Carmelo Anthony Thread (Merging)

[Star-Lord]

So that's how people get such a high post count...

Actually most get it with posts like you just made. One random line about absolutely nothing. Usually its because they know nothing. Feel free to contribute something to a basketball conversation. Or are you to busy watching Days Of Our Lives right now. Women..

Wow, dude... I'm not even going to get into how deliciously ironic your post is... I was joking with you. Lighten up.

[dice]

i understand that merely considering the possibility a guy averaging just over 10PPG is better than a guy averaging close to 30 makes peoples' heads explode, but it doesn't mean it's not true

The same can be said about assists and rebounds. You can't discount PPG's while not discounting the others. Melo could have a more "rounded stats" game if Gk had him crashing the boards and had an organized offense that worked through him. He doesn't, so people like you will continue to say Melo can't do anything but score.

1) assists and rebounds always help a team. those are not things that can be artificially inflated in the way that scoring totals can be (by shooting more)

2) i never said melo can't do anything but score. he's a good rebounder and respectable defender when he wants to be

I guess you thought a guy like AI was great at setting up team mates because he had lots of assists?

he didn't have a lot of assists. funny you bring him up though, 'cause he was like a mini-melo. highly overrated

[Sideline Story]

i understand that merely considering the possibility a guy averaging just over 10PPG is better than a guy averaging close to 30 makes peoples' heads explode, but it doesn't mean it's not true

The same can be said about assists and rebounds. You can't discount PPG's while not discounting the others. Melo could have a more "rounded stats" game if Gk had him crashing the boards and had an organized offense that worked through him. He doesn't, so people like you will continue to say Melo can't do anything but score.

1) assists and rebounds always help a team. those are not things that can be artificially inflated in the way that scoring totals can be (by shooting more)

2) i never said melo can't do anything but score. he's a good rebounder and respectable defender when he wants to be

Nutty is clearly stating that the flow of Karl's offense hinders 'Melo's natural ability to rebound. He continues, 'Melo would be able to have a more "rounded" game if Karl used an organized offense that ran through him.

Denver is known for being a threat on the fastbreak, and one of those reasons is for their "Hit n' Run" (basically, take the shot and begin to run back) offense which 'Melo plays a major role in, and this is clear proof of the "rounded game" theory to be true.

Simply basing your premise of a player through a chain of statistics does not make your impression true.

[vincecarter4pres]

And this goes to show you don't watch him play. He could average 9 a game, if GK didn't send him down court to try and score on the fast break. Watch some games, usually when the shot goes up, he takes off.

Right... I'm sure Melo's biggest wish is to be allowed to get into the paint and bang with the big boys for rebounds, instead of leaking out and trying to snatch an easy bucket... Damn that George Karl for not allowing Melo to rebound!

Considering Melo was willing to do the dirty work for the Olympic team after having been the team's scorer, it could be reasoned he is willing to do what it takes to win. Also.. you're statement above shows how completely clueless you are. GK wants Melo and the guards running down the floor after a shot goes up, it is one of the reasons the team is a weak rebounding one. They take off before they have the ball.

Nice attempt at being funny, but you just made yourself look foolish.

Nope, I'm pretty sure it's still you...

[kmsmith5]

The downside of Melo's contract is being overstated by Eneretic. I know my cap very well actually. So here's why I think even overpaying Melo is worth it.
1) You're just not going to get a better player in the next few years other than Paul.(and Anthony could help lure him)
2) if your cap number is over $52mil.(within $6mil. of the cap) then you're buying power is the same. You would have the MLE to offer to outside players. Carmelo wouldn't start adding to buying power until after his 2011-2012 salary dips below about $16mil. Basically, if his salary is $12mil. you could offer $10mil. to a FA.

3)2011 is the last summer before Brook will get a new contract/extension, so it's probably the last chance to add an impact FA using cap space anyway.

