Salt Lake City sheds the "bad" free agent label?

BarneyGumble · Post #1 » by **BarneyGumble** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 7:20 pm

I dont want to be the homer so I am legitimately asking you guys for feedback on the trend I think I am seeing, which is:

Free agents no longer see the Utah Jazz as a black hole. In the Stockton/Malone days, it was well understood that they were hall of fame players who will win season in and season out, yet we had difficulty getting quality free agents here. We even had guys refuse trades AFTER the trades were made to come here!

Now I see this:

-Wes Matthews publicly regrets not getting something worked out with the Jazz. He almost made getting $35 million seem like it was the second choice to coming back to Utah for less. I really believe him when he says this.

-Ronnie Brewer publicly regrets not getting something worked out with the Jazz. There is an article on fanhouse and elsewhere if you care to search for it, but Brewer explained in detail his contract negotiations with the Jazz. They offered him CJ money and he felt he had earned more than CJ money so he refused and Utah never offered anything else. He seems very contrite not to be playing here. The quotes I read made the Bulls signing seem like a disappointment to him when he really wanted to be back in SLC.

-Earl Watson praising the Jazz for their winning ways, saying he cant wait to win again.

-Bell turns down Kobe and the Lakers for a second stint with the Jazz.

-AK says he wants to stay in Utah, even when his experience here would have people here think he is eager to hit the FA market and leave.

Heck even Mike James was lobbying for a chance to play with us. Lets remember that players want money, and winning or stats or a combination of both is the ticket to a fat contract. Players have probably looked at the Matthews' of the world and seen that a talented guy who can get minutes for the Jazz has a chance to win and get paid. What do you think?

awesomator · Post #2 » by **awesomator** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 7:42 pm

-Wes Matthews publicly regrets not getting something worked out with the Jazz. He almost made getting $35 million seem like it was the second choice to coming back to Utah for less. I really believe him when he says this.

I can think of 35 million reasons not to believe him. Why would he say anything else, the Jazz may want to give him 35 million reasons to come back to Utah later in his career.

The Utah/FA thing is overblown. You offer the same money as Minnesota and a free agent will pick Utah every time. You offer same money as Miami and they will pick Miami every time. Wouldn't you? Why is that a slight against Utah?

QuantumMacgyver · Post #3 » by **QuantumMacgyver** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 8:00 pm

awesomator wrote:
-Wes Matthews publicly regrets not getting something worked out with the Jazz. He almost made getting $35 million seem like it was the second choice to coming back to Utah for less. I really believe him when he says this.

I can think of 35 million reasons not to believe him. Why would he say anything else, the Jazz may want to give him 35 million reasons to come back to Utah later in his career.

The Utah/FA thing is overblown. You offer the same money as Minnesota and a free agent will pick Utah every time. You offer same money as Miami and they will pick Miami every time. Wouldn't you? Why is that a slight against Utah?

Are you saying that Wes Mathews' publicly regretting not getting something done with the Jazz has something to do with getting $35 million from Portland? Wouldn't that be completely counter productive?

And the difference with the Minnesota/Jazz thing is that last decade players WOULD have chosen 'Sota over Utah. That's how bad our image was. Remember the Players Poll where the NBA players were polled as to where they would MOST/LEAST like to play... Utah was second only to Toronto on the LEAST side.

dalekjazz · Post #4 » by **dalekjazz** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 8:22 pm

People who have played in Utah apparently love it. Guys like Bell, Eisley, Ostertag, Bailey, Edwards, and Benoit have returned to play in Utah. Mikki Moore is always saying he wants to return to Utah. Al Jefferson says playing in Utah is like owing a Bentley. You should read Darryl Dawkins' autobiography. Apparently he loved his short stint in Utah. Even though John Amaechi was a bad fit he chose Utah over the Lakers. I think Benoit was also drawing interest from the Lakers when the Jazz signed him. HOF player Dr. J has a home in Utah.

