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Offseason Grades

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lilfishi22
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Re: Offseason Grades 

Post#101 » by lilfishi22 » Wed Sep 29, 2010 1:29 am

[quote="RunDogGun] My little theory? How the heck is saying we gained smarter players a theory about smart over talent? I am just saying that smart trumps stupid. Do you not agree? :o Please don't try and put thoughts into my posts. If you want to ask me to clarify something, cool. I never said smart trumps talent. I am just saying we got rid of lower BBIQ, and gained higher BBIQ. I don't even see how that is up for debate. Am I glad we got rid of Amare? Yes, I am. After the last two years of his stupidity, and ego, his all talk, his stupid nicknames and nation wide promotion tour, I am very happy he is off this team. Now will I miss some of his plays? Sure, he was a Sun, and he helped this team succeed. I will tell you that I will miss Lou more than I will miss Amare. [/quote]

So you think there it's better to replace dumb talent and replace it with smart mediocrity? Smart does trump stupid, I agree, but what about talent? Does talent not factor into this at all? Was he not one of the biggest parts of our championship campaign these past 5 seasons? Amare may be dumb as a rock but he got things done. He stepped up during the playoffs and won us games. If it isn't smarts then it's ridiculous talent.

I don't know which Amare you have been watching, but he didn't pass out of the double team, so it would not matter how wide open someone was, if they never got the ball. People are open in our system because Nash forces the issue. His PnRs with Lopez were just as effective as the ones with Amare. Lopez hit his shots last year, it had nothing to do with Amare. It came down to Lopez working hard on his foot work and his shot form. Please don't try and credit Amare with hard work put forth by Lopez. Amare has very little post game, which is what I consider an inside presence.

Lopezs PnR as effective as Amare's? Which Lopez have you been watching? Lopez is a decent option but to say he's just as effective as Amare just blows my mind. And do you really think that the other team throwing the double, stuffing the lanes and putting their best front court defender on Amare not have any effect on Lopez's offensive game? Lopez's hustle has a lot to with his basket, but if defenders actually played defense against him, he would not be shooting 58% again, not unless he develops a post game.

Look, I said who I would trust in crunch time, and Amare isn't a player I would trust, hence the reason I did not include him. Funny how you didn't even touch the Spurs game comment, which is a great example of my point.[code][/code]
I didn't need to touch your one "great" example. I could name other examples where he's missed a pass but that's not the point and besides your example was like 3 seasons ago. The point is that he was a more willing passer *this* past season not that he's a better passer. Last season he would pass out from the high post and establish position in the low post. He would drive in and pass out to baseline shooters like Dudley and LB. He's still not a good passer but I saw a lot of patience in his offensive game.
And honestly, when Amare has a proven ability to finish in traffic and also has one of the highest rates of getting sent to the line where he shots close to 80%. I thought last season he had a good balance between forcing the issue and drawing the fouls and passing out when the double team was coming.

Boris a natural PF? Are you joking around now, or are you just pulling stuff out of your butt? He was playing PG/SG for ATL before we got him. Then when we tried him around the SF position, but we still weren't sure where he would fit. We knew he was a smart player, but not sure of his role in the system, other than maybe a point forward (sounds like someone we just picked up.) That year, he was playing a F/C position the whole time, with no clear positional role. He wasn't playing a strictly post position. In fact, when KT was center, Boris played around elbow in a point forward role. He fit well because he could play within the system. Something I see many of the core players on this squad doing. But again, time will tell. The only time we strictly ran the offense through him, was the last two games of that Spurs series. You remember the one, it was the one where the so-called willing passer had a one to ten assist to turnover ratio.

Everyone knew Diaw was versatile. he had a body of a PF and ATL decided to play him as a guard because of his ball handling and passing skills. He wasn't 6-7 200 lbs. He wasn't just tall, the guy was 6-8 230lb, he had what it takes to play in the post. His rebounding rate and per36 rebounding numbers in ATL were very similar to his numbers during his break out season.

I've always only said that Amare was a more willing passer last season. Didn't say he was always a willing passer.

Here are some facts for you: Hill was not a good three point shooter when he came here. Now he is fairly decent. Childress has not played in our system, and with the players we have. You need to give him some time. Our team doesn't play with distinct roles. We really haven't for about eight years now. When Porter tried to label things, the team did not respond well.