4)You're looking at a choice between Carmelo and an MLE player vs. Favors, draft pick(s) and Free Agent X. The decision really hinges on who you think Free Agent X will be. I just don't think the options this summer are too appealing other than Melo.

5) As for 2012 and beyond, Paul will probably be in this same situation come next year. That's why I think swapping Harris sometime this season (hopefully when his value is highest) for a veteran PG like Andre Miller or Chauncey Billups +draft pick would be ideal. This would give NJ an expiring and asset to swap for Paul if he starts to look elsewhere.

[dice]

You can't discount PPG's while not discounting the others. Melo could have a more "rounded stats" game if Gk had him crashing the boards and had an organized offense that worked through him. He doesn't, so people like you will continue to say Melo can't do anything but score.

1) assists and rebounds always help a team. those are not things that can be artificially inflated in the way that scoring totals can be (by shooting more)

2) i never said melo can't do anything but score. he's a good rebounder and respectable defender when he wants to be

Nutty is clearly stating that the flow of Karl's offense hinders 'Melo's natural ability to rebound. He continues, 'Melo would be able to have a more "rounded" game if Karl used an organized offense that ran through him.

Denver is known for being a threat on the fastbreak, and one of those reasons is for their "Hit n' Run" (basically, take the shot and begin to run back) offense which 'Melo plays a major role in, and this is clear proof of the "rounded game" theory to be true.

Simply basing your premise of a player through a chain of statistics does not make your impression true.

and i clearly stated that melo is a good rebounder. and if getting out on the break somewhat hurts his rebounding #s it should at the same time help his scoring #s. it all evens out

george karl has been blamed both for melo's #s and lack of team success in this thread. what will the excuse be when melo's new team disappoints?

[Nutty Nats Fan]

1) assists and rebounds always help a team. those are not things that can be artificially inflated in the way that scoring totals can be (by shooting more)

This here is incorrect. It all depends on how you get those (assists and rebounds). If a player pounds the ball for most of the shot clock then passes to a team mate who has to shoot, he will get some assists, but most likely there will be more missed shots, which doesn't show up in the box score.

A great example though, is Camby. He was a stat whore when it came to blocks and rebounds. He would leave his man unguarded going for the help block or rebound, which could result in offensive rebounds or layups. He was known was pushing team mates out of the way and taking boards right out of team mates hands. That doesn't help a team win and the defense one year was actually better when Najera was on the floor in Camby's place.

Interestingly.. Camby was also nicknamed "Touches" on the team, not AI or Melo.

2) i never said melo can't do anything but score. he's a good rebounder and respectable defender when he wants to be

My mistake.

he didn't have a lot of assists. funny you bring him up though, 'cause he was like a mini-melo. highly overrated

Believe he had at least 6 to 7 per year. Considering Melo isn't overrated, gotta disagree there. You can also build a team around Melo, AI it was much harder to do.

[Nutty Nats Fan]

george karl has been blamed both for melo's #s and lack of team success in this thread. what will the excuse be when melo's new team disappoints?

That's because GK has done a bad job. He starts nobodies, AC and DJ. Over plays nobodies, Malik Allen. And forgive me for being to lazy to go through the years and checking who else he has overplayed. When Billups came to Denver he commented how the team had no inbound plays. That ain't Melo's fault. GK has the fast break offense, which fails in the playoffs. He did not have a half-court system for winning in the playoffs. He doesn't substitute players based on how they are playing, if a bench guy blows up in the 2nd quarter, that player won't be in the game again until the 4th. At times when Melo has started to get hot (couldn't miss) and the team was behind, GK has benched him because that's the time he planned to. He doesn't use time outs to manage the game, etc etc etc.

The only reason he is still coaching Denver is because he is buddies with the owner.

