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Carmelo Anthony Thread (Merging)

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Re: Melo to Nets??? (UPDATE: Deal In Place, Not Finalized) 

Post#421 » by kmsmith5 » Sat Sep 25, 2010 5:10 am

jman3134 wrote:kmsmith,

Whether or not Chris Paul demands a trade is really questionable at best. Recent reports suggest that he is happy in New Orleans.


I believe that the Nets are putting themselves in the best position to win by acquiring Melo. He may be able to lead a team to the playoffs in the East almost single handedly. That is the kind of talent Melo possesses.

The Nets have some quality pieces in place who may be able to stick it out with the team in the longrun. I really like Outlaw as a prime candidate for a breakout season. Damion James should have a surprise season as well.


Speculating on ANY other star player is questionable at best. At some point Paul and Dwill are going to have to decide, and if Melo is on the Knicks with Amare it will be a no brainer.
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Re: Melo to Nets??? 

Post#422 » by enetric » Sat Sep 25, 2010 5:16 am

Revolutionistt wrote:
enetric wrote:
Rich Rane wrote:I like Melo too and would love to see him live at home games, but if the trade-off is 1st-2nd round exits year after year (which I honestly think this gets us) and watching MLE guys to Miami or Orlando and top picks being picked elsewhere along with us picking just outside the lottery, it really isn't worth it. The only way I could truly like this 4-team trade is if we get that one other star after to put us over the top to truly contend.



ITS THE ONLY way this trade turns out to be worth it. Otherwise...it flushes the last two years of rebuilding down the drain...and delays the next rebuild for 3-4 years as we compete for 6-8 seeds.

If gys who defend this feel...they are content with that...if they feel...hey I would rather lock in some playoffs and accept that we got no where...that is better than couple more years of losing and a shot at a top 4 seed team for the next 5-6 years to follow...then fine. But I dont hear that.

I hear the dillusion. I hear...ITS MELO!!!! YES!!!! And we have a rich owner...as if there is no cap or no rules about salary matching. I hear...Melo wil just get us this and that..even if this and that are going to be BEYOND difficult to get once you have Melo...BECAUSE of Melo. This doesnt turn us into Boston with KG. It turns us into MINNY with KG...IF we are lucky. And that is before anyone even looks at the landscape. Before they look over and see...OH...MIAMI! Forgot about those guys.

Some fans like to get better and pretend. Its the prtend part that irks me. I am not saying its impossible...but I am saying...HIGHLY IMPROBABLE.


Youre talking about taking a chance on unproven players for 4-5 years of being a terrible team and then fighting for a top 4 spot? How do yo know the Nets will be that good in 4 years? Melo is a super star NOW thats why we need to get him. Rebuilding at the end of the 90s wasnt working either, so what did the Nets do? Thats right, traded for Kidd and INSTANTLY became an elite team. Now Im not saying the Nets will be elite landing Melo alone, but ill take a fighting chance for a playoff berth and making the Nets a legit team again instead of having sub 20 win seasons for 5 more years.



It amazes me how you dont see it. Its not getting the player. ITS WHEN YOU GET HIM that matters.

We got Kidd for Marbury. But we had...a #1 pick in year two, a former #2 pick a few years in...We turned the #7 pick into three guys....and we were on our way.

And you know what? Kidd wasnt making 40% of our cap when we got him. What I do know is..you string together a few top lottery picks? You have a great chance of having a nucleus of all stars making COMBINED less than what Melo gets. I am talking Favors, Brook and two more...and there goes Twill too...rook contracts. Then you go shopping. THEN you trade for or sign with all that cap room...AND THEN...when those contracts are up...PROKY'S money matters. Because NOW...we are capped out with our own guys up for free agency and an OWNER wiling tto pay to go way over.

Cap out the team first without the pieces...and that's that.

And I was not talking about 5 more years. I am talking about two more.

And one other thing? Your logic...about doing it NOW...and throwing it all away...with limitted leverage? Yo know who said that? Nix fans when they got Curry andf Crawford. And Marbury. And Francis. And Zach...and so on and on....

And you know what? The STILL didnt win. 10 years and counting.....

Be careful what you wish for. We absolutely HAVE to follow this up with a lopsided trade in our favor talent wise. If not...it will be going no where.

