Start Frye at the 4

[sunsfever68]

If we're not going to trade for a power forward, we should start Channing Frye.

Here's the reason why.


1. He can grab more boards than Hedo and he can play better post D than Hedo.

In the Lakers series I saw him play solid post D on Gasol and Duncan, not great, but not bad either. All we asked channing to do last year was shoot 3's. He can do more than that. I think Channing could even score off pick and rolls, pick and roll and score in the post. He did that in New York. I still like him shooting 3's but I feel confident Channing can add more to his repertoire offensively and defensively.

2. Moving Turkoglu to the bench makes the bench even stronger

Having a bench of Dragic childress dudley turkoglu and warrick makes our bench the strongest in the league probably and would wear our other teams benches. We'd have multiple ball handlers, multiple shooters, solid perimeter D and we could run and gun.

Turk could be a focus of the offense with Dragic in the 2nd unit and he and Dragic could play off themselves.

3. We put a more traditional lineup out there than with Hedo for our starting 5.

I'd rather have the unconventional lineup be off the bench as opposed to in the starting lineup. Hedo as a power forward off the bench seems more palpable than Hedo as a starting power forward. I realize Frye sacrifices some of his advantages being the starting power forward but I think this makes the most sense for us to compete and become a better team.

Have Frye focus on grabbing 8 boards a game or so, play solid post D, expand his offensive game. I'm ok sacrificing his offense, believe me we're fine on offense.




What do you guys think??

[sunsfan3]

i agree. but the problem is: hedo's ego. i doubt he would produce the same off the bench, and accept the fact that frye is starting over him

[sunsfever68]

I don't get the sense Hedo has an ego, but then again I don't see Hedo being comfortable coming off the bench.

Can't bench Grant he plays better in the starting lineup. Can't bench Nash lopez or J rich either.


I think this move makes sense though.

[suns12345]

i disagree. i think the bench as is will have great chemistry and fit really well. hedo will take the freeness away from how they play. also the starting lineup is relevant for only the first 6 minutes and then they will rarely all be on the court at the same time depending on who is playing well on the night. i have no problem with hedo at the 4. in orlando lewis played the 4 and he's as good a pf as hedo imo

[Kerrsed]

Blah Blah Blah. Cant play Hill off the bench even though Turk is a better SF than Hill. Dudley off the bench >>>> Hill off the bench. Hill is the one messing it up for everyone. Turk should have an ego coming off the bench for hill, as Turk is a better player.

Im just tired of hearing about how we cant have Hill come off the bench, because if we do, he sucks. That just plain sucks. It should be:

Nash/Jrich/Turk/Frye/Lopez

with a bench group of:

Dragic/Childress/Hill/Warrick/Jones

[Nando88]

Blah Blah Blah. Cant play Hill off the bench even though Turk is a better SF than Hill. Dudley off the bench >>>> Hill off the bench. Hill is the one messing it up for everyone. Turk should have an ego coming off the bench for hill, as Turk is a better player.

Im just tired of hearing about how we cant have Hill come off the bench, because if we do, he sucks. That just plain sucks. It should be:

Nash/Jrich/Turk/Frye/Lopez

with a bench group of:

Dragic/Childress/Hill/Warrick/Jones

i've been saying that for sooo long but people around here get their panties bunched up easily when the phrase "LET GRANT COME OFF THE BENCH" is spoken


so for helping me spread the "bring grant off the bench word i award you this coupon

[BurningHeart]

It may suck but thats what we have to deal with. He IS better in the starting lineup, and we need him at his best.

Sorry, Frye on the bench.

[b-ball forever]

The problem with starting Frye at the 4 isn't that it puts Hill on the bench, it's that it forces Lopez to log MAJOR minutes on the court. Given Robin's injuries, and the fact that many 7 footers getting big playtime around league have been going down lately, it'd be better that he doesn't play more than 30 MPG for now.

I think Hill will eventually come off the bench behind Turk at SF anyways if the roster doesn't change, and Dudley will see some time backing up the PF spot... With Warrick starting at the 4. Hedo can play part time at PF but he's way more usefull at the 3.