[dice]

1) assists and rebounds always help a team. those are not things that can be artificially inflated in the way that scoring totals can be (by shooting more)

This here is incorrect. It all depends on how you get those (assists and rebounds). If a player pounds the ball for most of the shot clock then passes to a team mate who has to shoot, he will get some assists, but most likely there will be more missed shots, which doesn't show up in the box score

yeah, that's true. but players don't selfishly and intentionally do that kind of thing. rebounding - probably more of that kind of stat inflation goes on, but still not nearly on the level of the me-first scorers

as for camby, he always drastically improves the team defense #s, so he's gotta be doing a whole lot right

Believe [AI] had at least 6 to 7 per year

for a point guard who ALWAYS had the ball, that's quite poor

[Nutty Nats Fan]

Nope, I'm pretty sure it's still you...

Good retort, erm I mean post padding.

[dice]

The only reason [Karl] is still coaching Denver is because he is buddies with the owner.

i'll take your word for it, but he's been hired by 5 different teams and won 3 coach of the year awards in the CBA. he took the bucks to game 7 of the eastern finals w/o great talent. i find it hard to believe that much of the burden falls on him

[Sideline Story]

The only reason [Karl] is still coaching Denver is because he is buddies with the owner.

i'll take your word for it, but he's been hired by 5 different teams and won 3 coach of the year awards in the CBA. he took the bucks to game 7 of the eastern finals w/o great talent. i find it hard to believe that much of the burden falls on him

Phil Jackson and Mike Brown both have the same number of Coach of the Year awards. That must mean something.

[dice]

The only reason [Karl] is still coaching Denver is because he is buddies with the owner.

i'll take your word for it, but he's been hired by 5 different teams and won 3 coach of the year awards in the CBA. he took the bucks to game 7 of the eastern finals w/o great talent. i find it hard to believe that much of the burden falls on him

Phil Jackson and Mike Brown both have the same number of Coach of the Year awards. That must mean something.

lots of guys have won one based on the strength of a great team. you don't get honored multiple times for something without being pretty good at it

anyway, here's more ammunition from a denver fan:

The lack of passing, the lack of an appreciation for what it takes to win in this league from a defensive standpoint and the lack of postseason success is starting to create quite a bit of evidence that Carmelo Anthony is a player who can get you impressive numbers, but might not be the kind of player you can win a title with.

What is most frustrating is he keeps displaying these “getting it” moments only to have them prove to be flash in the pan moments. I see him do certain things on the basketball court, I know he is capable of doing those things and because of that I attribute that characteristic to him. The joke almost always ends up on me as over time it becomes clear that aspect of growth was a fluke.
...
For all his big scoring totals against the Jazz the truth is the Nuggets lost that series due to a porous defense, which Melo played a significant role in.

http://www.roundballminingcompany.com/2010/05/18/how-good-is-carmelo-anthony/

[enetric]

ESPN reports that in the past 72 hours, Carmelo Anthony's representatives have increased pressure on Denver to deal the superstar to either the Knicks or Bulls before training camp opens next week.

The Knicks remain Anthony's top choice but the Bulls are now firmly established as a close second. The Nets and Rockets are also in the picture.

Some within the Denver organization favor slowing down the process, hoping that Anthony might re-consider his stance once he is back with the team on a daily basis.

The Knicks are offering either Danilo Gallinari or Anthony Randolph, but not both, along with the expiring contract of Eddy Curry. New York may also include its 2014 first-round pick.

The Bulls appear to be unwilling to offer Joakim Noah, proposing instead a deal centered around Luol Deng, Taj Gibson and a first-round pick.

Contrary to a recent report, the Rockets are not making Kevin Martin available in their bid to acquire Anthony.

I am not posting this because of the point of the article. Clearly...we dont know what's true...who Melo would sign with....who is ranked where. We know all of this is the stuff that sells papers.

But I want to deal with the supposed ideas of what the Knicks or Bulls would deal.

If this is true...doesnt it say it all? We sit here yacking about what we should or would give up...and look at these suppsed trade packages!!! The Bulls couldnt GIVE Deng away this summer the way they did with Hinrich. His contract per his talent is awful. And yet...they would walk away from giving up Noah? A role playing big man who will be getting paid shortly...and who wont be much better than he is right now? Half a season of some strong rebound numbers...so instead Melo is worth a bad contract in Deng and Taj Gibson a LESSER role playing big man? And they would balk at more?

