Official Trade Thread XIV: 6/14/10 - 12/22/10

[Wizardspride]

just a comment on the Arenas situation and if he should stay or go....
Obviously the answer is long term he should go ...but short term we need to drive up his value.
Leonsis should tell him to keep his F'ing mouth shut so that he doesnt create more drama.

Personally, I don't think Gil needs to keep his "F'ing mouth shut", nor do I think he's creating drama.

But thats just me.

[gesa2]

I'd add that it's not "Obvious" that the Wizards should trade away their best player of the last 20 years when he still might be in his prime. Arguable, given recent events and injury history, but not obvious. As the heated debate here makes clear.

[LyricalRico]

WireTap mentions that the Pacers are looking for a 2-for-1 deal involving some of their wing players so they can get down to the roster limit without simply eating a contract. I'd be interested in Brandon Rush (assuming his option for 2011-12 isn't picked up). Not sure who we'd be giving up, though. Hudson? Future seconds? Can that even work under the cap?

Why Brandon Rush? He's an SG and he's horrible.

Ironically, that's my point. This is the year that we take chances on young guys who haven't been very good (Yi, Ammo, Armstrong) and they produce for us because they actually have a chance on a rebuilding team that's giving everybody a fresh start. I'm telling you, Rush would be probably be good here.

Matter of fact, any young player in the last year of his deal should be a target IMO. And we just shuffle through them all season long until we find the rest of our longterm core.

[Nivek]

just a comment on the Arenas situation and if he should stay or go....
Obviously the answer is long term he should go ...but short term we need to drive up his value.
Leonsis should tell him to keep his F'ing mouth shut so that he doesnt create more drama.

Personally, I don't think Gil needs to keep his "F'ing mouth shut", nor do I think he's creating drama.

But thats just me.

It's not just you. Gil's not creating drama, Wilbon is. In fact, when Gil saw how his comments were being misinterpreted, he called over Michael Lee and clarified what he meant specifically to defuse any drama.

[Dat2U]

Ironically, that's my point. This is the year that we take chances on young guys who haven't been very good (Yi, Ammo, Armstrong) and they produce for us because they actually have a chance on a rebuilding team that's giving everybody a fresh start. I'm telling you, Rush would be probably be good here.

Matter of fact, any young player in the last year of his deal should be a target IMO. And we just shuffle through them all season long until we find the rest of our longterm core.

That makes no sense to me. Why would you purposely go out and acquire lousy players just b/c their still on a rookie deal? These same guys will be out of the league in a year or too and some would have been out sooner if it wasn't for their previous draft standing.

Ammo doesn't belong. No discernible NBA talent. He's getting cut sooner than later.

Armstrong doesn't belong. No discernible NBA talent. He probably should get cut sooner than later.

I have no problems looking for diamonds in the rough. I guess you could make an argument that Yi is one of those guys. I can't really disagree with it although I have doubts and plenty of evidence that he's not very good, but at least the raw physical tools are there.

But in general, I'd prefer if Ernie looked more for the subtleties that make one a quality NBA player. High IQ, quality skill set, a modicum of mental & physical toughness. Instead it seems like Ernie is focused more on where a guy was drafted, as if that has some relevance to what player can do now.

[montestewart]

I have no problems looking for diamonds in the rough. I guess you could make an argument that Yi is one of those guys. I can't really disagree with it although I have doubts and plenty of evidence that he's not very good, but at least the raw physical tools are there.

But in general, I'd prefer if Ernie looked more for the subtleties that make one a quality NBA player. High IQ, quality skill set, a modicum of mental & physical toughness. Instead it seems like Ernie is focused more on where a guy was drafted, as if that has some relevance to what player can do now.

I think of diamonds in the rough more as players picked up from the developmental league or as FAs in training camp. Versus such players, Armstrong and Yi have fairly clear NBA track record to inform consideration. None of them have given me reason to think they will be quality NBA players, though Yi hopefully will prove me wrong. In concept, I don't mind the idea of the signings, and I (and others) have stated before that the later roster spots are places for taking such risks, but that doesn't mean fill all the spots up with such players.

Yesterday's game reminded me of EG's seeming aversion to adding players with interior toughness, and I don't mean length or former #1 picks, but smart, solid people that aren't afraid to get and hold position down low and use it to their advantage, regardless of their natural ability. That's why I was hoping they would find a way to keep Singleton, and it worries me when the team's three toughest players are probably it's guards and include a rookie. I hope EG is keeping his eyes open to try and address this imbalance.

[hands11]

Ironically, that's my point. This is the year that we take chances on young guys who haven't been very good (Yi, Ammo, Armstrong) and they produce for us because they actually have a chance on a rebuilding team that's giving everybody a fresh start. I'm telling you, Rush would be probably be good here.

Matter of fact, any young player in the last year of his deal should be a target IMO. And we just shuffle through them all season long until we find the rest of our longterm core.

