Poll: Grade Ernie Grunfeld

[closg00]

October 5th, I could change it from a C to a B ... or from a C back down to D. Just depends on the wind speed, JJ.

That practice was just like the first impression you get when you meet somebody. Seeing them all out there I couldn't help thinking the year's not going to be as good as I expected. But since I had unrealistically high expectations (45-50 wins) I still won't be unhappy with 35 wins.

So, are you going to the prediction thread to change your prediction? Booker may turn-out to be ok, but seriously doubt he will have been worth giving-up two picks. I didn't know you didn't like the new AB contract, missed your post.

[AlohaWiz]

Overall, Washington has hit the restart button fairly successfully. New owner Ted Leonsis purchased the team from the family of Abe Pollin and appears to be taking a much more realistic approach to building it. The Wizards stayed out of the free-agent market despite having cap space, notably eschewing the quick-fix mentality the team employed the previous few seasons. The only eyebrow-raiser was his decision to retain general manager Ernie Grunfeld, whose serial mistakes got Washington here in the first place.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/training ... recast1011

Hollinger on Ted and Ernie, a rare moment of complete candor by someone in the media.

The first and last sentences of Hollinger's paragraph sum up my views of EG as the Wizard's GM. I'd give him a grade in the D range for getting "Washington here in the first place." I don't think he rates an F, since he did put together playoff teams in Washington (even if those teams had a low chance of success they were fun to watch). Besides, I think F's are for the Isiah Thomas's of the league.

Since the team has "hit the restart button" I'd give him a grade in the B range with that grade being subject to change depending on how the draft picks and other moves work out. Essentially, I still see him as average with an overall grade of a C. But, under Leonsis, I'm holding out hope that EG's report card improves over time.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

October 5th, I could change it from a C to a B ... or from a C back down to D. Just depends on the wind speed, JJ.

That practice was just like the first impression you get when you meet somebody. Seeing them all out there I couldn't help thinking the year's not going to be as good as I expected. But since I had unrealistically high expectations (45-50 wins) I still won't be unhappy with 35 wins.

So, are you going to the prediction thread to change your prediction? Booker may turn-out to be ok, but seriously doubt he will have been worth giving-up two picks. I didn't know you didn't like the new AB contract, missed your post.

No, I LOVE the new AB contract. I bumped EG's grade up (even though I know it's all Ted) just for signing AB. I've decided to only grade EG on transactions made since the middle of last season from now on. Overall, I know I would give him a D. However, I'm thinking C for the past 9 or so months.

Draft day there were guys like Dom Jones, Quincy Pondexter, Devin Ebanks, injured DaSean Butler, Derrick Caracter, Greg Zoubek, who MIGHT have been better fits than what ended up being Booker and Seraphin. I'm already counting Booker a mild disappointment and Seraphin not a true C and a guy who's a long ways off.

We'll see how things turn out.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Overall, Washington has hit the restart button fairly successfully. New owner Ted Leonsis purchased the team from the family of Abe Pollin and appears to be taking a much more realistic approach to building it. The Wizards stayed out of the free-agent market despite having cap space, notably eschewing the quick-fix mentality the team employed the previous few seasons. The only eyebrow-raiser was his decision to retain general manager Ernie Grunfeld, whose serial mistakes got Washington here in the first place.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/training ... recast1011

Hollinger on Ted and Ernie, a rare moment of complete candor by someone in the media.

The first and last sentences of Hollinger's paragraph sum up my views of EG as the Wizard's GM. I'd give him a grade in the D range for getting "Washington here in the first place." I don't think he rates an F, since he did put together playoff teams in Washington (even if those teams had a low chance of success they were fun to watch). Besides, I think F's are for the Isiah Thomas's of the league.

Since the team has "hit the restart button" I'd give him a grade in the B range with that grade being subject to change depending on how the draft picks and other moves work out. Essentially, I still see him as average with an overall grade of a C. But, under Leonsis, I'm holding out hope that EG's report card improves over time.

I'm right at your overall grade, AlohaWiz.

[closg00]

Oops, my-bad CCJ, I misunderstood when you wrote:

My EG grade shifts like wind speed and direction. Watching Midnight Madness made my buzz over the Blatche signing wear off....

^^^^
This had nothing to do with Blatche's play ( not sure that he did play)

[closg00]

Totally missed Ernie's chat today, but here is the transcript.
http://www.washingtonwizardsblog.com/20 ... at-at-230/

[Dat2U]

Ernie Grunfeld's run in DC? I'd give him D+. Maybe a C- if I'm in a good mood that day.