Here are some opinions: Amare is dumber than a box of rocks. This team will be better off without him and his moronic ego. Critics of this squad will be eating crow come January. Many people don't remember how this team played in 2005-06, and therefore try to make stuff up. Shinny things aren't always great. :D


Hill is decent but not in the sense of a 3PT shooter decent. He hits open shots when he's left open but he's not a 3PT shooter. He's just not a guy you can count on being a 3PT threat. There's a reason why defenders don't run him off the 3PT line.

Look there could be surprises this season, I'm not arguing that, but you seem to discount how big Amare was for our system, in SSOL and in the Gentry era. If you really believe in addition by subtraction then you believe we'll have a better record than last season and go deeper in the playoffs?
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Re: Offseason Grades 

Post#102 » by RunDogGun » Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:29 am

lilfishi22 wrote:So you think there it's better to replace dumb talent and replace it with smart mediocrity? Smart does trump stupid, I agree, but what about talent? Does talent not factor into this at all? Was he not one of the biggest parts of our championship campaign these past 5 seasons? Amare may be dumb as a rock but he got things done. He stepped up during the playoffs and won us games. If it isn't smarts then it's ridiculous talent.


Lopezs PnR as effective as Amare's? Which Lopez have you been watching? Lopez is a decent option but to say he's just as effective as Amare just blows my mind. And do you really think that the other team throwing the double, stuffing the lanes and putting their best front court defender on Amare not have any effect on Lopez's offensive game? Lopez's hustle has a lot to with his basket, but if defenders actually played defense against him, he would not be shooting 58% again, not unless he develops a post game.


I didn't need to touch your one "great" example. I could name other examples where he's missed a pass but that's not the point and besides your example was like 3 seasons ago. The point is that he was a more willing passer *this* past season not that he's a better passer. Last season he would pass out from the high post and establish position in the low post. He would drive in and pass out to baseline shooters like Dudley and LB. He's still not a good passer but I saw a lot of patience in his offensive game.
And honestly, when Amare has a proven ability to finish in traffic and also has one of the highest rates of getting sent to the line where he shots close to 80%. I thought last season he had a good balance between forcing the issue and drawing the fouls and passing out when the double team was coming.


Everyone knew Diaw was versatile. he had a body of a PF and ATL decided to play him as a guard because of his ball handling and passing skills. He wasn't 6-7 200 lbs. He wasn't just tall, the guy was 6-8 230lb, he had what it takes to play in the post. His rebounding rate and per36 rebounding numbers in ATL were very similar to his numbers during his break out season.

I've always only said that Amare was a more willing passer last season. Didn't say he was always a willing passer.



Hill is decent but not in the sense of a 3PT shooter decent. He hits open shots when he's left open but he's not a 3PT shooter. He's just not a guy you can count on being a 3PT threat. There's a reason why defenders don't run him off the 3PT line.

Look there could be surprises this season, I'm not arguing that, but you seem to discount how big Amare was for our system, in SSOL and in the Gentry era. If you really believe in addition by subtraction then you believe we'll have a better record than last season and go deeper in the playoffs?


I don't understand your attachment to saying Amare was a more willing passer. The games I saw last year, he was actually quite reluctant to pass, hence missing wide open cutters. He seemed like he was afraid to either turn the ball over with his poor post passing, or he felt he could do it all by himself. His drop of 50% in assists reflects this reluctance. It in no way supports your comment. It negates it. You don't have any data to back up your claim, other than your opinion.

I really don't want to argue this anymore. You clearly saw different games where Amare's one assist average shows a more willing passer. And I saw and feel the opposite. I saw where he didn't pass to a wide open cutter. I can't believe I will have to come up with video to show you. Meh! The reason it was a great example was it showed that in crunch time Amare won't make the smart choice. But I guess your no example trumps my example, right? :roll:

And no, we didn't know what to do with Boris. It seemed like we wanted to do the same thing ATL did, because we lacked a good replacement for Nash. Only after the clueless Amare was removed from the equation, did we see an emergence of Boris. Then after KT went down, we saw another side of Boris. I don't believe anyone knew what Boris would do that year. Versatile? Yes, but so is Hedo.