Knicks dont have a pick until 2014 they can deal...and would balk at offering up both Randolph and Gallo????

If all of this is true but Melo DOES have us on a short list of teams he would go to...then there is absolutely no need to include Favors or Brook in the deal. NONE. Devin, Twill, and a pair of draft picks plus expiring contracts....beats those offers hands down. Hell, Troy, Twill, James and a pair of picks beats them.

Pay atention King. Dont get soaked. The less you give up...the more atractive you look to Melo to consider us for an extension.

[enetric]

So that's how people get such a high post count...

Actually most get it with posts like you just made. One random line about absolutely nothing. Usually its because they know nothing. Feel free to contribute something to a basketball conversation. Or are you to busy watching Days Of Our Lives right now. Women..

Wow, dude... I'm not even going to get into how deliciously ironic your post is... I was joking with you. Lighten up.

Did you just use the words, "deliciously ironic"? Did you stand over a giant cauldron wringing your hands together as you came up with that? Or was it one of those bizarre villains in those soaps you are obviously addicted to? Listen leave the conversation to the guys... would ya? Thanks girlie...we appreciate it.

[enetric]

The downside of Melo's contract is being overstated by Eneretic. I know my cap very well actually. So here's why I think even overpaying Melo is worth it.
1) You're just not going to get a better player in the next few years other than Paul.(and Anthony could help lure him)
2) if your cap number is over $52mil.(within $6mil. of the cap) then you're buying power is the same. You would have the MLE to offer to outside players. Carmelo wouldn't start adding to buying power until after his 2011-2012 salary dips below about $16mil. Basically, if his salary is $12mil. you could offer $10mil. to a FA.

3)2011 is the last summer before Brook will get a new contract/extension, so it's probably the last chance to add an impact FA using cap space anyway.

4)You're looking at a choice between Carmelo and an MLE player vs. Favors, draft pick(s) and Free Agent X. The decision really hinges on who you think Free Agent X will be. I just don't think the options this summer are too appealing other than Melo.

5) As for 2012 and beyond, Paul will probably be in this same situation come next year. That's why I think swapping Harris sometime this season (hopefully when his value is highest) for a veteran PG like Andre Miller or Chauncey Billups +draft pick would be ideal. This would give NJ an expiring and asset to swap for Paul if he starts to look elsewhere.

THis is just a mish mash of nonsense. Dont say wth authority you know what you are talking about and then prove you dont.

First off we are in line to have an easy 20mil in salary cap space this summer. Whether we use it or not...we are not looking at Melo or an MLE...so shut up if you arent going to do your homework.

Next...who in their right mind deliberartely gives away a 27 year old top 10 NBA PG to turn him into a 34 year old expiring contract and acts like THAT is the prime key to landing someone else superstar?!!! I would deal Harris...no problem. And I would take back Billups in a deal with Melo if it were possible to keep a prospect out of the deal like Favors because it gave them added cap relief. But to say...hey lets TARGET THAT deal after we give up our best prospects in the Melo deal because NO would love to have 35 year old Billups next season over say Favors in a package. Or Devin in a package. Nonsense.

As for Brooks 2012 extension...so that means we have 2 years to make moves. And you propose that our 12 win team gut its best assets to commit cap at all cost for 22mil to one guy...which will insure nothing but MLE's after that. It projects out as a....35-40 wins and at best one round and out of the playoffs. That of course means medicore picks. Now is it truly our last chance to add a star? And is this star at 22mil, all our cap flexibility, a huge dent in our youth movement worth it? Well, timing wise...what's the rush? Is that building a contending team? You didnt make it easier to get Paul ifwe overpay for Melo with trade assets and available cap room. You made it harder. When Paul is a free agent in 2012...and Brook is up for extension...would we have the cap space as Melo enters a year looking like 25 mil on the books?

