Grade Flip Saunders

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Flip prefers Hilton Armstrong's substance over style and says he's had a better camp than Javale McGee.

Damn. Last season Flip Saunders ran the offense into the ground, played a short bench when he had a lot of good players--Blatche was benched prior to the trade and he didn't play McGee or Young when he was losing with Oberto and Stevenson, and Flip proved to be a coach who would throw a player under the bus in a minute. His postgame meltdowns were as bad as Doug Collins'.

Now this crap.

I didn't like Saunders from November on of last season. He got a pass for the 15 or 16 game losing streak, but I think that doesn't happen to a better coach. But this season he's already saying in effect that Armstong and Hinrich (three guard talk) are the way he's going to go. (EDITED-this may not be bad situationally).

Flip's grade from me last season was D or D-. The man did a very poor job IMO.

Right now, with Armstrong his answer at C I'm giving Saunders a big fat F.

[montestewart]

he didn't play McGee or Young when he was losing with Oberto and Stevenson

Old school Saunders appreciated that Oberto and Stevenson knew how to "lose the right way."

If Armstrong excels defensively such that he is at least adequate, bringing McGee in when Hinrich subs for Arenas might work, with better perimeter defense reducing reliance on McGee to block lanes, and also easier to monitor his minutes if he's still getting winded.

It's not a great long term plan, but so far, Armstrong isn't a long term plan, and McGee so far hasn't proven to be a good one. I haven't followed training camp too closely, but the McGee reports have a familiar sound.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

The problem is they want McGee to be something he isn't and they don't want to find a role for what he is. Some coaches pound system and don't particularly care to tailor it to personnel. Flip is one of them IMO.

Maybe the Wizards need to package Javale in a trade for somebody Flip can deal with.

[verbal8]

he didn't play McGee or Young when he was losing with Oberto and Stevenson

Old school Saunders appreciated that Oberto and Stevenson knew how to "lose the right way."

If Armstrong excels defensively such that he is at least adequate, bringing McGee in when Hinrich subs for Arenas might work, with better perimeter defense reducing reliance on McGee to block lanes, and also easier to monitor his minutes if he's still getting winded.

It's not a great long term plan, but so far, Armstrong isn't a long term plan, and McGee so far hasn't proven to be a good one. I haven't followed training camp too closely, but the McGee reports have a familiar sound.

If Armstrong can be a guy who puts up a PER of 12 but holds his guy to similar production this approach could work. Basically someone to do what Joel Anthony did for the Heat last year.

Armstrong did this in limited minutes his rookie season. However his 3rd year he got significant minutes his 3rd season and was terrible as he has been most of his career.

This will definitely be a very interesting season. There are a lot of guys on the team in a "make-it-or-break-it" situation. McGee may not be in that group, but he has to at least show progress this season.

[fishercob]

Why don't we wait until they play a game or two?

[Ruzious]

Methinks some folks still don't understand that if Javale doesn't play, that's a function of Javale's poor play - rather than the coach's poor decision. If we're smart enough to realize that Javale is far more talented than Hilton, then the chances are likely that the coach understands it.

[Hoopalotta]

Testing, testing, one-two......

[closg00]

Grading last season, I gave Flip a D for many of the reasons CCJ wrote. Flip never played Andray and Haywood together with AJ coming off the bench. DeShawn was horrible beyond belief yet played nightly over Nick...and on and on. Flip had a roster that was waaay better than the poor record that we had and he didn't make any adjustments until nearly the end of the season.

I'm giving Flip a clean-slate and looking forward to seeing what he's got in-mind forthese guys.

[dandridge 10]

Oh boy, here we go again.

[montestewart]

Why don't we wait until they play a game or two?

The waiting is the hardest part.

[Dat2U]

I won't have an real opinion on Flip until 15-20 games into the season. I don't think he was very good coach for MOST of last season but like I did with Eddie Jordan, I'll cut him some slack on his first season here.

It wasn't until 20 games into his second season that I started calling for Eddie Jordan's head. (Ok, I'm lying, maybe it was only 10, LOL!) But considering the awful situation he encountered last year (some of which he had no control over), Flip deserves a chance to start over with a clean slate.

I have much more angst towards Ernie Grunfeld than I do Flip right now.

[TheGreatWall]

Chocolate City Jordanaire -- how do you find a role for a player with low b-ball IQ and an unwillingness to bang down low? Unless Javale suddenly starts developing handles and court vision, he's going to be a liability in several aspects this year.

[queridiculo]

My grade on his current body of work is solid C. I think he did a great job after the All-Star break and the trades, but based on how the team performed before that it could easily be a D.

How he handles McGee is going to have a big impact on how I see him going forward. I realize there is only so much a coach can do, but if he can get through to him and tap some of that potential he'd earn himself an A in my book.

[queridiculo]

Chocolate City Jordanaire -- how do you find a role for a player with low b-ball IQ and an unwillingness to bang down low? Unless Javale suddenly starts developing handles and court vision, he's going to be a liability in several aspects this year.

More importantly, how do you get through to a player/kid with overinflated sense of self that's constantly getting powdered sugar blown up his ass by his mom?

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Chocolate City Jordanaire -- how do you find a role for a player with low b-ball IQ and an unwillingness to bang down low? Unless Javale suddenly starts developing handles and court vision, he's going to be a liability in several aspects this year.

