Cliff Lee wants CC type money?

[Pharmcat]

1. Cliff Lee, SP, Texas Rangers: While a midsummer swoon didn’t destroy Lee’s value, it made fawning executives consider the danger in offering a 32-year-old anything beyond a four-year deal. Lee wants at least six, and at CC Sabathia(notes) dollars, a price few can afford. Yet if Lee mimics his 2009 postseason – 4-0 with a 1.56 ERA, averaging more than eight innings a start – teams will join the bidding. And the Yankees will be at the

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=A ... ford100110


I think we would need him badly, esp if andy retires and no way javy coming back...but anything more than 4 yrs for him is too much?

[Christophersp10]

Couple of major differences. CC was going into his age 28 season. Cliff Lee is going to be 32 next year.


The economy is still in the toilet. I love/hate Cliff Lee as a pitcher but he almost always has a meltdown in August, happened the last 2 years. Getting out of that Texas heat and hitters park should do him some good though.

[Dr. Detfink]

The Yanks track record with 32 year old pitchers is never good. Still like an innings eater like Lee in case Pettitte leaves but not at that kind of coin. Team has too many needs anyways.

[Jitpal]

I really can't imagine a scenario where Cliff Lee isn't a Yankee next year. The Yankees need a big time starter. After CC and Hughes, there is no one reliable on the staff. I don't think Pettitte is coming back after his injuries this year. The Yankees need to go out and get two starters. Lee and another innings eater that can pitch to a 4.00 era. -Jitpal

[Pharmcat]

I really can't imagine a scenario where Cliff Lee isn't a Yankee next year. The Yankees need a big time starter. After CC and Hughes, there is no one reliable on the staff. I don't think Pettitte is coming back after his injuries this year. The Yankees need to go out and get two starters. Lee and another innings eater that can pitch to a 4.00 era. -Jitpal

you consider the pitching in the AL East, the yanks NEED lee

the question is, do you go over 4 yrs to get him?

[Jitpal]

I really can't imagine a scenario where Cliff Lee isn't a Yankee next year. The Yankees need a big time starter. After CC and Hughes, there is no one reliable on the staff. I don't think Pettitte is coming back after his injuries this year. The Yankees need to go out and get two starters. Lee and another innings eater that can pitch to a 4.00 era. -Jitpal

you consider the pitching in the AL East, the yanks NEED lee

the question is, do you go over 4 yrs to get him?

I really don't see another option. The other starters on the free agent market are 4's at best. The cream of that crop is Ted Lilly, who I think the Yankees should get to be their 5th starter. They still have that hole for the 2 or 3. Even if you look at the usual group of guys that are mentioned as trade candidates year in and year out, their asking prices are going to be astronomical. Would you trade something like Montero, Joba, Betances and Nova for a guy like Grienke? That's an insane price to pay, IMO, but that's what they are going to ask for. AJ Burnett really screws this whole thing up because you have to carry him on the rotation, you need the other 4 guys to cover up for at least half of his starts. You have to sign Lee. The Yankees should try and do 4/90 or 4/95 instead of 5/100 if they can avoid it. The rotation of CC/Hughes/Lee/Burnett/Lilly, is pretty good. -Jitpal

[moocow007]

I really can't imagine a scenario where Cliff Lee isn't a Yankee next year. The Yankees need a big time starter. After CC and Hughes, there is no one reliable on the staff. I don't think Pettitte is coming back after his injuries this year. The Yankees need to go out and get two starters. Lee and another innings eater that can pitch to a 4.00 era. -Jitpal

you consider the pitching in the AL East, the yanks NEED lee

the question is, do you go over 4 yrs to get him?

I really don't see another option. The other starters on the free agent market are 4's at best. The cream of that crop is Ted Lilly, who I think the Yankees should get to be their 5th starter. They still have that hole for the 2 or 3. Even if you look at the usual group of guys that are mentioned as trade candidates year in and year out, their asking prices are going to be astronomical. Would you trade something like Montero, Joba, Betances and Nova for a guy like Grienke? That's an insane price to pay, IMO, but that's what they are going to ask for. AJ Burnett really screws this whole thing up because you have to carry him on the rotation, you need the other 4 guys to cover up for at least half of his starts. You have to sign Lee. The Yankees should try and do 4/90 or 4/95 instead of 5/100 if they can avoid it. The rotation of CC/Hughes/Lee/Burnett/Lilly, is pretty good. -Jitpal

Here's an option...



[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLGB69siot8[/youtube]

...if any Japanese pitcher can handle the spotlight and pressure, it's Darvish.

