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Nets in Beijing

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Re: Nets in Beijing 

Post#21 » by 60cent » Wed Oct 13, 2010 5:35 pm

demens wrote:Chucker Twitteville.

I said it was not a good sign the 1st time it (20 shots) happened way back at the end of last season. Twitt is now a legit chucker. Was 9/13 finished 0/7. If i'm not mistaken all 9 makes were floaters/jumpers not 1 made lay-up. Horrific finisher. 1 trip to the line in 20 shot attempts.

On a positive note he only had 2 turnovers. Then again, he too busy being a chucker, not trying to make plays at all, just 1 assist.

Its also sad at how low our standard for the 3r overall pick are. He looks incompetent on offense, like someone who doesn't play basketball at all. But hey, he didnt foul out, all we want him is to play defense and not foul out right? Well he did that, so Favors had a good game.



:lol:

20 pts (including a 3 pointer), 8 rbs, 1 ast. Thats all i can say right now. If i say more, i'll be crucified here.
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Re: Nets in Beijing 

Post#22 » by demens » Wed Oct 13, 2010 6:05 pm

20 points on 20 shots. and no 3 pointer.
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Re: Nets in Beijing 

Post#23 » by jeff1624 » Wed Oct 13, 2010 6:07 pm

Didn't see the game, but it seems to me that we lost because nobody outside of Harris, lopez and Williams did anything. T-Will taking 20 shots to score 20 points isn't all too bad since he did shoot 45%.. the problem was his lack of FT's.. and that's always a killer when you're a scorer.
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Re: Nets in Beijing 

Post#24 » by kamaze » Wed Oct 13, 2010 6:15 pm

Eleqtrique wrote:T-Will doesn't wait for the offense to get in a flow, he's also faster than the move he wants to make. He's beating himself nine out of ten times. He'd miss those shots even if there was no one there to guard him. Didn't try to get the others involved. Not the type of guard play you want with a young rookie on the floor.

We all know he has the skill, he just needs a good beating.


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Re: Nets in Beijing 

Post#25 » by kamaze » Wed Oct 13, 2010 6:18 pm

60cent wrote:
demens wrote:Its also sad at how low our standard for the 3r overall pick are. He looks incompetent on offense, like someone who doesn't play basketball at all. But hey, he didnt foul out, all we want him is to play defense and not foul out right? Well he did that, so Favors had a good game.


Favors looked horrible.
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Re: Nets in Beijing 

Post#26 » by demens » Wed Oct 13, 2010 6:18 pm

jeff1624 wrote:Didn't see the game, but it seems to me that we lost because nobody outside of Harris, lopez and Williams did anything. T-Will taking 20 shots to score 20 points isn't all too bad since he did shoot 45%.. the problem was his lack of FT's.. and that's always a killer when you're a scorer.


.....is always bad.
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Re: Nets in Beijing 

Post#27 » by vincecarter4pres » Wed Oct 13, 2010 7:12 pm

Just got done watching this.

I would like to say, Brook Lopez looks absolutely fantastic on offense, no exaggeration.

I can't stress enough how good he would look with an elite point guard like Chris Paul or Deron Williams. He would look like a MVP candidate. Even pairing him with an elite playmaking wing and it would be over, he is that good. Too bad those players don't grow on trees. His improvement from last year to this is immense.

On defense he didn't look very good. I remember thinking he would be a defensive anchor his rookie season, I don't know what I was thinking. He puts in solid effort, he just isn't a good defensive player. He's not bad, but he's not good. Solid shot blocker of course, but overall pretty mediocre on that side of the ball. I think he can improve to slightly above average if he puts the work in and pays more attention to rotations, but he'll never shine on that side of the ball IMO.

T Will looked great in the first half, terrible in the 2nd. He's such an enigma.

I don't know what to say about Favors. It's not even that he looked bad, but he was an afterthought. It was almost like he wasn't out there most of the time he was in the game.

Trout looked good when he spotted up for 3's, but his iso's were pretty bad. He can be a ball stopper a lot of the time, reminds me of a poor man's Rudy Gay with a better outside shot, which is exactly what I remember from his Portland days.

Morrow didn't get much burn or many shots, his putrid defense had to play a part in that, but I expected that, he was always a terrible defender. He doesn't have the physical tools or athleticism to defend and he's pretty clueless as well.

Devin looked pretty good all around, but I can't help but think he's in for another injury plagued season with his reckless style. I didn't feel like he forced it or chucked and didn't even realize he took 13 shots, nor hit only 5 of them until I checked the box score. He ran the offense pretty well overall and got others involved. One glaring weakness was his crappy pick and roll play. He seemed to have a pretty good connection with Brook from that aspect the last couple seasons, but they didn't go to that very often and he hesitated to give up the ball too many times and went the wrong way on the screen a few times. He just doesn't execute it well unless looking for his own shot or when Brook winds up wide open rolling to the hoop. I will say his defense looked quite good. That was a welcome surprise.