Hill went from a 31.6% three point shooter in his first two years with us, to a 43.8% three point shooter last year. He just figured out his position and his best spots to be successful. He is the type of player that passes his knowledge to his fellow players. I don't see why Childress won't learn from Hill. Dudley sure did, increasing his percentage greatly. Fine, another opinion argument where I have an open mind to the new players, because of things done by the core players. But if you feel that he won't be a threat, cool. Again time will tell. If your hunch is correct, I will admit my optimism was off. But I'll expect the same if I am right.

But I do want to know why people leave Hill wide open to shoot the three. And if it is anything but sheer stupidity, I will laugh. The man shot almost 44% from there. Why the heck wouldn't you run at him? Or that is right, it is because he is just as crafty at making a play happen driving towards the basket. Either way he has improved at his choices. It is something smart players do. :wink:

I still can't believe you don't credit Lopez shots and shot choices to anyone but Lopez himself, Nash, or the coaching staff. His conversions on PnRs with Nash were extremely high, and it had nothing, absolutely nothing to do with Amare. Amare can't even teach himself to boxout, or take away position. He couldn't even learn it from KT. Lopez did all that hard work himself along with the coaching staff, not the ego god himself. Were you implying that Lopez was wide open on every shot he took? Or that Amare was doubled on every play leaving Lopez open? How about when Lopez was matched with Frye or Lou? Was maybe Amare channeling spirits to help Lopez while Amare was on the bench? :o Thi is getting comical. Maybe there will be a new movie, "Amare Potter and the Sorcerer's Bag of Dumb Stones". But I kid. :D

Again, I am looking forward to seeing a more fluid team, that will have smarter options. Time will tell if my thoughts are correct.
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Re: Offseason Grades 

Post#103 » by WTFsunsFTW » Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:36 am

Have you guys forgotten we are on the internets? no one has the attention span to follow this banter. Go rent a room.
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Re: Offseason Grades 

Post#104 » by RunDogGun » Wed Sep 29, 2010 7:15 am

WTFsunsFTW wrote:Have you guys forgotten we are on the internets? no one has the attention span to follow this banter. Go rent a room.


Sorry, I'll dumb it down next time. :D
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Re: Offseason Grades 

Post#105 » by lilfishi22 » Wed Sep 29, 2010 8:07 am

RunDogGun wrote:Time will tell if my thoughts are correct.


As will mine.

I just want to add one more comment about Diaw which is related to us now. Diaw was versatile enough to play PG/SG for ATL but his size and skills also allowed him to play and create from the post. I'm not saying he completely replaced Amare but he had the type of versatile inside/outside game that allowed us to be without Amare's inside presence. This team right now, has no one who can create or play in the post consistently, and I'm not even comparing our players to Amare and Diaw right now. I'm just pointing out that those "easy" high % buckets close to the rim, will be much, much harder get now that we're almost entirely a team of shooters. Lopez could be some sort of threat, but as of right now, his offensive arsenal is almost completely predicated on his ability to grab the offensive board (which I gave him credit for) and any decent defensive big man has what it takes to stop him on the post up.

WTFsunsFTW wrote:Have you guys forgotten we are on the internets? no one has the attention span to follow this banter. Go rent a room.


I'm not sure if you're aware, but there's a side bar on your internet browser used for scrolling up and down the page. If the amount of words is too overwhelming for you, I suggest you just scroll down and move on.
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Re: Offseason Grades 

Post#106 » by BurningHeart » Wed Sep 29, 2010 8:30 am

One of the things that bother me the most is the notion that Nash made Amare. Yes, Nash makes everyone BETTER, but lest we forget Amare Stoudemire was WELL on his way to being a star before Nash got here in 2004.
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Re: Offseason Grades 

Post#107 » by RunDogGun » Wed Sep 29, 2010 3:17 pm

Lilfish, my point about Diaw was, we were not aware of the extent he would be able to step things up. When he was asked to play any spot, he did his best in 2005-06. But if you watch the film, he didn't really do what he did in those last two games against the Spurs when we still had Shaq. We knew he was versatile.