And you wont admit it. You will defend it a few years later and say...at least we tried. And I will laugh and say...no we didnt. We took the easy way out...and I could see where it was going ahead of time. Only the big follow up trade that alludes most teams can save this move.
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Re: Melo to Nets??? (UPDATE: Deal In Place, Not Finalized) 

Post#423 » by mikhailjordan » Sat Sep 25, 2010 5:18 am

Please don't ever compare Carmelo to the players the Knicks acquired ever again. I've been holding my tongue but at this point in time I am insulted by some of the posts in this thread.

Vacuum logic works in a vacuum but the real world is not a vacuum.
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Re: Melo to Nets??? (UPDATE: Deal In Place, Not Finalized) 

Post#424 » by enetric » Sat Sep 25, 2010 5:18 am

mikhailjordan wrote:E I love you like I love Sebastian Telfair but STFU ;-)

Avery can lie to me and say I'll be a starter if the Nets get Carmelo.

Also if you guys get the chance tune into ESPN NY as soon as possible Knicks fans are going crazy about a deal that hasn't even been finalized!

They're trying to argue that Gallo > Melo.



There really do seem to be a lot of men you love.

Not that there is anything wrong with that....
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Re: Melo to Nets??? (UPDATE: Deal In Place, Not Finalized) 

Post#425 » by enetric » Sat Sep 25, 2010 5:20 am

Kerrsed wrote:Just wondering how the NJ fans felt about a Melo/AI re-union. From what i remember they were always cool with each other (even after Iverson was traded). Nets have to be looking for a new PG (as Farmar wont cut it), and i think Iverson could be a possibility.

A.I./Morrow/Melo/Murph/Lopez ????



If it happens...I start rooting for the Knicks. Just killl me now...
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Re: Melo to Nets??? (UPDATE: Deal In Place, Not Finalized) 

Post#426 » by mikhailjordan » Sat Sep 25, 2010 5:21 am

Technically I said I don't love you because I don't love Sebustian Telfail. Long story short, that was my way of saying you can keep dreaming about mikhailjordan in a princess leia outfit grinding up on your jabba the butt, but it's not going to happen E :lol:
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Re: Melo to Nets??? (UPDATE: Deal In Place, Not Finalized) 

Post#427 » by enetric » Sat Sep 25, 2010 5:23 am

vincecarter4pres wrote:Damn this thread exploded since I left for work around 4PM!

This is going to take forever to get through...



I can save you time. 100 posts of me repeating myself...100 combined of people saying the same thing. 100 posts that disagreed....and another 50 that were pure nonsense.

But there is one post by Rich that summed it all up. Just read that one...and you are good. 6 words. 6 perfect words.
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Re: Melo to Nets??? (UPDATE: Deal In Place, Not Finalized) 

Post#428 » by enetric » Sat Sep 25, 2010 5:31 am

kmsmith5 wrote:Ok, the main problems everyone has with this proposed trade are:

1) NJ is giving up too much because NYK and CHI (preferred destinations) cannot offer a better package.

2) It doesn't make NJ a contender.

3) Just let Denver lose him for nothing! those Jerks!

4) Getting Melo doesn't mean other stars will come, and there's no cap space or assets to get one anyway.

First, Randolph will be a monster once he gets minutes. I don't see how TWil or James are even close to Randolph/Gallinari and therefore how NJ's Favors-less offer would beat NYK. I know DEN said they aren't interested in Randolph, but they would and probably have said the same thing about Twill and James.

As for 2 and 3, they both have to do with Chris Paul and the Knicks. If NJ won't offer Favors, they are added to the list that CHI is on right now, meaning they won't offer their top asset and are therefore out of the running. However, the Knicks could get creative and add a 3rd or 4th team and sweeten their deal with Walker or Douglas. Or, Melo could hit free agency where he will head right to MSG, soon followed by Chris Paul. What I'm saying is, acquiring Melo is more important because it cblocks the Knicks.

This is where some will scream #4 above. The reason The next superstar(Paul) will cost less in assets is because he will demand a trade TO BE WITH MELO on the NETS. Think about it, next year Paul may be unhappy and he will want out. He's going to look around the league, and with Rose in place in CHI, have to choose between NJN or NYK. It's going to be a trade not cap space that gets him, all that's needed is expirings and draft picks, because the team he picks will be where he will agree to an extension.