That makes no sense to me. Why would you purposely go out and acquire lousy players just b/c their still on a rookie deal? These same guys will be out of the league in a year or too and some would have been out sooner if it wasn't for their previous draft standing.

Ammo doesn't belong. No discernible NBA talent. He's getting cut sooner than later.

Armstrong doesn't belong. No discernible NBA talent. He probably should get cut sooner than later.

I have no problems looking for diamonds in the rough. I guess you could make an argument that Yi is one of those guys. I can't really disagree with it although I have doubts and plenty of evidence that he's not very good, but at least the raw physical tools are there.

But in general, I'd prefer if Ernie looked more for the subtleties that make one a quality NBA player. High IQ, quality skill set, a modicum of mental & physical toughness. Instead it seems like Ernie is focused more on where a guy was drafted, as if that has some relevance to what player can do now.

except when its Wall at #1 then it matters

[verbal8]

But in general, I'd prefer if Ernie looked more for the subtleties that make one a quality NBA player. High IQ, quality skill set, a modicum of mental & physical toughness. Instead it seems like Ernie is focused more on where a guy was drafted, as if that has some relevance to what player can do now.

except when its Wall at #1 then it matters

But so was Kwame Brown. What matters is that Wall seems to have the physical and mental tools to succeed in the NBA. Kwame Brown did not, although you could make an argument that being the number 1 pick was a determent to Kwame Brown's development.

[fugop]

I'd really like to swing a deal with Houston, exchanging Yi for Patrick Patterson. There are obvious off-court reasons for both teams -- Yi profiting under Yao's tutelage, Houston cornering the China market; Patterson is from DC, a college teammate and mentor of Wall.

Patterson hasn't shown much in preseason, but has a solid track record as a college performer. Athletic specimen, intelligent, hard working. I doubt he'll be an amazing rebounder, but should be average or above, a hurdle Yi is unlikely to clear.

Yi adds some more size and versatility to Houston's front line, creating a versatile 5-big rotation for Houston, joining Yao, Miler, Hill, Scola.

[nate33]

I'd really like to swing a deal with Houston, exchanging Yi for Patrick Patterson. There are obvious off-court reasons for both teams -- Yi profiting under Yao's tutelage, Houston cornering the China market; Patterson is from DC, a college teammate and mentor of Wall.

Patterson hasn't shown much in preseason, but has a solid track record as a college performer. Athletic specimen, intelligent, hard working. I doubt he'll be an amazing rebounder, but should be average or above, a hurdle Yi is unlikely to clear.

Yi adds some more size and versatility to Houston's front line, creating a versatile 5-big rotation for Houston, joining Yao, Miler, Hill, Scola.

I like the idea a lot, but it's difficult to work out. First of all, there's the salary disparity. Houston would have to include "filler", of which they have very little. Secondly, and probably more importantly, Patterson is locked into a 4-year rookie contract. Yi is a free agent this summer. I don't see anybody giving up much value for a guy that they could just sign in the summer with the MLE.

Maybe something like this could work out:

Washington trades: Yi + Thornton
Houston trades: Jeffries + Patterson

At least that way, Houston saves about $2M instantly ($4M after luxtax considerations) and acquires a wing who can create his own shot. Jeffries might fit in well here as a role playing small forward who can thrive in Flip's zone while also helping on the glass.

[pineappleheadindc]

I'd really like to swing a deal with Houston, exchanging Yi for Patrick Patterson. There are obvious off-court reasons for both teams -- Yi profiting under Yao's tutelage, Houston cornering the China market; Patterson is from DC, a college teammate and mentor of Wall.

Patterson hasn't shown much in preseason, but has a solid track record as a college performer. Athletic specimen, intelligent, hard working. I doubt he'll be an amazing rebounder, but should be average or above, a hurdle Yi is unlikely to clear.

Yi adds some more size and versatility to Houston's front line, creating a versatile 5-big rotation for Houston, joining Yao, Miler, Hill, Scola.

I like the idea a lot, but it's difficult to work out. First of all, there's the salary disparity. Houston would have to include "filler", of which they have very little. Secondly, and probably more importantly, Patterson is locked into a 4-year rookie contract. Yi is a free agent this summer. I don't see anybody giving up much value for a guy that they could just sign in the summer with the MLE.

Maybe something like this could work out:

Washington trades: Yi + Thornton
Houston trades: Jeffries + Patterson

At least that way, Houston saves about $2M instantly ($4M after luxtax considerations) and acquires a wing who can create his own shot. Jeffries might fit in well here as a role playing small forward who can thrive in Flip's zone while also helping on the glass.

I would do this instantly. And I think Houston would benefit as well. Win-win.

[fishercob]

I don't think Houston touches this. Seriously, how do you think they would have reacted if the Nets had offered them Yi for the #14 pick pre-draft? Would their opinion change that much in a few short months with no actual NBA games being played?