And we'll likely finish off games with Nash, J-Rich, Turk, and Lopez in the lineup, + one of Hill, Dudley or Frye (depending on the matchup)

[DRK]

I think starting Frye at the 4 will lessen the versatility of the bench. The bench is known for their fast paced, 3pt shooting style of play. Frye has the perfect role on the bench. If he starts, he will have less oppotunities to shoot the ball.

The lineup of

Nash/J-Rich/Hill/Hedo/Lopez

is the lineup we will go with at the start of the season.

It may suck but thats what we have to deal with. He IS better in the starting lineup, and we need him at his best.

Sorry, Frye on the bench.

+1

[Blackification]

Blah Blah Blah. Cant play Hill off the bench even though Turk is a better SF than Hill. Dudley off the bench >>>> Hill off the bench. Hill is the one messing it up for everyone. Turk should have an ego coming off the bench for hill, as Turk is a better player.

Im just tired of hearing about how we cant have Hill come off the bench, because if we do, he sucks. That just plain sucks. It should be:

Nash/Jrich/Turk/Frye/Lopez

with a bench group of:

Dragic/Childress/Hill/Warrick/Jones

Bench unit doesn't work at all dudley was the leader of that bench last year he was the first one in off the bench for a reason can't give his minutes to jones just to put frye at the C. Our second unit domination is our biggest strength and this weakens them a lot imo. Dragic, dudley, and frye already have good chemistry warrick will fit in just fine and childress will add a lot I think the projected line up is honestly the best one we can come up with as it is. Unless there is a trade for a legit PF to start its hedos spot.

Oh and the whole lopez foul trouble thing where we need frye to replace him. i don't trust jones to be much of a back up C.

[Frank Lee]

Lets hope for no changes as it would indicate our perceived weaknesses are true. Lets hope this tweaked team has success with its un-conventionalism.

Accept our line ups... for the first 20-30 games, then see.

and dont worry about egos... the lion's share has left us.

[raff]

Lets hope for no changes as it would indicate our perceived weaknesses are true. Lets hope this tweaked team has success with its un-conventionalism.

Accept our line ups... for the first 20-30 games, then see.

and dont worry about egos... the lion's share has left us.

The voice of reason.

[Frank Lee]

Lets hope for no changes as it would indicate our perceived weaknesses are true. Lets hope this tweaked team has success with its un-conventionalism.

Accept our line ups... for the first 20-30 games, then see.

and dont worry about egos... the lion's share has left us.

The voice of reason.

Thank you my son (said while gesturing in a holy fashion wearing a tall hat) .... I have saved many from a mountain climb

[YFZblu]

The last thing Phoenix wants to do is piss Hedo Turkoglu off, right out of the gate by placing him on the bench. In Toronto, we all saw how unproductive he can be when he's unhappy about his situation.

[th3matrix1]

The problem with starting Frye at the 4 isn't that it puts Hill on the bench, it's that it forces Lopez to log MAJOR minutes on the court. Given Robin's injuries, and the fact that many 7 footers getting big playtime around league have been going down lately, it'd be better that he doesn't play more than 30 MPG for now.

+1

Frye also looked pretty good as Lopez's backup, he stretched the court and made centers like Duncan play out of their comfort zones.

[Miklo]

I really don't see how you could make a strong case for taking Hill out of the starting 5...saying so indicates that you're looking at individual players' strengths or stats or something, and not at 5-man units. We rarely play Frye and Lopez together and when we do, our +/- and win % is ugly. It's not just about Hill performing better as a starter is what I'm saying, it's about how he affects the other guys on the floor.

Not only that but while Frye is good for spacing the floor, it's absolutely no different than Turk at PF - except Turk is more versatile. Frye is one-dimensional and we bring him in solely because of his shooting and how it spreads the floor. Hill, who you replace by sliding Turk down and putting Frye in, is also much more versatile than Frye.

Conclusion: you're going with a lineup that doesn't perform well on the floor, and you're replacing a jack-of-all-trades with a chucker. Pass.

[Sun Scorched]

I really don't see how you could make a strong case for taking Hill out of the starting 5...saying so indicates that you're looking at individual players' strengths or stats or something, and not at 5-man units. We rarely play Frye and Lopez together and when we do, our +/- and win % is ugly. It's not just about Hill performing better as a starter is what I'm saying, it's about how he affects the other guys on the floor.