Great questions, TGW.

I only know that just because a guy is tall you shouldn't ascribe him to the role of post banger. This camp, with guys like Seraphin, Booker, Hamady all being willing to mix it up; Javale is IMO having not such a good time of it banging inside. It's absolutely no surprise to me that Hilton Armstrong has fared better than McGee.

How do you find a role for McGee, TGW? Not sure, but I would take what I think is the opposite approach from Flip. First, I'd focus on one or two things Javale does exceptionally well. I'd figure out how to put him in those situations. Second, I'd figure out what he really does poorly and try not to make him become good at it, but rather to minimize the liability of having him there.

Not starting McGee would be not such a big deal to me if Hilton freaking Armstrong weren't Flip's choice. I would start McGee if for no other reason than to build his trade value should he not get better.

Dat and closq, I feel like I am jumping the gun on Flip and I'm doing so intentionally. If I hadn't seen the man consistently get it wrong in the past I wouldn't post about this one thing. However, the real reason I don't like what he's doing is Javale had a GREAT summer league and he had TWO AUDITIONS with Team USA. I know Coach K had a dearth of bigs, but the man said Javale is "really good". I trust THAT COACH a heck of a lot more than Flip.

By bringing in a player that other teams traded or waived, a player who has never averaged as much as 5 PPG or as much as 3.5 rebounds to START over a perceived up-and-coming player you destroy hope and say coach's way or no way and you BREAK THE CONFIDENCE of a young player.

Don't tell me Hilton Armstrong is the answer at C.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

My grade on his current body of work is solid C. I think he did a great job after the All-Star break and the trades, but based on how the team performed before that it could easily be a D.

How he handles McGee is going to have a big impact on how I see him going forward. I realize there is only so much a coach can do, but if he can get through to him and tap some of that potential he'd earn himself an A in my book.

I think playing him through mistakes is better than benching him based on how Hilton Armstrong has played roughly one week of training camp. If the coach is tapping potential that way I'll be the first to admit I am wrong when it works.

What I think Flip is doing is flat wrong and flat out dumb. Trade McGee. Javale's been the projected starter in publications and in fantasy leagues. There is an expectation there. Even if it seems like a sense of entitlement, McGee's been a starter (under EJ) and has played for Tapscott and Saunders. In his third season I think it doesn't do anything good sitting him for a guy who has had informal workouts and one week as a Wizard.

Only so much a coach can do? Flip can do a whole lot wrong. I have seen it time and again.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Why don't we wait until they play a game or two?

Because already the good chemistry between Wall and McGee has been circumvented by Flip Saunders.

Because I'd rather comment at the start of a problem, like I have for years and years. (Suggesting Millsap, well actually Boozer over Kwame if you want to go way back). I know folks hate complaining. Folks hate to hear negative reports, particularly before one game's been played.

fish, I'm not mad at you and I'm sure you are with the majority here. Wait and see how it comes out.

I just want to plant the seed and say last season, when Flip got it wrong he consistently stuck with wasn't working. Hilton Armstrong's his guy. Hell or high water. Watch and see.

[queridiculo]

Playing through mistakes is pointless if the player in question continues to make the same damn mistakes time and time again. If you recall that's precisely what Saunders attempted, but it quickly became clear that McGee either wasn't up to task, or that the coaching he received didn't have the desired impact.

[leswizards]

IMO, coaching basketball is like playing Tic Tac Toe in the sense that regardless of how smart the coach is a team will never win a game because the coach is a genius. On the other hand, if the coach is a moron, it can cause a team to lose quite a few basketball games. In that regards, there were some things I was unhappy with last season as to how Flip coached the team (i.e., playing Stevenson and Oberto, and how pitiful the offense looked), but there really isn't anything I can recall him doing that makes me think he cost the Wizards a lot of games last season. IMO, most of the losses last season were simply the fault of how poorly a lot of key players played. So, I would give him an incomplete at this point.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

leswiz, nice post but I very respectfully disagree. Last season, prior to the trade what Flip didn't do with a loaded lineup did cost the Wizards games IMO.

-He never tried Jamison at SF, Oberto at PF, and Haywood with C. Butler as sixth man would have rocked. He never tried the same combo with Butler starting and with Jamison coming off the bench as sixth man. Butler/Jamison as starting Fs simply didn't work (we knew they suffered mightily defensively from EJ days) but Flip never adjusted. In fact, he kept playing both 40+ minutes despite them getting killed and Butler playing very selfishly.

-Other things Flip never tried: Blatche as starting PF. Washington would have won a bunch of games last season had Flip simply made Jamison or Butler sixth man. Or, just make Butler the starting SG and Jamison the SF, with Blatche at PF. Flip didn't play McGee with Blatche. He couldn't conceive of playing McGee with Haywood.

There were things Flip did IMO that did cost the Wizards games. Some of those Stevenson/Oberto games might have been wins with Young as a starter. I will never forget Young outplaying Wade but being benched two games later. Flip did start Quentin Ross, after DeShawn was traded. Flip didn't play Nick Young despite iteration after iteration showing Young was effective in numerous 5-man units.

leswizards, I thought Flip did a lot of moronic things last season and I believe he far from lived up to his reputation. I recall praising his coaching three or four times late in the season, but I criticized his moves far, far more often.