Hedo is very similar in versatility. Plus we have witnessed that if he has to play center, he can grab 19 boards. To me it shows a level that Hedo can rise to, which is much greater than the level we knew of Boris at this time in 2005. Do you agree that we know more of Hedo right now, than we knew of Boris before the season started? Plus like many have speculated, Hedo will not spend all of his time at the four. The best part about our system is we can sub many guys in and out of the line up with little regard to actual position, while still being successful. I still like our chances.
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Re: Offseason Grades 

Post#108 » by RunDogGun » Wed Sep 29, 2010 3:39 pm

BurningHeart wrote:One of the things that bother me the most is the notion that Nash made Amare. Yes, Nash makes everyone BETTER, but lest we forget Amare Stoudemire was WELL on his way to being a star before Nash got here in 2004.


But that was based on athleticism only. That raw athletic ability has been hampered by injuries. With his lack of learning the basics of footwork and position, Amare can not rest on that athleticism anymore. He needs to evolve. It isn't all his fault. He should have gone to college, at least for a year to experience a level of coaching greater than just high school. Where he would just dominate by his sheer raw power. Now I am happy he developed his jumpshot, but he had a whole season (getting paid $13 million) to work on that shot and form. Then he just talked about getting better, but stayed the same.

Bynum is a good example of what to do. Hirer a strengthening coach that can help you with position. Amare was not going to get the level of defense he needs from D'Antoni. And now it is too late for him. He is set in his ways, he knows he can get by on just his athletic ability. It is a bummer, he could have been one of the greatest PFs ever, if he just was smarter about his approach to the game. I was hoping that when KT got here, Amare could fix his problems in foot work and position. But his injury came at a bad time, and I guess he didn't want to study how KT played. He had so many games to learn from KT. He could have picked his brain all year.

Nash made Amare a ton of money, all Amare had to do was catch the ball, and dunk it. Now that his eyesight is hindered a bit, he has been dropping passes that he use to grab. I say without Nash, Amare will drop in many areas. Plus if the complaining rule is followed by the letter, he will have issues just staying on the court.
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Re: Offseason Grades 

Post#109 » by lilfishi22 » Wed Sep 29, 2010 4:41 pm

RunDogGun wrote:Lilfish, my point about Diaw was, we were not aware of the extent he would be able to step things up. When he was asked to play any spot, he did his best in 2005-06. But if you watch the film, he didn't really do what he did in those last two games against the Spurs when we still had Shaq. We knew he was versatile.

Hedo is very similar in versatility. Plus we have witnessed that if he has to play center, he can grab 19 boards. To me it shows a level that Hedo can rise to, which is much greater than the level we knew of Boris at this time in 2005. Do you agree that we know more of Hedo right now, than we knew of Boris before the season started? Plus like many have speculated, Hedo will not spend all of his time at the four. The best part about our system is we can sub many guys in and out of the line up with little regard to actual position, while still being successful. I still like our chances.


I like my chances with someone who can actually get it done around the rim than adding shooters to a team already full of shooters. You live by the jumper, you die by the jumper.

Versatility is great, but like I've mentioned before, when I see this team, I see a jack-of-all-trades team with great shooters. No great team has ever gone deep in the playoffs without at least a decent low post threat. Our lack of players who can get it done down low really does worry me. That versatility actually worries me more than it gives me comfort quite honestly. And the point with Hedo grabbing 19 rebounds is just one great rebounding example, but even Amare has grabbed 20rpg's before. But neither Hedo nor Warrick nor Lawal really solves any of the major problems we've seen the past few season and with Amare gone, the missing inside scoring just adds to the list of problems.

I think there are enough bad to average teams which we can just flat out beat with our uptempo and excellent shooting game, but when it matters (playoffs) we're going to seriously miss those easy high % buckets and foul drawing we got from Amare. Please tell me that, at the very least, you understand my concerns.
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Re: Offseason Grades 

Post#110 » by RunDogGun » Wed Sep 29, 2010 5:32 pm

lilfishi22 wrote:
I like my chances with someone who can actually get it done around the rim than adding shooters to a team already full of shooters. You live by the jumper, you die by the jumper.