We can make excuses for any & everything but the bottom line isn't all that pretty. In all honestly, winning one playoff series in 7 years isn't some great accomplishment, especially considering more than half the teams in the NBA make the playoffs each year and he had an owner that was willing to shell out big bucks for a winner, albeit a bit misguided one.

We could ask what Bucks fans think of Grunfeld. I suspect he'd get something in the general range of a C.

So how far can an average-at-best NBA executive take us?

[montestewart]

We could ask what Bucks fans think of Grunfeld. I suspect he'd get something in the general range of a C.

I have a good friend who's a Bucks fan (from Milwaukee) and we've talked NBA quite a bit over the years. He never gave EG a grade that I recall, but his comments echo many on this board: pretty good eye for talent (hence drafting Redd) but he thought EG got burned too often in trades and wasn't happy with the way he constructed teams. Just one Bucks fan, but he warned me. Let's see what Ruzious thinks.

Anyway, it's a new year, and maybe a better dynamic.

[nate33]

Ernie Grunfeld's run in DC? I'd give him D+. Maybe a C- if I'm in a good mood that day.

We can make excuses for any & everything but the bottom line isn't all that pretty. In all honestly, winning one playoff series in 7 years isn't some great accomplishment, especially considering more than half the teams in the NBA make the playoffs each year and he had an owner that was willing to shell out big bucks for a winner, albeit a bit misguided one.

We could ask what Bucks fans think of Grunfeld. I suspect he'd get something in the general range of a C.

So how far can an average-at-best NBA executive take us?

I think a D or C- is pretty harsh. EG came aboard when we sucked. He immediately acquired enough talent for us to make the playoffs for four consecutive years. We made the second round once. If Arenas remained healthy, we probably would have had a six-year run at the playoffs and maybe made the second round twice.

Being a second tier playoff team in the East is roughly average. That means he deserves a C. If you factor the bare cupboard of talent when he came aboard, as well as the terrible reputation of the franchise, I'd say he deserves a C+ or perhaps a B-

[no D in Hibachi]

Being a second tier playoff team in the East is roughly average. That means he deserves a C. If you factor the bare cupboard of talent when he came aboard, as well as the terrible reputation of the franchise, I'd say he deserves a C+ or perhaps a B-

I don't want to be too cynacal, but has the reputation changed much at all? If it has doen't you think Ted has done more do change it than EG? Whenever I talk with my friends out West about basketball they immediately roll their eyes when I bring up the Wiz--they are still widely considered Clippers-East.

[nate33]

I'm not saying that EG changed the reputation. I'm saying that EG managed to acquire and retain some decent players to good contracts (signing Arenas, resigning Haywood and Butler) despite our lousy reputation.

[Dat2U]

I'm not saying that EG changed the reputation. I'm saying that EG managed to acquire and retain some decent players to good contracts (signing Arenas, resigning Haywood and Butler) despite our lousy reputation.

And Michael Jordan managed to make a solid move or two when he was here in DC. He actually traded for Haywood & managed to dump Howard's supposedly immovable deal. Does he get a C+/B- as well?

I think a D or C- is pretty harsh. EG came aboard when we sucked. He immediately acquired enough talent for us to make the playoffs for four consecutive years. We made the second round once. If Arenas remained healthy, we probably would have had a six-year run at the playoffs and maybe made the second round twice.

Being a second tier playoff team in the East is roughly average. That means he deserves a C. If you factor the bare cupboard of talent when he came aboard, as well as the terrible reputation of the franchise, I'd say he deserves a C+ or perhaps a B-

EG immediately made a trade that short circuited what should have been a patient rebuilding process, which eventually led us into the rebuilding were doing right now. And again, you act like its some big accomplishment to make the playoffs in the NBA. Especially when in the East had been absolutely terrible for half the damn decade. In 7 years we've had four seasons hovering .500 and three absolutely brutal seasons. I don't see anything to celebrate or give credit for.

The bottom line of all this is to ask whether Ernie is guy you can trust to string together a number of good moves (not just an occasional one here and there) and build a legit championship contender? I think it's painfully obvious based on the last 12 years or so of evidence that he is not that guy.

[MJG]

I think EG is about as "C" as you can get. He's made great moves and he's made awful moves and he's made moves everywhere in between. The team has been better with him than they were before him, but still has never been better than average. If you want to quibble over C, C+, C-, that's fine, but going as far up to a B or down to a D seems silly.

[gesa2]

I agree, Ernie's a C of some sort. He looks better to some because we had no semblance of a professional front office for 15+ years before him. Jordan made a couple of good moves - trading Howard, getting Haywood - but once he decided to come back, the team was just a vehicle for his ego until he left, and we sacrificed the future to get an old superstar into playoff contention one last time. After that, any reasonably competent GM was going to look good.