[Jitpal]

I could swear I read someplace that Darvish's fastball velocity was only averaging 92-93 now. Regardless, while I wouldn't be against going after Darvish, he is a far riskier move than Lee or even Lilly. First of all, the posting process is a mess. The sealed envelope bids means the Yankees could be bidding against themselves or not being able to flex their financial muscle against a smaller market team. Additionally, we really don't know how Darvish will perform once here. Forget Igawa, look at Matsuzaka. The guy needs 21312312323 pitches per game to go 5 innings, his velocity is down and now it looks like his innings are catching up to him. I don't mean to paint all Japanese pitchers with the same brush, but there is a fairly large disparity between MLB and Japan, not to mention the lineups of the AL East.

So I would expect to still go after Lee. If you want to go after Darvish after as a high-rish, high-reward type thing, I wouldn't be against it. I just think Lilly would be a better solidifier at the backend, at least until late in the year, when hopefully, the guys from the minors might make the jump from AA to the Majors. -Jitpal

[Pharmcat]

it makes no sense to go after darvish b4 lee

with lee, you know what u get

[moocow007]

it makes no sense to go after darvish b4 lee

with lee, you know what u get

Going after Lee is fine but he far from the a no brainer that people may be imagining him to be especially at that crazy asking price.

6 year $120+ million is INSANE even if it was a 32 year old Roy Halladay (and Lee isn't Roy Halladay) I don't care what team you are.

The rate of failure for a player especially a pitcher in NY is tremendous which makes any money given to a player more risky (and therefor more expensive) than even face value.

Lee as a sure thing? Javier Vazquez was supposed to be a sure thing. Jeff Weaver was supposed to be a sure thing. AJ Burnett was coming off a stint with the Jays where he was supposed to finally be a sure thing.

And then you need to factor the Yanks envision Hughes as a no.2 type pitcher (which hed be in the running for on just about every other team in the majors). And if so, how much for a long term no. 3 guy (and at 32 its hardly outlandish to see that that's where Lee may be soon). And then how much for the no.4 guy are they already paying for?

If the Yankees can keep throwing money at it then great but their biggest problem right now is age. Adding another long term guy that is on the wrong side of 30 that you will not be able to move if he crunbles in the bronx heat is not necessarily a no brainer.

A guy like Darvish...just like Chapman would have...would inject youth, energy, excitement and high skill to this franchise. Is he a guarantee? Not at all and Lee obviously is the more sure thing, but he is a 24 year old that can throw 6 different pitches extremely well and who has more than shown that he can handle the hoopla and scandal and spotlight thrown his way (as a Jeter like heart-throb/icon in Japan).

I would think the no.1 target would be Carl Crawford (with the Yankees moving Granderson, and cash, for some pitching help). A super talent that will play every day and make the Yankee lineup a nightmare to face and solidifies their defense.

No.2 target should be an elite setup man that can close if Rivera falters (Wood is not a long term option and may not be back next season, the Joba experiment is pretty much DOA, Robertson is just too erratic and there are no prospects on the near horizon that can take that role). Maybe Soriano as a FA...or maybe revive trade talks for Soria.

Then a middle of the rotation starter that can eat innings after that. A guy like Lilly would be perfect in that role. Or maybe see what the situation with guys with big contracts (but not near as big as what Lee wants) in terms of possibly trading for one.

[Pharmcat]

lee has shown he can pitch in big games

plus, the posting fee + contract for dravish will come close to what lee would cost

and at that rate, you take the more sure thing

[Pharmcat]

i look at the starting SP in the AL east

lester, buck, beckett, lackey, dice k

the tampa 5

even tor with romero, cecil, drabek, etc

we pretty much have CC and Phil, then lots of ? marks...imo Lee is needed to contend with those other staffs in the East

[Pharmcat]

something bout lee cant handle the big spot?

7ips 10 k

[Christophersp10]

Comparing Lee to Javy, Weaver and BJ. HAHAHAHAHA. Come on Moocow.


Weaver had decent tools back in 2002 but nobody expected huge things out of him.

Javy had been hit or miss every year the past decade. Only thing people expected this year was 200 innings and 150-200 k's which he averaged the past decade. People did expect him to take that next step after 2003 and came to NY.


BJ? He was viewed as big time injury prone before coming to NY.


Cliff Lee was the Cy Young in 2008. Was one of the top pitchers last year and almost carried the Phillies to the World Series. 2010 was more of the same and did well playing on a last place team and than in an extreme hitters park.

[thebuzzardman]

Sign Lee for the 2 spot, sign Darvish for the 5 spot.