Versatility is great, but like I've mentioned before, when I see this team, I see a jack-of-all-trades team with great shooters. No great team has ever gone deep in the playoffs without at least a decent low post threat. Our lack of players who can get it done down low really does worry me. That versatility actually worries me more than it gives me comfort quite honestly. And the point with Hedo grabbing 19 rebounds is just one great rebounding example, but even Amare has grabbed 20rpg's before. But neither Hedo nor Warrick nor Lawal really solves any of the major problems we've seen the past few season and with Amare gone, the missing inside scoring just adds to the list of problems.

I think there are enough bad to average teams which we can just flat out beat with our uptempo and excellent shooting game, but when it matters (playoffs) we're going to seriously miss those easy high % buckets and foul drawing we got from Amare. Please tell me that, at the very least, you understand my concerns.


I think you haven't gotten over the fact that Amare is gone. He chose to leave, we made him a good offer. We made moves to better the team. Wait and see. You are either going to embrace this squad, or you will have a season of bad feelings. As for the faith in this team, I guess I just have it more than other fans. A Nash lead team, with smart talented players is something I am fine with.

But you are guessing to our problems, before they have happened. I am implying that they may not be problems at all. Are we going to have issues with boarding at times? sure. We did with Amare as well. Many times Amare had games where he only grabbed three rebounds. But if Hedo can box out better than Amare, and the rest of the team focuses on that, we will overcome that issue as a team.

My point about Hedo was explained in my post, but I'll point it out again: It was a level that he has already achieved when asked to take on the starting center role. Something we hadn't seen from Diaw before he was asked to play that position. Knowing that that level has already been achieved, I have more confidence in him in that area.
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Re: Offseason Grades 

Post#111 » by lilfishi22 » Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:09 pm

I know Amare's gone and I've accepted it already. I accepted that he would be gone even before playoffs started. Whether I embrace this squad or not does not change the fact that we have done nothing to address our old problems.

I do apologize but I still don't understand your point with Hedo grabbing those rebounds while playing the C. Hedo grabbed 19 rebounds one time which also happens to be his career high. In the last 5 seasons he's only had 14 games in which he's grabbed double digit boards. That's 14 in like 323 games. In his 1 breakout season, Diaw had 18 double digit rebounding games when he came to Phoenix after 2 seasons playing as ATL's guard. Unless Hedo strung out like 5-8 games where he averaged 12rpg or 13rpg, that one great rebounding game just doesn't say anything about anything other than that he had *one* great rebounding game. It's an outlier.
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Re: Offseason Grades 

Post#112 » by RunDogGun » Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:35 pm

lilfishi22 wrote:I know Amare's gone and I've accepted it already. I accepted that he would be gone even before playoffs started. Whether I embrace this squad or not does not change the fact that we have done nothing to address our old problems.

I still don't understand your point with Hedo grabbing those rebounds while playing the C. Hedo grabbed 19 rebounds one time which also happens to be his career high. In the last 5 seasons he's only had 14 games in which he's grabbed double digit boards. That's 14 in like 323 games. In his 1 breakout season, Diaw had 18 double digit rebounding games when he came to Phoenix after 2 seasons playing as ATL's guard. Unless Hedo strung out like 5-8 games where he averaged 12rpg or 13rpg, that one great rebounding game just doesn't say anything about anything other than that he had *one* great rebounding game. It's an outlier.



Has Hedo played in this system and with these players? How can you judge him yet? Do I really have to explain my point a third time? An achieved goal is much better to gauge a player on than one not achieved. Hedo wasn't asked to play center often in his career, and within a year where his motivation was down, he responded.

Diaw had four double digit rebounding games before he came to PHX. Please stop trying to argue about what happened within the season, because Hedo hasn't had the chance to try and do the same. We don't have the luxury to see how Hedo will do in our system, hence we can't judge Hedo for something he hasn't had the chance to do. It is clear that you are ignoring the point that I said we didn't know what Diaw would do. Same with Hedo!!! :banghead: :banghead:

Do you even think Hedo is versatile? Do you think Hedo is more versatile at this point (before ever playing a game for the Suns) than you thought Diaw was (before ever playing a game for the Suns)?

I am not sure how to clarify my statements for you to understand, and I really don't want to continue to have to restate them. I guess we will just agree to disagree. I am much more excited about the team this year than last year, but what do I know, I have only been following this team since 1978. :roll:
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Re: Offseason Grades 

Post#113 » by Frank Lee » Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:57 pm

lilfishi22 wrote:No great team has ever gone deep in the playoffs without at least a decent low post threat.