Nix only offering ONE of Gallo or Randolph and NO picks. And the monster tag is gone for Randolph after last season. The shine is OFF that apple. Devin/James/Twill/2 picks one being GSW...BEATS Gallo/Curry or Randolph Curry.

As for Paul...whew. We wont have what it takes to get Paul next year by trade. We wont have expiring or draft picks due to THIS trade. Its THIS year with Troy's contract or not happening and NO has no pressure to do it. Since we gave so many of our prime assets for Melo...why again do we get Paul? Next year sure. Not this year. And again...how do we do it next year?

Knicks? Paul, Melo and Amare? Please by all means do the cap math and tell me how that happens.
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Re: Melo to Nets??? 

Post#429 » by vincecarter4pres » Sat Sep 25, 2010 5:31 am

enetric wrote:OK...so now tell me how we get one? Yu just gave one away and our top trade chip...and two other valuable ones. Our biggest free agent signing is now a back up. NOW WHAT?

And Melo has proven that he can be the best player on a contending team with 83 mil in payroll...and STILL fall short. You think our roser already maxed out comes close to those Denver teams?

And again...what is the realistic goal here? Maybe I am just old. I can recall how it felt when the Nets "just made" the playoffs in the DC era. It felt great. Then again in the Cassell/KVH/Jason Williams years. AGAIN...FELT GREAT. And that was because I watched them lose for most of a decade in and around that. But then...Thorn. And Kidd. And RJ. And Kmart. And TWO NBA finals. And then VC...and in total...6 years of playoffs...5 of them getting past round 1...or was it four? And since then...two losing seasons. TWO. Following the 6 best years. Maybe there are two many posters here...who dont remember.

Perhaps you need that feeling I had when I was much younger from the DC Nets. That...WE MADE IT!

But not me. I am old. I have seen the promise land. I saw what it means to get to the finals. To be the FAVORITE in several playoff series...and to NOT CHOKE ONCE. To beat the lesser team over and over. I WANT THAT. And if losing a little bit more gives me a better shot at that? Then I can give up the...WE JUST MADE it feeling.

But like I said. I am old. Patience comes with age...but it also means I have strng memories to sustain me. Maybe the younger posters just cant do that? Maybe you just NEED that...WE MADE IT feeling so bad...that you cant deal with tomorrow until it comes.

And I want to be wrong. I want to find out that we can make a major follow up trade. Or that Melo can live up to all his talent and grow even more. That him and Brook and some nice role guys are Kobe and Pau. Although I dont see Odom and Bynum. Sure...I like Troy...and that should help.

But? I also see that Heat team. And I see a Magic and Hawks team that are better. I see other young teams that could pass us with more flexibility going forward.

I guess I just want MORE...and I am willing to wait for it....save my pennies.

Man I swore I was going to read through this whole thread without quoting or posting a reply, but this post is pretty much the epitome of my feelings on the whole thing right now.

Now I have to return to page 26(or am I on 27 now? I started on 14 which was the page I left off on when I went to work this afternoon.)...
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Re: Melo to Nets??? (UPDATE: Deal In Place, Not Finalized) 

Post#430 » by SpeedyG » Sat Sep 25, 2010 5:36 am

I think us "old" posters just need to find us a team with a better GM and a better direction...
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Re: Melo to Nets??? (UPDATE: Deal In Place, Not Finalized) 

Post#431 » by enetric » Sat Sep 25, 2010 5:40 am

Netaman wrote:Brook doesn't equal all of the pieces you mentioned but surely you will agree with 2 things.

1- Brook fulfills the the role of "star on a reasonable contract". And if he doesn't, we all have to agree he is very close.

2- Carmelo is a lot closer in importance to the acquisition of KG. He is far more valuable then Ray Allen was at the time. Especially factoring in age.

If you accept those 2 points then the comparison is a lot easier to make. We are the Celtics hoping for a Ray Allen type trade and/or the breakout of one of TWill, Morrow, James, Farmar, Outlaw.

I personally don't believe either of those possibilities to be long shots, especially in the context of the time, which we will have a fair amount of since Lopez is 22 and Melo is 26.