Farmar looked pretty good on a couple steals, but again, he looked terrible running the show, even as a backup. I wasn't a fan of the signing when we got him and haven't seen anything to change my mind. I so would have preferred Luke Ridnour. He's just not a very good point guard and at best a mediocre all around player.
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Re: Nets in Beijing 

Post#28 » by Talentfull » Wed Oct 13, 2010 11:10 pm

I can agree with the "Brook is not bad but he's not good defensively" argument. He looked just about average defensively in this game...not really a game changer on that side of the ball. I can accept the fact that he's not gonna have Duncan/Howard type impact on defense but his defensive rebounding needs to be much better than he's showing. On the flip side his offense like you said has been absolutely beautiful...Really liked how he got Yao with the same move twice..once for a dunk and the other for an easy lay in.

Also, I'd definitely like to see more from Favors...he's probably gonna come off the bench next game. Seeing how Avery decided to start Humps in the 2nd.
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Re: Nets in Beijing 

Post#29 » by demens » Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:13 am

Where is this improvement you're talking about? He was good on offense last year. His biggest flaws where passing out of doubles and holding post position.

To be fair, this was the 1st time (just 2 televised games) that we saw Brook doubled. Didnt look like he handled it all that well. Also while he made some nice moves on Yao, he had trouble with Jeffries. Reverted into PF mode and starting driving from the perimeter on a few plays. While its nice that he is capable of doing that, i'd prefer he put Jeffries in the basket along with the ball, its Jerred freaking Jeffries, the guy is a good defender.....for sf/pf, he is not suppose to even be on Brook.

I'm thinking about making a thread about what will become of Brook this season. Kind of a part 2 to my Brook is a complimentary player thread from the other site. I think Avery might have a different role in store for him. Think Dirk....sort of.
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Re: Nets in Beijing 

Post#30 » by vincecarter4pres » Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:51 am

demens wrote:Where is this improvement you're talking about? He was good on offense last year. His biggest flaws where passing out of doubles and holding post position.

To be fair, this was the 1st time (just 2 televised games) that we saw Brook doubled. Didnt look like he handled it all that well. Also while he made some nice moves on Yao, he had trouble with Jeffries. Reverted into PF mode and starting driving from the perimeter on a few plays. While its nice that he is capable of doing that, i'd prefer he put Jeffries in the basket along with the ball, its Jerred freaking Jeffries, the guy is a good defender.....for sf/pf, he is not suppose to even be on Brook.

I'm thinking about making a thread about what will become of Brook this season. Kind of a part 2 to my Brook is a complimentary player thread from the other site. I think Avery might have a different role in store for him. Think Dirk....sort of.

Dude, I don't understand how you can't see the improvement, it's like night and day.
He has a plethora of new moves and scored in a variety of ways from all over the court.

He handled all but one or two of the double teams well and one of them he was trapped for like 4 or 5 seconds before he turned it over and NOBODY came to the ball to help. There were two options, hold onto the ball and hope like hell it doesn't get stolen/he doesn't turn it over, or burn a timeout at a non-critical time in the game.

He still seems to have a little problem with shot selection and forcing it, but you can't argue when they are falling more then they are missing and the supposed shooters on your team are going 3 for 9, 1 for 4 and 2 for 6 and the cutters are not moving enough or coming to the ball.
I would rather he's forcing some shots in the paint then other random scrubs like Trout isoing 21 feet from the hoop and shooting a J with a hand in their face.

He definitely was holding position better as well.

As for the Jeffries comment, he guards centers on the regular, it isn't something new or seldom seen, so if you're actng surprised you haven't seen him play the last few seasons.

After all that is said, he isn't perfect or anywhere close by any means, but again you seem to be having tunnel vision thinking young players are finished products after 1 or 2 seasons and you again are reverting to your preconceived notions about Brook. Your mind seems to be made up and you won't change it unless dude is showing his ass Tim Duncan style, which is unfair expectations.

Is it a guarantee he is going to be a star? No. But I fully believe he will.

Is he or will he ever be a legitimate 1st option? Probably not, but there really isn't such a thing as a 1st option big man anymore on a strong playoff or winning team in today's guard and wing, perimeter orientated and fueled league. Even most 20ppg + scoring big men aren't normally 1st options anymore, again, at least on winning or strong playoff teams.
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Re: Nets in Beijing 

Post#31 » by 60cent » Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:53 am

That 20 pts, 8 pts, 1 ast stat is actually Cousins, Demens. I didnt want to start any argument about them thats why i refused to say his name first. I just dont want to sound like a broken record and kept praising Cousins instead of being patient for Favors. I understand he is a project but when i focus on his game alone, i just never see anything special for me to say "oh, this guy is gonna be special someday", and thats even when he was in college (in game, of course, not the spectacular dunks). I dont see the passion, the aggressiveness, the feel for the game and anticipation. To be honest, Hump is much better defensively, even just the help defense.

Sorry guys but i have to say it, and i know its just the preseason but at least he has to show me something that will make me believe he will be somebody. Heck, i dont even think he is a project.

He is going to be a bust and im not afraid to say it. I may not be as smart as you guys when it comes to transactions or any other thing thats going on inside basketball but i know my basketball and i know a bust and an allstar in the making when i see one.