[verbal8]

I don't think Houston touches this. Seriously, how do you think they would have reacted if the Nets had offered them Yi for the #14 pick pre-draft? Would their opinion change that much in a few short months with no actual NBA games being played?

I like the idea of trying to convert Yi's play into a cheaper deal with team control.

However I agree that Houston does not benefit much from this deal. 4 million is nice, but not worth giving up the potential of Patterson at this point and the cost savings of a rookie deal. If Patterson can't break into the rotation and Yi continues his solid play, this deal might make more sense during the season.

[nate33]

There's no question that Houston rejects this trade right now. The ONLY way it makes any sense at all is later in the year if Yi plays well and Patterson doesn't get much playing time because of Houston's deep bench.

[Hoopalotta]

If Nate had come up with this idea out of the blue, I'd think he was just looking to get the Yi shrine locked up.

As noted though, I think we'd have to stuff some more candy into the pinata.

It is true that Hill and Patterson together is getting a bit redundant as a developmental tandem, especially as I'm pretty sure Jeffries plays mostly power forward these days.

[Ruzious]

If Nate had come up with this idea out of the blue, I'd think he was just looking to get the Yi shrine locked up.

As noted though, I think we'd have to stuff some more candy into the pinata.

It is true that Hill and Patterson together is getting a bit redundant as a developmental tandem, especially as I'm pretty sure Jeffries plays mostly power forward these days.

But come trade deadline time, it might be appealing to Houston - if they want to add a veteran big forward with some finesse to blend with the thumping of Yao and Scola up front in their playoff run. And it'd help that Yao and Yi have played together.

The Wiz will have to make a decision by then on whether or not they want Yi as part of their future at the price he'll command. If not, they should look to see what his trade value will be. Because he's not a physical player - and the Wiz need more physicality, I'd lean toward trading him after bumping up his trade value. A sign and trade after the season is also an option.

[Dat2U]

If Nate had come up with this idea out of the blue, I'd think he was just looking to get the Yi shrine locked up.

As noted though, I think we'd have to stuff some more candy into the pinata.

It is true that Hill and Patterson together is getting a bit redundant as a developmental tandem, especially as I'm pretty sure Jeffries plays mostly power forward these days.

I could Houston going for a Jordan Hill/Yi swap but not Patterson. Problem is, Hill isn't very good either plus he's got another year on his deal. I'm not sure that benefits us. I called Jordan Hill the next Tyrone Hill coming out of college but I didn't imagine Jordan having so much trouble reaching those lofty standards. Honestly he looks like the next Mikki Moore instead.

[verbal8]

If Nate had come up with this idea out of the blue, I'd think he was just looking to get the Yi shrine locked up.

As noted though, I think we'd have to stuff some more candy into the pinata.

It is true that Hill and Patterson together is getting a bit redundant as a developmental tandem, especially as I'm pretty sure Jeffries plays mostly power forward these days.

I could Houston going for a Jordan Hill/Yi swap but not Patterson. Problem is, Hill isn't very good either plus he's got another year on his deal. I'm not sure that benefits us. I called Jordan Hill the next Tyrone Hill coming out of college but I didn't imagine Jordan having so much trouble reaching those lofty standards. Honestly he looks like the next Mikki Moore instead.

I think Jordan Hill would not be a bad acquisition. I looked through the rosters and looked for 2nd year players who might be available and fill a potential need for the Wizards.

I only found 4 guys who would definitely fill the criteria.
CHI James Johnson
MEM Sam Young, Darrell Arthur
ORL Ryan Anderson

These guys are likely available, but their potential is questionable:
DAL Ajnica
PHO Earl Clark

These guys probably aren't available:
PHI Speights
OKC Ibaka, Mullens
SAC Donte Greene

[hands11]

Gil needs to make some new friends on the team because the main player that I think they want to move is Nick.

I see them continuing work on signing Yi. I don't think he is leaving.

I could also see them maybe moving AT. Three more pre-seasons game to see what he can do.

But as long as Nick can only score and not rebound or assist, I don't want him here. Specially when he is as loopy as he is. We already have Gil and McGee for that.

What is under rated is having smart guys on your team.

Wall seems like a really smart kid. So does Kirk. Haywood was smart which is one reason I miss him being here.

[verbal8]

I see them continuing work on signing Yi. I don't think he is leaving.

If Yi displays a reasonable approximation of what he has done in the pre-season, they might keep him on the tender offer. I think it is overpaying slightly, but it gives both sides some flexibility.

But as long as Nick can only score and not rebound or assist, I don't want him here. Specially when he is as loopy as he is.

I think Nick Young could help some teams. However the issue with dealing him is there is no other player with SG size on the Wizard's roster. There will be some nights when the Wizards will need a big SG who can play defense.