The Celtics got Ray Allen for Jeff Green (#5), Wally (with 2 years on his contract), and Delonte West. I believe we have enough assets to put together that level trade. Especially if the plan is to simply get a stop gap (Parker or Billups?) until Paul or Deron are available. Obviously all of this stuff is conjecture until a) the CBA gets negotiated and b) Lopez gets his $ - point is while it sucks to lose both Favors and Harris, we are going to have assets.


You still arent getting it. First Melo is no KG. he will get paid like him...but not KG. Next...ITS TIMING. How was Minny with KG in his prime? Why was older KG on Boston a better team than Minny? Because Minny had no picks, no cap space and limitted trade assets which is what we will have post trade for Melo. For 7 years...Minny couldnt get any better than they were. KG was their saint and his contract and lack of assets were there curse. Perfectly MEDIOCRE.

How do you get a Ray Allen? Do you know what Allen cost them? It cost them a #5 draft pick straight up. Where are we getting that? And you do realize we have to salary match.


Look I said it all along. The only way this trade works out...is we have to get another superstar. And by paying FAR MORE than the market value for Melo...and then PAYING him far more than HIS value salary wise....it is going ot be BEYOND difficult. It is the Knicks...NOT Boston. Our BEST chance of doing all of this? Trade Troy+ before the trade deadline for some veteran being dumped.

Thats the best shot. Do that? And sure...we can have the pleasure of being the Heat's tune up series before they win the title...IF we get past Orlando, Atlanta and the Celtics for whatever time they have left. And that's of course until some other team in the EC lands that stud in the draft we took ourselves out of the running for. Say Wall is a stud...and for the next two years...they land a couple more? That window we have will look pretty weak.
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Re: Melo to Nets??? 

Post#432 » by enetric » Sat Sep 25, 2010 5:42 am

kmsmith5 wrote:
enetric wrote:
Basileus777 wrote:The management is thinking about building for 2012 when they move to Brooklyn. Waiting 4 years to wait until the Heat start to fade isn't really an option. You can't ignore the business and marketing aspect here.



And there it is. NIX PLANNING. DONT PLAN TO BUILD A WINNER. PLAN TO BE A TICKET SELLER.


Do you like what the Knicks have been doing this last decade? Good plan? Whoever is there...GO ALL in until you dont have the flexibility?

IN 2012...two years into Melo's 4 years...capped out...Brook up for an extension...if we arent a contending team..but instead a low seed or a just miss the playoffs team...then what?

Or, take these TWO years in Newark...to build right. Tell you what. What if Favors IS all that?

And in the next two drafts we landed two more top 5 picks? And we had Brook, and Devin and Twill.

You think...we couldnt make a HUGE splash for Brooklyn and be terrifc for a LOOOOOOONG time?

if 4 years from now...two years into Brooklyn we are rebuilding again...then what?


There's just as much risk, if not more, in hoping draft picks pan out. Let's take the guy who already panned out.



Not true. The best players in the NBA...the vast majority of the elite...were taken with top 5 picks. And those teams had a 4 year window of rook contracts. Paying those guys far below their talent value...which means also having cap space. Teams that overpay for ONE big name before they can support him? And give away the piece to get better later? They have a LOOOOOOOONG history of perfectly medicore.
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Re: Melo to Nets??? (UPDATE: Deal In Place, Not Finalized) 

Post#433 » by enetric » Sat Sep 25, 2010 5:43 am

mikhailjordan wrote:In 2 years if the Nets are a capped out team and suck you move a 28 year old Melo for some good young players and try again... Not sure what's so hard to comprehend about that...



I used to think you had a clue. More and more...I am starting to realize...you really dont.

The one saving grace to this is if we make the monster follow up deal. That salary...the timing...the cost? Rediculous.
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Re: Melo to Nets??? 

Post#434 » by kmsmith5 » Sat Sep 25, 2010 5:45 am

enetric wrote:

It amazes me how you dont see it. Its not getting the player. ITS WHEN YOU GET HIM that matters.

We got Kidd for Marbury. But we had...a #1 pick in year two, a former #2 pick a few years in...We turned the #7 pick into three guys....and we were on our way.