Maybe you didnt notice the team the Heat put together...but I will tell you what...there is NO RUSH here. Loaded with 19-23 year olds...we could take the next few years to develop and continue slow building...and if the opportunity arises signs a big free agent. We have that much flexibility and that much time. Its a superstars league. No question. But the best way to go get them? DRAFT THEM with your top 5 pick. Everyone loves what the Thunder did but no one wants to be patient enough to do it. That's a nice stockpile of top draft talent all together.

Paying that much of your cap to one player is all well and fine when it is ON TOP of other key pieces. You hace Pierce, Allen, and Rondo....and you can add KG to the mix? You do it. You have Dwight Howard and bunch of quality guys who fill their roles....and you think overpaying Rashard Lewis takes you to contender level? It doesnt cost you core players....JUST the cash? OK. Bad trade long term...but short term Its the big piece ON TOP of what you have. But...add the big piece first...PAY HIM the big bucks...anf you are KG's Twolves for the next 5-6 years on your way back to being a terrible team when you cant add more. The big piece for big bucks without enough around him doesnt work in the NBA with the way the cap is structured. There is a timing for these things. THis isnt baseball where you say...you HAVE to get that guy...at all costs fix it next summer. Each move blocks the next set of moves. Melo is a very good player. Not top 10...but top 20, maybe top 15. But is he worth 40% of your cap? Hell no! And I say that as a fan. A die hard CUSE fan.

In a world where Lebron, Wade, Paul, Bosh all make around 14mil...22mil is absurd. Especially if its at the expense of so many supporting pieces. I want the guy if like the Nix or Bulls...we can say...NAH...not giving up THESE guys. And THESE guys for me are Brook and Favors. I would work with just about any other combo. Take back an added contract....use other prospects, send out Devin and or Troy...fine. But not Favors...not Brook. Regardless of how good they may or not become...they are our assets to either help us on the court...or in another deal. Deal either...and we will move to the middle...the worst place in the NBA...and die there. THE END of the rebuild.

Not interested. Rather grab top lotto talent and slow grow my own team of the next Portland or Thunder...or just one Melo, Paul, Lebron, Durant, Wade, Bosh under a 5 year rookie contract window. Its smarter longer lasting....better upside solution. And as far as how much time there is to trade for someone big?

When you have the most assets in the league...you will get into every trade conversation. And in the NBA...wait 5 minutes someone else becomes available.

[jerseyjac]

Melo Smello, some fans get so fixiated with names...if you get that excited over this guy you havent been watching the playoffs and you're a fanboy...he's not a top 10 player, easy top 20, probably top 15...I'm a fan as E is with his roots...others have said it here, there is no denying what he does good, but lets be realistic with where he puts us after the trade if we are giving up Favors/Brook...and for the record again, I'm not against bringing Melo here but it has to be for the right price...I have no problem letting him walk elsewhere, with a smile on my face, saying good luck to you sir...

The consensus on this forum is to have patience and not force a trade here...We are looking to build a championship team and we have a vision of how thats done right...I for one, a long time ago, gave in and want to become OKC or utilize the draft like Portland did...but honestly as much as its a star league, we know the teams who have the stars and fall short every year...when you look at these teams, they failed to put together a true championship team...

On the other hand the Nets have a chance to build something here, a championship team that has the talent across the board to compete, challenge and beat the best in this league....

Bottom line, dont overpay, if someone else is willing to, let them...most likley, at best it makes them a top 5-6 team in the NBA, falling short of NBA title...We already lived that scenario here with the Nets, twice during the Kidd era...I want to go all in have a legitimate chance of winning a title, not HOPING we can pull it off again with a big name scorer...

[NyCeEvO]

Hey guys, Nets Beat writer Fred Kerber sheds some light on the Melo situation.

Nets cautious about Carmelo deal
By FRED KERBER

You might want to harness all that enthusiasm about Carmelo Anthony coming to the Nets.

