » Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:33 pm

LUKE23 wrote:
chuckleslove wrote:Jerious Norwood tore his ACL and will be put on IR per Glazer. Good thing we grabbed Nance when we had a chance because he probably would have been promoted from the PS today if we hadn't grabbed him.


We'll see whether or not that is a good thing in the coming weeks. Just sayin' :D



Well I don't see much in that it can be a bad thing, its not like we are paying him a ton of guaranteed money, if he sucks we can cut him in a few weeks after the mandatory time passes.
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Re: Grant out for the year / Sign Dimitri Nance 

Post#387 » by skones » Tue Sep 21, 2010 8:01 pm

Newz wrote:
skones wrote:But you are saying, hey look, 'pseudo proof!'

Get real. Teams have bad games, you're not showing anything but blatant ignorance by believing you're legitimately making an argument with one game involving Chris Johnson vs. the Steelers.


So what you are saying is Chris Johnson will dominate regardless of if his offensive line plays well or not?

That seems a little strange to me, but okay.


Now you're just putting words in my mouth. The fact of the matter is EVERYONE tried to stop Chris Johnson last season and nobody could, whether they stacked the box or not. You're basically saying Chris Johnson is talented, but without a good offensive line, he's average, which absolutely is not the case.

Either way, this is all irrelevant.

Brandon Jackson is far below average and our line isn't anything to write home about.
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Re: Grant out for the year / Sign Dimitri Nance 

Post#388 » by Newz » Tue Sep 21, 2010 8:07 pm

skones wrote:Now you're just putting words in my mouth. The fact of the matter is EVERYONE tried to stop Chris Johnson last season and nobody could, whether they stacked the box or not. You're basically saying Chris Johnson is talented, but without a good offensive line, he's average, which absolutely is not the case.


I have said in the past without a good offensive line he is probably putting up 1,000-1,200 yards instead of 2,000. I also said I think he would still gain a ton of yards from scrimmage off of screens and check downs.

I think the running back position is more dependent on other positions than just about every other position on the field aside from possibly WR.

I guess my theory about a football team is to build from the inside out. I would construct offensive and defensive lines, then move out and address LB/TE, then worry about the secondary, then move on to WR, then to RB... Obviously QB is a position you are always looking to get a franchise player at.

The skill positions, especially RB, I think you can get by with more mediocre/average players as opposed to the lines. That theory has also been proven wrong from time to time... Like the Colts line last season which wasn't all that stellar... Though they are good in pass protection, just not in terms of run blocking.

Either way, this is all besides the point.

Brandon Jackson is far below average and our line isn't anything to write home about.


This I all agree with. Although I do like Jackson as a third down back, he is well below average for an every down guy.

I would write home about Sitton though, that guy is a monster. :D I may eventually write home about Bulaga too. :P
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Re: Grant out for the year / Sign Dimitri Nance 

Post#389 » by emunney » Tue Sep 21, 2010 8:54 pm

Newz wrote:
emunney wrote:I didn't make anything up, I think you're confused. I'm using logic on you. Don't let it hurt.


:o

You said if you had though that his offensive line was bad for the past two years. That would be false regardless, considering you can look at those players and determine that they are in fact good players.

You are trying to prove that players are bad if you use that theory (his offensive line)... I'm just trying to determine their importance and value. I'm not trying to prove Chris Johnson is a bad player, he's a great player, I'm just trying to say that him being as dominant as he is really depends on a lot of factors and positions I consider more important.

For example... You put Chris Johnson on the Bills and the Packers still wreck them. If you put the best LT, RT, QB, OLB, DL, CB, etc. on their team... Then they have a much better chance to protect their QB, get to Rodgers, shut down one of our WRs, etc.


Yes. If I thought his OL was bad, I could have felt validated by this performance. Just like how you think RB isn't important and feel validated. There are no facts in either case, only assumptions and conclusions. In my hypothetical, my opinion that the OLine is bad and Johnson has been succeeding in spite of them is validated. In your real life, your opinion that RB is unimportant is validated. Neither one has much to do with facts -- they have to do with biases and selectively confirming them.
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Re: Grant out for the year / Sign Dimitri Nance 

Post#390 » by Newz » Tue Sep 21, 2010 9:30 pm

emunney wrote:Yes. If I thought his OL was bad, I could have felt validated by this performance. Just like how you think RB isn't important and feel validated.


Right, but I'm not trying to say anyone is bad. I'm not trying to prove players are terrible, I'm just trying to prove their importance on the field. I feel like those are so different that it's very hard to compare the two.

I think a far more relevant comparison would be if Chris Johnson got hit in the backfield 50% of the time he got the ball in a game and yet still broke off 100+ yards, you could say that he could be a dominant force without a good offensive line.

Numbers, the eye test and common sense allows us to know that the Titans offensive line and Chris Johnson are both very good. Those are honestly facts, not so much opinions... Where as the importance of a position is far more of an opinion than a fact.

There are no facts in either case, only assumptions and conclusions.


Obviously.

In my hypothetical, my opinion that the OLine is bad and Johnson has been succeeding in spite of them is validated. In your real life, your opinion that RB is unimportant is validated. Neither one has much to do with facts -- they have to do with biases and selectively confirming them.


But those are so far apart that it's difficult to view them in the same light.

That would be like me saying "Chris Johnson is terrible, the only reason he is good is because of his offensive line.". Okay, that is a theory... But it's just ignorant because it's blatantly obvious that Chris Johnson is a great player, just like it is blatantly obvious that their offensive line is very good.

Are the "Chris Johnson is awful, his offensive line makes him" and "Chris Johnson is the greatest ever, he wins despite the worst line in the history of offensive lines" arguments even remotely close to me saying "I think Chris Johnson is great, but I think a lot of his greatness would be taken away if he was playing behind a far inferior offensive line. It's my opinion that I would rather have a great offensive line to open up holes and a subpar running back to run through them than a bad offensive line who cannot open up a hole at all and a great RB who I don't think can go anywhere when the defense is swarming them."?

The first two clearly ignore common sense and ignore a RB who is obviously great and an O-Line which is obviously very good... Where as the last one is just an opinion about the importance of position, while evaluating all of the players on the level that they are actually on.
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Re: Grant out for the year / Sign Dimitri Nance 

Post#391 » by PkrsBcksGphsMqt » Tue Sep 21, 2010 9:37 pm

I wouldn't bring him in, but Larry Johnson was just cut.
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Re: Grant out for the year / Sign Dimitri Nance 

Post#392 » by Scoops » Tue Sep 21, 2010 9:51 pm

PackBuckGophZag wrote:I wouldn't bring him in, but Larry Johnson was just cut.

How does that make sense if Portis is banged up?
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Re: Grant out for the year / Sign Dimitri Nance 

Post#393 » by PkrsBcksGphsMqt » Tue Sep 21, 2010 10:18 pm

Scoops wrote:
PackBuckGophZag wrote:I wouldn't bring him in, but Larry Johnson was just cut.

How does that make sense if Portis is banged up?


Schefter's tweet said they signed Chad Smith because he is good on special teams, something they need at the moment.
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Re: Grant out for the year / Sign Dimitri Nance 

Post#394 » by Newz » Tue Sep 21, 2010 10:21 pm

PackBuckGophZag wrote:
Scoops wrote:
PackBuckGophZag wrote:I wouldn't bring him in, but Larry Johnson was just cut.

How does that make sense if Portis is banged up?


Schefter's tweet said they signed Chad Smith because he is good on special teams, something they need at the moment.


It also probably has something to do with LJ being old and poopy.

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