And you know what? Kidd wasnt making 40% of our cap when we got him. What I do know is..you string together a few top lottery picks? You have a great chance of having a nucleus of all stars making COMBINED less than what Melo gets. I am talking Favors, Brook and two more...and there goes Twill too...rook contracts. Then you go shopping. THEN you trade for or sign with all that cap room...AND THEN...when those contracts are up...PROKY'S money matters. Because NOW...we are capped out with our own guys up for free agency and an OWNER wiling tto pay to go way over.

Cap out the team first without the pieces...and that's that.

And I was not talking about 5 more years. I am talking about two more.

And one other thing? Your logic...about doing it NOW...and throwing it all away...with limitted leverage? Yo know who said that? Nix fans when they got Curry andf Crawford. And Marbury. And Francis. And Zach...and so on and on....

And you know what? The STILL didnt win. 10 years and counting.....

Be careful what you wish for. We absolutely HAVE to follow this up with a lopsided trade in our favor talent wise. If not...it will be going no where.

And you wont admit it. You will defend it a few years later and say...at least we tried. And I will laugh and say...no we didnt. We took the easy way out...and I could see where it was going ahead of time. Only the big follow up trade that alludes most teams can save this move.


If the rumors are true, then NJ will still have all of it's own picks. The GSW pick might not even be conveyed this year, or converted into 2 2nd rounders eventually. There's still flexibility with Murphy's expiring or about $10mil. in cap space if the cap remains at $58mil.. There's no one worthy of a max deal this summer anyway, so the only difference is Favors and the draft position for upcoming years. So what you're telling me is you'd rather tank and get top 5 picks? hope Favors is a star? hope for another last-place season(s)? hope the ping pong balls land the right way? hope the right draft choice is made? Because that strategy rarely works. You conveniently picked POR and OKC as examples of how to do it, but what about the Clippers? what about the Wolves? what about the Grizzlies? All of the worst teams in the league have been drafting high for years, and where has it gotten them?
You just want to complain that you got a star player by pointing out his flaws, saying his contract will cripple the team, and claim that they gave up too much. ANY team would take Melo right now for 22mil./yr. as long as the owner could afford it. You know why? because the NBA has a soft cap and good players can be traded for expiring contracts. Even though it's not the case for the Nets, being over the cap isn't the end of the world.
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Re: Melo to Nets??? 

Post#435 » by vincecarter4pres » Sat Sep 25, 2010 5:46 am

enetric wrote:
Basileus777 wrote:The management is thinking about building for 2012 when they move to Brooklyn. Waiting 4 years to wait until the Heat start to fade isn't really an option. You can't ignore the business and marketing aspect here.



And there it is. NIX PLANNING. DONT PLAN TO BUILD A WINNER. PLAN TO BE A TICKET SELLER.


Do you like what the Knicks have been doing this last decade? Good plan? Whoever is there...GO ALL in until you dont have the flexibility?

IN 2012...two years into Melo's 4 years...capped out...Brook up for an extension...if we arent a contending team..but instead a low seed or a just miss the playoffs team...then what?

Or, take these TWO years in Newark...to build right. Tell you what. What if Favors IS all that?

And in the next two drafts we landed two more top 5 picks? And we had Brook, and Devin and Twill.

You think...we couldnt make a HUGE splash for Brooklyn and be terrifc for a LOOOOOOONG time?

if 4 years from now...two years into Brooklyn we are rebuilding again...then what?

I have to stop and quote this one too.
I don't know if this got resolved or not afterwords because I am quoting right where I am reading it, but E I think you're taking him out of context and ignoring the truth in what he's saying.

Basileus doesn't necessarily agree with the angle he is typing, he is just putting out there the reality of the situation and you would have to be naive to deny it.

It's obvious that as much as Proky wants to win himself due to pride and his competitive nature, as well as the windfall of cash that comes with being the champs, the reality is he is a business man looking to make coin both long term and short and has to sell his brand.

He has to create a fan base, sell tickets and merchandise, sell TV time, sell this team to the NBA market, the fans abroad and especially in Russia and Europe and to steal the spotlight from the grasps of the Knix in the tristate.

It is yet to be seen if he stays true to what seems like BS rhetoric about being better then a top 5 team and it is likely that the all mighty dollar rules his world and is the thing of his obsession.

Getting Melo will turn this team into a marketing powerhouse, there is just no denying that.