Not only that but while Frye is good for spacing the floor, it's absolutely no different than Turk at PF - except Turk is more versatile. Frye is one-dimensional and we bring him in solely because of his shooting and how it spreads the floor. Hill, who you replace by sliding Turk down and putting Frye in, is also much more versatile than Frye.

Conclusion: you're going with a lineup that doesn't perform well on the floor, and you're replacing a jack-of-all-trades with a chucker. Pass.

+33.

Seriously, everyone is acting like Hill is a black hole on offense. I honestly haven't seen the guy take one shot that I thought was a bad one. In addition, he is arguably our best defender. Sure, Dudley can play up on PG-SF's, but Hill can even guard PF's in spot minutes, and he does a decent job. Plus, Hill is by far our best player in the open court in terms of actually going at the rim as opposed to running to a corner to jack up a trey.

Finally, and after this you'll wonder why you forgot this, Hill is our first starter out of the game when Gentry decides to sub in Dudley. It's not like he's commanding 36+ a night and we're suffering because of it.

Gentry is a good coach and Hill is the consumate professional. If either felt the rotation wasn't working, it would change.

But it's working. So... why change?

[SUN]

I'd be fine with that. I'm just not to keen on making Hill sit on the bench, let alone frigging Hedo. Hedo was upset in Toronto, even though he was in the starting line-up, and putting him on the bench is like like trying to stop a fire with gasoline. I'd rather have a lineup of Nash, Rich, Hedo, Warrick, Lopez. That works better, Warrick-Nash pick n' roll will work out nicely, and having Hedo and Nash feeding both Warrick, Lopez and Jason is just awesome. The other issue I have with Frye starting is he's a jump shooting big man. There's nothing wrong with that, it's just Warrick-Nash duo on the pick and roll would work better.

So onto our second unit, if Hedo comes off the bench he'll swallow everyones minutes up, we'd have a bench of Hedo, Hill, Jared, Dragic, Childress, Gani and Jones? Where's the minutes going, huh? Where's the minutes? If you where to take Hedo out of the lineup, then you'll have a huge ass clog that not even a plunger could fix. This would limit the playing time of our youngsters. Oh, and remember the mistreatment Childress got in Atlanta? He deserves better. I'm against this, If I'm wrong please tell me!

[Wannabe MEP]

Im just tired of hearing about how we cant have Hill come off the bench, because if we do, he sucks. That just plain sucks.

Agreed. Hill can come off the bench. But I don't know how much that matters. It's not who comes off the bench, but rather personnel combinations. With Nash on the court: You need a quality big to run the pick-and-roll. The other three players?
1) They have to be able to shoot the three.
2) They have to be able to defend.
(not necessarily in that order)
That is really it. If our wings can shoot threes, the Suns are the most efficient offense in the NBA with Nash and Fropez on the court. But then they have to defend (including rebounding).

It should be:

Nash/Jrich/Turk/Frye/Lopez

with a bench group of:

Dragic/Childress/Hill/Warrick/Jones

I don't like these lineups for two reasons:
1) Where is Dudley?? He's been arguably the best Sun other than Nash. http://basketballvalue.com/topplayers.php?year=2010%20playoffs&mode=summary&sortnumber=94&sortorder=DESC
Whether you look at one year adj +/- or two years, he is 16th in the entire NBA, and easily second best Sun behind Nash. Then look at this:
http://basketballvalue.com/teamunits.php?year=2009-2010&sortnumber=17&sortorder=DESC&team=PHX
The top 7 units for the 2009-2010 Suns have one name in common. Hint: it isn't Nash. Not even the top 3 units all have Nash. Or Stat. Or Fropez. Or JRich or Frye or Hill or Dragic or Barbosa or Lou (Each of those names appears at least once in the top 3 units). The only name common to each of the top 3 units--and also common to each of the top 7 units--is Dudley.

I think Dudley should start over Hill or JRich or whoever (but then, I don't really care who starts, as long as he gets his minutes). But I really like pairing Dudley with Nash.

2) One of the best parts about the second unit last year, and something I believe the Suns should do approximately 99.9% of the time, is that they had four three-point shooters on the court. Stretches the defense. Opens up BOULEVARDS in the middle. Play inside-out, outside-in, inside-out, outside-in, etc.

[Frank Lee]

Alright... I am convinced.
Frye and Lopez need not play together. Give them 24 each.