Dallas went to the finals.
Pistons won with Okur, Sheed, and BenW, and with Salley, Rodman, and Lambeer. Outside of Bill Cartwright, none of the Bulls champ teams had anything in the paint. However the teams that did play good defense won....the one that didnt... didn't.

Our problems will be on the defensive end.

I consider this a rebuilding year. We just lost a huge asset in Stat, and some decent role players. We are squaring off with the x-champs and I accepted the fact a few years ago that DocBuss was going to get Kobe 2 or 3 more rings, no matter what anyone else did. There are a few other very good teams on the rise. Even with Stat, we would not be ranked any higher than #3 in the west, and that would be generous in the eyes of many sports writers.

I look at the moves we have made lately as being transitional. Look at this team... our 2 'staples' (#13 + #33) are becoming vintage. But JChill (5yrs) slides right in for 'soon to be coach' GHill, and Dragic is well along in his Nash grooming. We have 5 yrs. of Frye, 4 yrs. of Hakim, 3 of Tglu locked... we will/should focus on inking Lopez, Dudley, and Dragic for 4 or 5yrs ea..... a couple more of Clark and Lawai if we want them. A tuffguy stashed in Europe... another sleeper to be in Janning.... a young hungry DleagueBanger in Jones. We have 14 mill dropping off the books next yr, giving us additional Free agent flexibility... I dont care about draft picks anymore. Not at the expense of sucking to get a good one.

All these young guys have replaced the likes of those one-n-done tired Vets and scrubs we used to have as back ups. The D'Ant yrs reeked of a 'play for today, and who cares about tomorrow' philosophy that was greedily sold to Sarver and wrapped in a gold ribbon by the Cjellos. Hell it almost worked.

We not only have depth this yr, but you can see a core of 7 or 8 players developing for the next 3 or 4 yrs. Good players. Gentry-type players who value a team concept. And this was done through the draft (Lopez, Dragic, Clark, Lawai, Collins) through free agency (Warrick, Frye, Chill, Jones, Janning) and by trade (TGlu) Sure, not all of them will prosper, but we already know a the abilities of a few, and it is not a large stretch to anticipate most becoming better ball players.

We do not have what it takes to beat the fLakes this yr.... may be not the Blazers, or even up and comer OKC... but we can scare anyone. I guarantee you, nobody would want us in a game 7....

Give all these guys a year to play together under Gentry. Next yr, they should be a better team ... and may be even show it come feb or march. . Its a deceivingly young team that is giving valuable playing time to all its players.

I don't know what you expected, but this sure beats a 'blow it up' season.


hmmmm now let me pick out a pair...
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After this post, I might add one of these too...

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Re: Offseason Grades 

Post#114 » by Wannabe MEP » Wed Sep 29, 2010 9:54 pm

The NBA is extremely slow to adapt to rule changes. Coaches and players who have made their careers under one set of rules do not change everything that they're doing just because the NBA changes a rule. A lot of the best coaches developed their systems while being mentored by other legendary coaches, so in many ways, the NBA is still playing almost the exact same game it was playing under the legendary coaches of the '80s.

Rule changes that have not been fully adapted for in the NBA:
1) Three point line. It's just been the past few years when teams have started to realize just how incredibly valuable the three is. It was a shocking realization that it is one of the most efficient shots on the court. The Suns and the Magic start jacking up threes all over the place (even without personnel that were considered "shooters") and suddenly they have the most efficient offenses in the NBA. Three pointers are efficient in themselves, but they also lead to offensive rebounds (long rebounds) and they open up the court. They stretch the court, opening up boulevards for drivers.

2) Zone defenses. Somehow the NBA got this idea that zones were gimmicky and wimpy, perhaps because when 6th grade girls play it, it's an excuse to stand around and be lazy. Ask Syracuse players if it's lazy. Ask anyone who plays Syracuse if it's gimmicky. Zones haven't yet been legal for ten years, so they haven't evolved into use yet.

3) Hand-check rule. Open up the court, emphasize drives.