Batu7 · Post #5 » by **Batu7** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 8:24 pm

Until a sought after free agent says the things you mentioned, I'll stick with Utah being a bad place for a FA.

dalekjazz · Post #6 » by **dalekjazz** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 8:26 pm

Batu7 wrote:Until a sought after free agent says the things you mentioned, I'll stick with Utah being a bad place for a FA.

Your fellow countryman Mehmet Okur chose to extend with the Jazz instead of trying out the free agent market. He also left Detroit for Utah.

BarneyGumble · Post #7 » by **BarneyGumble** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 8:33 pm

awesomator wrote:The Utah/FA thing is overblown. You offer the same money as Minnesota and a free agent will pick Utah every time. You offer same money as Miami and they will pick Miami every time. Wouldn't you? Why is that a slight against Utah?

Well I see your argument but it is not sound. John Stockton was offered a contract that amounted to $10mm/year by Pat Riley to join the Heat when he was a free agent in the late 90's and Stockton declined and resigned with the Jazz for around $4 million per year.

Riles asked the Stock why he turned the money down. Plus it was not like the Heat were chumps, they were getting to the ECF in those days. Stock's reply was "what can I do with $10mm that I can't do with $4mm?"

Basically, Stockton took less money to stay in Utah. I know he's an extreme example of loyalty etc, but doesn't that basically end the argument of

You offer same money as Miami and they will pick Miami every time.

???

Catchall · Post #8 » by **Catchall** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 9:19 pm

Utah can be attractive to free agents, but it depends on what the player is looking for.

A young guy who likes to go to clubs and enjoy the big-city life, probably wouldn't make Utah a priority, but players who don't really need that would consider Utah.

A big-name player who wants a lot of media attention, like Bosh, Amare, LeBron, Carmello, etc. wouldn't come to Utah because it's not a big media market.

But players who don't need to be the center of attention and who want to concentrate on playing good ball and maximizing their abilities as a player would consider places like Utah, San Antonio, Oklahoma City and Orlando because they have stable organizations, good coaches and systems that generally make players successful.

Utah's reputation as a quiet, conservative city in the mountains hasn't changed, but probably it's no longer next-to-last on the free-agent destination list. Places like Milwaukee, San Antonio, Detroit and Oklahoma City aren't exactly shangri-la.

seejaydeja · Post #9 » by **seejaydeja** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 10:03 pm

I like Bell and all but I'm pretty sure the reason he signed with Jazz was because of the money. I don't even think LA was going to give him half of what we gave him.

Leithid · Post #10 » by **Leithid** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 10:20 pm

seejaydeja wrote:I like Bell and all but I'm pretty sure the reason he signed with Jazz was because of the money. I don't even think LA was going to give him half of what we gave him.

The Bulls were offering him $8 mil for 2 years, but he signed with the Jazz for $10 mil for 3 years. I guess he just wanted to retire somewhere he liked.

Batu7 · Post #11 » by **Batu7** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 10:46 pm

dalekjazz wrote:
Batu7 wrote:Until a sought after free agent says the things you mentioned, I'll stick with Utah being a bad place for a FA.

Your fellow countryman Mehmet Okur chose to extend with the Jazz instead of trying out the free agent market. He also left Detroit for Utah.

I wasn't following the NBA very closely when Okur came to Utah. What offers did he get besides ours and how much was he offered?

Batu7 · Post #12 » by **Batu7** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 10:55 pm

Leithid wrote:
The Bulls were offering him $8 mil for 2 years, but he signed with the Jazz for $10 mil for 3 years. I guess he just wanted to retire somewhere he liked.