CC, Lee, Hughes, Burnett, Darvish

[Pharmcat]

if andy retires, javy wont be back

thats 20 milll to play with

which is enough to get lee

factor in resigning mo, jeter

there is no $$$ to fork for darvish

[thebuzzardman]

This is the Yankees we be talking about bro.

There will be money,

[moocow007]

i look at the starting SP in the AL east

lester, buck, beckett, lackey, dice k

the tampa 5

even tor with romero, cecil, drabek, etc

we pretty much have CC and Phil, then lots of ? marks...imo Lee is needed to contend with those other staffs in the East

Then go for a middle of the rotation guy. Harden is worth a shot. Nova should be looked at as at least a no.5 guy.

[moocow007]

Comparing Lee to Javy, Weaver and BJ. HAHAHAHAHA. Come on Moocow.


Weaver had decent tools back in 2002 but nobody expected huge things out of him.

Come on...that's nonsense. Weaver (26 at the time) was heralded as one of the top young pitchers in baseball and a guy with no.1/2 type stuff that the Yanks envisioned as a cornerstone type for their rotation for a long time. They were getting him because they projected him to be able to develop into a no.1 type guy. HUGE things were expected from him. The fact that he flubbed as a Yankee can't be used to argue that he's nothing like Lee cause Lee hasn't pitched as a Yankee.

Javy had been hit or miss every year the past decade. Only thing people expected this year was 200 innings and 150-200 k's which he averaged the past decade. People did expect him to take that next step after 2003 and came to NY.

Vazquez was pictured to be the same as Weaver. A young (27 year old) that had great stuff (241 strikeouts to ONLY 49 walks in 230 innings with a, at the time, miniscule ERA of 3.24) that was viewed as a great get for the Yanks and someone that also had no.1 stuff. Him flubbing once he became a Yankee, has nothing to do with Lee since, again, has not pitched for the Yankees.

Cliff Lee was the Cy Young in 2008. Was one of the top pitchers last year and almost carried the Phillies to the World Series. 2010 was more of the same and did well playing on a last place team and than in an extreme hitters park.

Carl Pavano was in the discussion for the Cy Young the year before the Yanks got him...18-8 with a 3.00 ERA. Randy Johnson, a multiple Cy Young (and big game pitcher) was coming off a season where he had a ERA of 2.42, 290 strikeouts to 44 walks in 260 innings and a mind boggling 0.900 WHIP and who still managed to win 16 games despite being on a team that had a W-L record of 51-111. Just because they are good with other teams doesn't mean they can come in and be the same. What top pitcher, acuired from another team, has been able to replicate what they did once they became a Yankee? It took Roger Clemenst 2 full seasons before he got "comfortable" as a Yankee and even then he never managed to get to where he was before he became a Yankee.

The last guy that the Yankees acquired that managed to replicate what he did before he joined them was Catfish Hunter back in 1975 and he was 28 years old at the time.

And you cannot just shrug off 6 years $120 million for a guy that will be 33 years old before the end of the 1st year of that new contract and who has managed more than 14 wins in only 2 of his 9 years in the league.

Again...I'm not saying that Lee is going to bomb or that he wouldn't be nice to have but before we start having thoughts of a 2 Cy Young guys on the roster, a little bit of reality has to happen.

[Scalabrine]

I really can't imagine a scenario where Cliff Lee isn't a Yankee next year. The Yankees need a big time starter. After CC and Hughes, there is no one reliable on the staff. I don't think Pettitte is coming back after his injuries this year. The Yankees need to go out and get two starters. Lee and another innings eater that can pitch to a 4.00 era. -Jitpal

you consider the pitching in the AL East, the yanks NEED lee

the question is, do you go over 4 yrs to get him?

I really don't see another option. The other starters on the free agent market are 4's at best. The cream of that crop is Ted Lilly, who I think the Yankees should get to be their 5th starter. They still have that hole for the 2 or 3. Even if you look at the usual group of guys that are mentioned as trade candidates year in and year out, their asking prices are going to be astronomical. Would you trade something like Montero, Joba, Betances and Nova for a guy like Grienke? That's an insane price to pay, IMO, but that's what they are going to ask for. AJ Burnett really screws this whole thing up because you have to carry him on the rotation, you need the other 4 guys to cover up for at least half of his starts. You have to sign Lee. The Yankees should try and do 4/90 or 4/95 instead of 5/100 if they can avoid it. The rotation of CC/Hughes/Lee/Burnett/Lilly, is pretty good. -Jitpal

This is a head scratcher, why wouldnt you pay Lee 5 more million to pitch one more year if he would accept it.