In a microcosm, just look at how this thread exploded and more importantly look at how even some of the more reserved posters on this board that have been preaching contender and agreeing with us about the proper way to rebuild, whether slow or through blockbuster trade, have instantly done a complete 360 and are screaming in delight simply because of the excitement of almost acquiring Melo. Sure it's the immediate reaction from the instant gratification and some of that will wear off, especially if we don't make another move and mediocrity is realized, but the fact is you have a guy claiming he just bought season tickets as a direct result of this move and there are an assload of people like him and that's just the tip of the iceberg.

Melo means ESPN, TNT, ABC, NBATV, etc., years before Brooklyn.

Most fans are not die hard such as the likes of us(and by us I mean all of our regulars), most are casual and fair weather and ironically Proky doesn't give a damn about us and is trying to create an entirely new fan base, to hell with the old, in with the new.

It means a lot of dollars and to sheepishly use the old cliche, that makes sense.
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Re: Melo to Nets??? (UPDATE: Deal In Place, Not Finalized) 

Post#436 » by enetric » Sat Sep 25, 2010 5:46 am

jman3134 wrote:kmsmith,

Whether or not Chris Paul demands a trade is really questionable at best. Recent reports suggest that he is happy in New Orleans.


I believe that the Nets are putting themselves in the best position to win by acquiring Melo. He may be able to lead a team to the playoffs in the East almost single handedly. That is the kind of talent Melo possesses.

The Nets have some quality pieces in place who may be able to stick it out with the team in the longrun. I really like Outlaw as a prime candidate for a breakout season. Damion James should have a surprise season as well.



I LIKED Outlaw as a prime candidate this year. But coming off the bench behind Melo? How do you like his chances now?

Sure we can get to the playoffs. Will we play 4 or 5 games against the Heat before its over?
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Re: Melo to Nets??? (UPDATE: Deal In Place, Not Finalized) 

Post#437 » by enetric » Sat Sep 25, 2010 5:47 am

SpeedyG wrote:OK, I CANNOT believe I am saying this, but please, PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, AVERY....talk to Mikhail Prokorov and tell him to veto this idiot of a deal by Billly King....and fire his ass on the spot too.



Where you been Jr? Its been a LONG FREAKIN DAY!
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Re: Melo to Nets??? (UPDATE: Deal In Place, Not Finalized) 

Post#438 » by enetric » Sat Sep 25, 2010 5:50 am

Da_Kidd wrote:Ehhhhh

I'd rather have Anthony Randolph.



WOW! 8 years....it took you to make me laugh? The orignal foe...the original cheerleader....showing a cynical humorous side in a RARE appearence????

Where the F is Rolly, Sharcm and Basketcase? Now I have seen it all...

Good to see you...
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Re: Melo to Nets??? (UPDATE: Deal In Place, Not Finalized) 

Post#439 » by enetric » Sat Sep 25, 2010 5:51 am

kmsmith5 wrote:
jman3134 wrote:kmsmith,

Whether or not Chris Paul demands a trade is really questionable at best. Recent reports suggest that he is happy in New Orleans.


I believe that the Nets are putting themselves in the best position to win by acquiring Melo. He may be able to lead a team to the playoffs in the East almost single handedly. That is the kind of talent Melo possesses.

The Nets have some quality pieces in place who may be able to stick it out with the team in the longrun. I really like Outlaw as a prime candidate for a breakout season. Damion James should have a surprise season as well.


Speculating on ANY other star player is questionable at best. At some point Paul and Dwill are going to have to decide, and if Melo is on the Knicks with Amare it will be a no brainer.



People need to learn how to do cap math.
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Re: Melo to Nets??? (UPDATE: Deal In Place, Not Finalized) 

Post#440 » by enetric » Sat Sep 25, 2010 5:54 am

mikhailjordan wrote:Please don't ever compare Carmelo to the players the Knicks acquired ever again. I've been holding my tongue but at this point in time I am insulted by some of the posts in this thread.

Vacuum logic works in a vacuum but the real world is not a vacuum.



Its not the players...its the direction and the timing. Why does everything need to explained to you over and over????

Just because you get a better player...doesnt mean it not the same type of deal when it costs you much more in assets and TWICE the salary...or close to 40% of your cap...and you now have serious limits how to improve from there.

You have never held your tongue. And ANY kind of logic is better than your complete lack of it.

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