At least for now.

Yes, the Nets and Nuggets have held discussions regarding the possibility of a deal for Anthony through a sign and trade, but there is nothing on the table, nothing imminent. Any possible deal is, at best, in the embryonic stage.

"There haven't been any names discussed," said one Western Conference source with knowledge of the situation.

The Nets, certainly, are not going to get all chatty about where the talks have led.

"I give my standard line that I don't comment on any trade rumors," Nets general manager Billy King said.

The Nets will do nothing without Anthony's name already on an extension. He has rebuffed a three-year, $65 million offer that has been on Denver's table for weeks. Plus, an ESPN report yesterday suggested no assurances have been given that Anthony would re-up to facilitate a sign-and-trade.

With Anthony able to be a free agent after the season, the Nets simply are not going to rent a player for a huge price tag. If it ever gets to free agency, the Knicks will stand as good a chance as any of landing him.

That the Nets are seen in many circles as the current favorites or frontrunners for the 26-year-old star is a result of logic, speculation and circumstance. The Nets themselves seem more cautious than optimistic.

"The Nets have the pieces the Nuggets would want so, yes, I do think they have a good chance [of getting him]," said one opposing executive, who like everybody else in the league is keeping a close eye on what transpires in Denver.

Rarely are star-for-star trades made. Teams dealing stars usually are rebuilding. And the Nuggets, who still have hope of retaining Anthony, see the Nets holding exactly what they want should they come to the realization they must move their star.

Denver would want young talent. Enter Nets power forward Derrick Favors, 19, the third pick in June's draft. The Nuggets would want draft picks. The Nets have 10 over the next three years. The Nuggets would want expiring contracts, which the Nets also can accommodate, starting with Troy Murphy, who gets $11.9 million in this, his last year.

One report had the Nets agreeing to deal Favors, Murphy and Kris Humphries. Add them together and get roughly $19 million ($3.2 for Humphries, $4.1 for Favors) and that would cover Anthony's pay.

Again, sources insisted names have not been discussed. And figure the Nuggets aren't into collecting power forwards. It could, though, lead to a three-team deal.

The Nuggets, according to multiple sources, want to send Anthony to the Eastern Conference if they trade him, again leading to speculation favoring the Nets, who expect to be in Brooklyn in two years.

The Knicks may be Anthony's preferred spot, but Chicago and New Jersey are also in the mix, both seemingly acceptable for Anthony and La La Vasquez, his television personality wife.

The Bulls were considered solid contenders but Chicago's reluctance to include Joakim Noah in any deal is a deterrent. The Knicks don't have the picks needed to deal.

[Star-Lord]

Did you just use the words, "deliciously ironic"? Did you stand over a giant cauldron wringing your hands together as you came up with that? Or was it one of those bizarre villains in those soaps you are obviously addicted to? Listen leave the conversation to guys... would ya? Thanks girlie...we appreciate it.

I suppose some of us use a little more flair in our vernacular than others. I fail to see how that can be viewed as a bad thing...

What's with all the misogynistic insults? Are we ten years old all of a sudden? Are we stuck in the 1950's? Or do we just not have the best history with the fairer sex, thus leaving us more than a little bitter? Either way, I'm sure you can come up with better material than that. Try Again. Or, take my advice and lighten up, then let it go... Unless you like making yourself look continuously worse. I'm gonna go take my girlfriend to the beach, so I'll be back later to check up on you and see how you did.




Funny thing is, I actually think (thought) you are (were) one of the more level headed, better posters on the entire site... My mistake.

[NOOB77]

I saw this stat on the Bulls board this morning. I thought it was pretty cool. For those who question if Melo is efficient or not.

Since 1980, there have been 29 seasons by players under the age of 25 to have a usage above 30 and TS% above .540. Carmelo did it 4 times, Lebron 5, MJ & Kobe 3 times. Not a lot of players have been as efficient on such a large volume as Melo has at such a young age. Iverson he is not.