According to LakersBlog(http://lakersblog.latimes.com/lakersblo ... akers.html), Bell only earned $27 million in his career. He might have thought that it was his last contract(Which probably is) and chose to make the most money out of it.

nyjazz · Post #13 » by **nyjazz** » Thu Oct 14, 2010 12:00 am

What's not to like about the Jazz? Top notch organization, loyal to players, willing to spend $, winning team, maybe the best coaching staff in the league, great players, team oriented game plan, decent climate, etc. Maybe not the best place if you are already an established star or a clearly emerging star with a big "public" profile hoping to maximize marketing $, but for the rest of the NBA players (not counting me-too shoot first knuckleheads, potheads, and wanna-be-in-a-music video nightclubbers), it is probably a great environment to maximize your potential and extend your career as long as possible.

outerspacefella · Post #14 » by **outerspacefella** » Thu Oct 14, 2010 1:01 am

Where's the only franchise where wives go public about "allownace gifts" and there's full of threads everywhere about polygamy? Cmon guys... boring place? Don't be ludicrous!

Post #15 » by **DelaneyRudd** » Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:34 am

The idea guys don't like it here isn't true. The bigger issue for top free agents is the outside money options and being so huge a local celebrity you can't walk around. There's no reason to think SLC is any different than Portland or OKC. There's 4 places that are above it all for those issues, the rest are all the same.

UTJazzFan_Echo1 · Post #16 » by **UTJazzFan_Echo1** » Thu Oct 14, 2010 4:32 am

I certainly think having D-Will along with a hall of fame coach helps us a lot. I think guys are attracted to to playing with Deron a lot more than they would like to admit. It's also helped that a lot of the guys who come here to play end up really enjoying being here. Utah is not nearly as bad of a place to live as everyone makes it out to be, especially when you are an NBA player and don't want to be bugged. I think the word is getting out about how awesome it really is to live and play here. We always win, we always have a top tier crowd and it's a really nice place to raise a family; it's also one of the fastest growing cities in the United States...

Leithid · Post #17 » by **Leithid** » Thu Oct 14, 2010 7:06 am

It also helps a lot that Utah has the best looking girls (assuming the player in question likes girls, of course).

nguyenbalong · Post #18 » by **nguyenbalong** » Thu Oct 14, 2010 7:45 am

I see utah as a great state and slc as a great city. I mean we are one of the top five fastest growing cities in the US. Businesses have been flooding in to our state. Jobs are stable and the population is on the rise. Also as mentioned we are also one of the top cities with the hottest girls ( might be a distraction but will serve as a motivation for the rookies). I think players are more attracted to the big markets because of the publicity and money. The bigger the market the more cameras flashing and the more you make the news. We did tender a qualifying offer to Mathews. It just happens that the Blazers just had a deeper pocket and we just didn't have the financial flexibility at the time. Mathews contract isn't too bad but the bonus attached to it was. Players like Stockton who turn down 10 mil to sign with utah for 4 mill are extinct. If Wes really wanted to stay im sure we would of offered him atleast 3 mill. Some players live to bask in the spot light, like the three stooges in Miami and there are times when money dictates everything like in Boozers case.

Ming Kong! · Post #19 » by **Ming Kong!** » Fri Oct 15, 2010 4:28 pm

I was looking at the skyline on wikipedia..
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... e_City.jpg

Man SLC barely looks like a city. I live in Miami, and have traveled around the world, and honestly this has to be one of the least urban cities I've ever seen. The city is the 127th largest city in the country, so it's pretty average if anything. Don't even give me this metro crap, cause that probably covers an area 10 times the actual city.

That said, I think the city grows on the players, and along with great management/staff, players become loyal to the organization/city. Players outside obviously judge the city as boring, but I couldn't blame them, I think half the cities in the NBA are more interesting, with many having nature, beaches, etc in close proximity as well.

Post #20 » by **jazzfan1971** » Fri Oct 15, 2010 5:49 pm

DWill_daShizzle wrote:"what can I do with $10mm that I can't do with $4mm?"

Hire a 1000.00 prostitute every day for 16+ years. Or invested well (with a return of 6% after taxes and fees) you could have a 1000.00 prostitute every day forever.

I guess you could find other ways to spend 1000.00 a day. But, I'm thinking this is the best bang for your buck.