Phil Jackson's triangle offense was created in the 1940s. He's been smart enough to adapt it, but it is not the best way to play offense anymore. Nobody else has had the right combination of aggressively rethinking how to play the game, and then implementing that system with skilled enough players who buy in. The Suns and Magic have come very, very close. The Suns had the pick-and-roll and shooters to do it, but not quite the defense. The Magic had the defense and shooters to do it, but not quite the pick-and-roll.

I have become more and more convinced over the years that Stat could never, ever start for an NBA championship team. He is absolutely brilliant in a few aspects of the game, but he is simply not a complete enough player. The Suns HAD to get rid of him. Did they replace him with the right pieces?

I don't know. But it's worth a shot.

Why not play four out, both ends of the court? So simple, and so effective. It was really, really tough to do that with Stat. Nash and Fropez, paired with three guys who can shoot the three. I felt like the Nash-Fropez pick-and-roll was almost as good as the Nash-Stat pick-and-roll, but with three shooters around the perimeter instead of Fropez and Stat in there clogging the middle together, it could be even better.

And then defensively, why not become masters of the zone? 2-3 when Fropez is in for sure. That way, offensively and defensively, we don't need a traditional PF at either end of the court. One Steve Nash, one Fropez, and three quality wing players who can shoot the three and hustle like crazy. Those three can be essentially any combination of like 90% of the Suns roster. No Nash? We're fine now. I'd keep two creators in there: Dragic, Hill, or Turkoglu, but one might be ok, at least sometimes.

No Fropez? That gets more interesting. That's by far my biggest concern with this team. I want to clone him. I'd trade a lot, maybe JRich and Hill, for a Fropez clone. We don't need another power forward, we need another center. My thought is play a 1-3-1 with Warrick in the middle and Frye on the bottom. That way we still have enough length on defense in the middle, and we still can play four out on offense with Frye out.
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Christine-In-AZ
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Re: Offseason Grades 

Post#115 » by Christine-In-AZ » Thu Sep 30, 2010 12:13 am

Frank Lee wrote:I look at the moves we have made lately as being transitional. Look at this team... our 2 'staples' (#13 + #33) are becoming vintage. But JChill (5yrs) slides right in for 'soon to be coach' GHill, and Dragic is well along in his Nash grooming. We have 5 yrs. of Frye, 4 yrs. of Hakim, 3 of Tglu locked... we will/should focus on inking Lopez, Dudley, and Dragic for 4 or 5yrs ea..... a couple more of Clark and Lawai if we want them. A tuffguy stashed in Europe... another sleeper to be in Janning.... a young hungry DleagueBanger in Jones. We have 14 mill dropping off the books next yr, giving us additional Free agent flexibility... I dont care about draft picks anymore. Not at the expense of sucking to get a good one....

...I don't know what you expected, but this sure beats a 'blow it up' season.


+1

No championship hand, but we're holding a bunch of good cards with a flexibility to use them for near term success and at the same time move the transition forward. There are enough "wild cards" in the hand (namely Turkoglu) to at least keep the grander "what ifs" a little life.

Image

It's going to be so interesting to see how the playing time is distributed. As of now, I don't see how Childress and Warrick get more than roundabouts 18 minutes each...and that's with me giving Lawal zero minutes.

This is going to be intriguing to say the least.
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Re: Offseason Grades 

Post#116 » by Frank Lee » Thu Sep 30, 2010 12:45 pm

Los Soles con un rayo de sol


Good points about the zone usage. I have commented on the labels of PF and SF being moot in an effective zone. It goes largely undiscussed here, where statistical blather and assumptive reasoning trump all comers.

Most dissenters are locked in the box, convinced their own tea-leafing- tarot-carding is superior to my 8-Balling-Ouija Boarding when fact is, we are all just throwing-bones and dowsing-rods.

Zone defense is necessary with our personnel. We added length, intelligence and shooting. I doubt we would be structured like this if the zone remained illegal. Props for the Warrick/Syracuse comments. Surely his experience there had some play in his acquisition.

Teams will have to prepare for us individually. If all goes well, we will give coaching staffs the fits. The key will be how they adapt during the game, and how they attack us the second and third time around. Perhaps they will not see the same zone eh?

Now excuse me. I have a wishbone to break and a clover to find.
What ? Me Worry ?

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