I'm OK with the Ernie/Leonsis combo; I think with clear marching orders Ernie won't screw up, and our future will be determined more by the development of our young talent than by his decisions over the next couple of years.

[nate33]

And Michael Jordan managed to make a solid move or two when he was here in DC. He actually traded for Haywood & managed to dump Howard's supposedly immovable deal. Does he get a C+/B- as well?

Jordan didn't really dump Howard. He traded him for Laettner's expiring deal plus a bunch of other contracts of the same length as Howard's contract. He then resigned Laettner, thereby eliminating all of the cap savings.

The Haywood deal was good. It was his best move as GM. It was pretty much his only good move as a GM (though I suppose the Larry Hughes MLE signing wasn't half bad).

EG immediately made a trade that short circuited what should have been a patient rebuilding process, which eventually led us into the rebuilding were doing right now. And again, you act like its some big accomplishment to make the playoffs in the NBA. Especially when in the East had been absolutely terrible for half the damn decade. In 7 years we've had four seasons hovering .500 and three absolutely brutal seasons. I don't see anything to celebrate or give credit for.

The bottom line of all this is to ask whether Ernie is guy you can trust to string together a number of good moves (not just an occasional one here and there) and build a legit championship contender? I think it's painfully obvious based on the last 12 years or so of evidence that he is not that guy.

I never said it was some kind of big accomplishment. But it wasn't terrible either. The Wizards had a longer run of success than many other teams in the East during the same stretch.

Nobody is saying EG deserves an A+. I just think he deserves a C+. It's fine if you don't think that's good enough. I don't think it's good enough either. But let's not make it sound like EG is Isiah Thomas or anything. EG is a reasonably competent GM.

[LyricalRico]

Nobody is saying EG deserves an A+.

Exactly, nobody's perfect. Maybe an A-, though...

[closg00]

Nobody is saying EG deserves an A+.

Exactly, nobody's perfect. Maybe an A-, though...

Good-one Melodeus/Rico

[Ruzious]

We could ask what Bucks fans think of Grunfeld. I suspect he'd get something in the general range of a C.

I have a good friend who's a Bucks fan (from Milwaukee) and we've talked NBA quite a bit over the years. He never gave EG a grade that I recall, but his comments echo many on this board: pretty good eye for talent (hence drafting Redd) but he thought EG got burned too often in trades and wasn't happy with the way he constructed teams. Just one Bucks fan, but he warned me. Let's see what Ruzious thinks.

Anyway, it's a new year, and maybe a better dynamic.

Yeah, in Milwaukee he had an owner who was extremely similar to Abe Pollin who was a similarly somewhat limiting factor. One think he's always done is over-pay to keep over-rated players - giving huge contracts to Tim Thomas and Michael Redd there. And he tried to get Etan Thomas. He never had a good long-range plan. The Ray Allen/Glove trade wasn't made because he wanted to - as much as for money factors and trying to win that year. I actually liked his trade of Glen Robinson for Kukoc and a pick. And when Karl was there with him, I think he let Karl walk all over him to make some poor choices.

[AlohaWiz]

Nobody is saying EG deserves an A+.

Exactly, nobody's perfect. Maybe an A-, though...

Good-one Melodeus/Rico

In Ernest we trust!

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

And Michael Jordan managed to make a solid move or two when he was here in DC. He actually traded for Haywood & managed to dump Howard's supposedly immovable deal. Does he get a C+/B- as well?

Jordan didn't really dump Howard. He traded him for Laettner's expiring deal plus a bunch of other contracts of the same length as Howard's contract. He then resigned Laettner, thereby eliminating all of the cap savings.

MJ might have still been thinking of Laettner the Dream Teamer ...

Accordiing to Shaq, Laettner was a fundamental mother shut yo mouth better college player coming out of college than he was, and was justifiably selected ahead of him for Dream Team I.

Coming out of college Laettner was probably a better player than me. I was more dominant. A lot of guys are masters at certain things, Christian Laettner was a fundamental [expletive, something about a mother if memory serves]. But I was more dominant, I was more mean. I wanted to be picked, yeah. But no one told me, I don’t even know if I was next after Laettner. I was just at home one day and my dad came in pissed. He broke a lamp and said ‘How’d they pick that [same expletive] over you?’ I was like ‘What are you talking about?’ He said ‘They picked Laettner over you.’ He was pissed. But it was cool. I was happy to be picked for Dream Team 2 and keep it going.

I can't defend MJ's resigning Laettner, but I do recall Christian was a very effective player for the Wizards. Especially the season of the trade and in his first contract year.