Damn, im being so negative... This isnt me and i dont want to be one but im not excite myself only to get disappointed AGAIN in the future. Sorry.
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Re: Nets in Beijing 

Post#32 » by vincecarter4pres » Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:59 am

Don't stress it too much, there's a very high chance Favors isn't on this team for more then a season anyway...
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Re: Nets in Beijing 

Post#33 » by demens » Thu Oct 14, 2010 3:09 am

Nuggs dont even want him anymore.)

He is playing exactly how i expected him to play. I kept saying it before the draft, he showed NOTHING, NO BASKETBALL SKILL what so ever in college. Rebounding and blocking a shot for a guy like him is not a skill, its as natural as farting. I have no clue what some of you were looking at talking about how he is not "AS raw" or he has a decent 15 footer, or that he has post move, all i can say is HA.

But i'm actually not down on him yet, since i did not expect ANYTHING from him this year at all, especially after the way he average like 1 foul per minute in SL and the 1st few games of pre-season. Now i really am optimistic with him staying on the court for 20-25 min and not fouling out. He has decent defensive instincts, if he can not foul he will be at least a factor on D.

Healthy Kmart is not a bad comparison. With all things considered, that might not be the worst thing, especially if Brook is the scorer, might be a decent pair.
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Re: Nets in Beijing 

Post#34 » by vincecarter4pres » Thu Oct 14, 2010 4:17 am

I would be thrilled with a player comparable to a healthy Kmart, especially if he was a better rebounder, but Kmart was more laterally quick and could guard guys down to point guards for short spurts. He also has a more fiery personality and was a gifted passer.

We'll see though, kids still crazy young and has nowhere to go but up.

Don't look at me too much though, although I felt Favors was the better pick for fit and trade value, I was one of the one's defending Cousins pretty hard on here as far back as last college season on the draft board and the whole way through the draft thread on here, I just was honest about his glaring negatives as well.
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Re: Nets in Beijing 

Post#35 » by mikhailjordan » Thu Oct 14, 2010 4:31 am

Cousins has the green light to shoot everytime he touches the ball right now. Favors is timid. Regardless we all knew Cousins was more NBA ready than Favors. Not sure what the big surprise is with how the two have performed comparatively to date...
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Re: Nets in Beijing 

Post#36 » by vincecarter4pres » Thu Oct 14, 2010 4:33 am

I don't think there really is any surprise, but people are just discussing what they are witnessing firsthand whether we expected it or not.
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Re: Nets in Beijing 

Post#37 » by demens » Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:36 pm

I think you guys are not being honestly if you say you expected 34%fg and 33%ft. I know the he was not expected to contribute much, but he looks like a joke on offense, he really does, like Adam Morrison joke. Kwame Brown literally looked better his rookie year.


Cousins may have the green light, but he is showing he certainly deserves it. 45%fg is the only shot you can take at him, and even thats not all that bad for a rookie. 16/10 is impressive.

I wonder how different our trade proposal for Melo would have looked if he went with Cousins over Favors. Since fit was the big issues how about Brook? I dont think he would be as untouchable.

May seem silly too, but what if we payed Amare that money?

If we somehow knew there was no shot at Lebron, maybe if we had some kind of connection to him through a friend or something. And some how predicted the Melo drama would go down. I think Brook+1st+cap (that we had a **** load of) and throw ins like Hayes and Ross for Melo. Thats with Amare already on the team i think Denver and Melo sign off on that deal in a heartbeat.

Harris
Lee/Twitt
Melo/James
Amare/Humph
Cousins or Favors

Then maybe Harris+Cousins for CP3?

I'm not mad at the Nets for making the decisions they did, seemingly doing the "safe" thing. I think the Nix will regret that contract Amare got in time, but if it gets them Melo next summer then maybe they wont. And if Favors turns into a bust and Outlaw/Petro keep playing like they have so far it will be 1 last master **** up by Thorn on his way out the door.
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Re: Nets in Beijing 

Post#38 » by vincecarter4pres » Thu Oct 14, 2010 4:40 pm

I would never have parted with Brook for Melo, but you do raise an interesting point/question.

If we had signed Amar'e, would Melo have already signed off on us?

Although I have stated I think it's a 3 part reason why we don't have Melo on this team, one of those 3 reasons is I believe Melo hasn't signed off on us as of yet.

I believe he is still seriously considering us, but if he was completely cool with it, I still have to believe we would have found a way to get it done already.
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Re: Nets in Beijing 

Post#39 » by 60cent » Thu Oct 14, 2010 4:45 pm

Very good post Demens.

Kwame was also a project and he looked better. The only thing thats saving Favors are its still too early and he's the 3rd pick overall. If he was the 1st, believe me, he would've been criticized left and right. Its not hard to evaluate a player if he has a future in basketball, even just in the playground you can tell who is good or will be good and who's not.

As far as Cousins, it a very good point. What if he was our pick, would it have been easier for us to get Melo? Maybe or maybe not. But imho, the Nuggets would be more intrigue and it will be eaiser for us to trade him because we already have Lopez in that same spot. Im not gonna prolly trade Lopez but i wil look into it, esp. by Feb trade deadline.

Nix can always have Amare. Not too fond of him.

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