SOTD: All Stats from Philly game

[BorisDK1]

- Positioning is another problem, as he should be in the passing lane, and wait for others to recover. He needs to learn how to play as a team, and stop thinking one on one. He needs to switch back as soon as possible as well. If he is switched and standing next to an off ball player no where near the ball and -the paint, then he is wrong. He should go double team, and disallow others to attack from the paint.

In the NBA, it's exceedingly rare to play on-the-line/up-the-line. Jay's trying it for now, but generally you play at least a half-step and usually more behind the line of the ball. To say "he should be in the passing lane" really depends upon how various actions are being defended: catch-all rules are seldom employed in the NBA.

And as true as most of your assertions are, it's clear to me (at any rate) that they aren't derived from last night's game.

[JJWong17]

Yeah I think Bargnani is just a terrible match up for Brand.

[Courtside]

Thanks again Boris - that's great stuff.

Kleiza concerns me a little, but we are experimenting a fair bit and I suspect they feel more comfortable about what he'll bring and need to see what others can do.

As for Bargs - I can only hope that when his offense does come around, that he's still putting in this kind of showing defensively. It used to be that when his shot was off he zoned out of the game, but if he's able to have a defensive impact regardless of how he's scoring, it will help our growth as a team.

[Chpwags]

Bargnani seems to own Brand everytime they match up. Brand can't seem to back Bargnani down, every shot is altered because of Bargnani's length and isn't quick enough to get by him facing up. His only real offense against Bargnani comes from long jump shots. We didn't even have to send Bargnani any help when he was being posted up. Brand is the type of player we need Bargnani to be covering to maximize what we get out of him defensively. When he covers people who are shooting and driving threats all the way out to the 3 point line he has a lot more ground to cover and seems to get trapped out at the 3 point line. We really need to keep him closer to the basket he is better with rotating and providing help when he doesn't have to run in from the 3 point line.

[BorisDK1]

One thing I'd like to remind people of is the %DPs statistic. Last game, Philadelphia painted a great big bulls-eye on Reggie Evans and attacked him mercilessly. Reggie did okay holding up to that, he had a decent stop% thanks in large part to his three steals. Unfortunately, he did give up a lot of points (on way too many layups) but at the end of the day was efficient enough to keep the team competitive.

The average %DPs is .200 (1 ball / 5 players = .2), so when you see players dealing with well over 20% of the team's possessions (never mind over 30% like Reggie did), you know they're getting picked on in a big, bad way. That, or they're really active and coming up with a lot of plays.

[J-Roc]

Need more info on this %DPs stat. So this stat only adds up if they go after that particular player, not just if he's on the floor?

So they went after Reggie. They went after Jack and Jose equally. And they didn't go after Bargs much. And wrt to Bargs, does %DPs add up if he's supposed to be the help defender, but doesn't help?

[BrickHeads]

What a Solid Solid Solid effort....by BDK.

These stats align with what I saw. Bargs played godawful Offensively, but was pretty solid on defence.

I think all of us would take that any day of the week.

[RapsFanInOhio]

Need more info on this %DPs stat. So this stat only adds up if they go after that particular player, not just if he's on the floor?

So they went after Reggie. They went after Jack and Jose equally. And they didn't go after Bargs much. And wrt to Bargs, does %DPs add up if he's supposed to be the help defender, but doesn't help?

Thats kind of one of the questions I have about all these stats... how do you determine a stat like defensive stops? There's a lot of things that go into defense.. its more of a team concept than an individual one (although there are times where its strictly one on one, especially in the NBA). Or how could you justify using stats when a player is playing excellent defense on a guy that can't miss a shot? Or when a player filters his man towards the help but the help isn't there?

Also, (Boris) are you just watching film and coming up with these numbers yourself? Or are you getting the numbers from somewhere else and then plugging them in? Some stuff could be subjective.. for example, if Jack and Barbosa switch on a screen (opposing SG sets one for opposing PG) with Jack being the PG and Barbosa the SG (Jack now guarding the opposing team's SG, and Barbosa on the PG). What happens if the opposing PG scores? Do you count that against Barbosa or Jack? What happens when the screen that's set is a very good one, and the players get tangled up and its not really one person's fault, its both? Who does that get counted against?

Not discrediting your work at all, I'm just curious as to how all these numbers are calculated.

[Alfred]

Yeah I think Bargnani is just a terrible match up for Brand.

I was at the game, and I can confirm that. Bargnani was eating Brand's lunch on the defensive end. Bargnani took advantage of the huge height discrepancy.

[BorisDK1]

Need more info on this %DPs stat. So this stat only adds up if they go after that particular player, not just if he's on the floor?

So they went after Reggie. They went after Jack and Jose equally. And they didn't go after Bargs much. And wrt to Bargs, does %DPs add up if he's supposed to be the help defender, but doesn't help?

%DPs is the percentage of the team's possessions that a player faces individually while on the floor only.

I can't access the .pdf file at the moment due to firewall restrictions at work, but I don't think I've ever seen anybody face as many possessions relative to the team as Reggie did in that game. Maybe in cases of guys playing very few minutes, but not with as much time as Reggie.

As for your last question, it depends. It depends what he is or isn't getting done. In two-man games (screening situations, dribble handoffs, etc) and he's allowing scores in that action, then yes, a full or partial FGA will be tagged to him which will count towards his possessions faced and thus increase his %DPs. In driving situations where others are getting beaten? No. Luckily, he's been better in that regard so far. And a lot of credit for that is going to have to go to our perimeter defense which isn't allowing nearly as many unpressured straight-line drives so far this year.

[Courtside]

I only saw the highlight package, but could it also have something to do with Brand's speed?

The prevailing thought is that Bargs would have trouble covering 4s because they are more mobile - but Andrea himself is actually pretty nimble for a 7 footer - so maybe that extra bit of length can equalize things if he's able to at least keep close with shorter, quicker power forwards... unless of course Brand was just slow overall? Has he recovered from his injury and gotten back to full speed, or was he slower than we expect most 4s to be?

Also, Brand has a fairly diverse offensive game, so was Andrea able to cover pretty much any type of scoring attempt by Brand, or just inside where we already know his man D can be fairly solid?

The more we can have him near the paint or basket the better, IMO.

[BorisDK1]

Thats kind of one of the questions I have about all these stats... how do you determine a stat like defensive stops? There's a lot of things that go into defense.. its more of a team concept than an individual one (although there are times where its strictly one on one, especially in the NBA). Or how could you justify using stats when a player is playing excellent defense on a guy that can't miss a shot? Or when a player filters his man towards the help but the help isn't there?

Also, (Boris) are you just watching film and coming up with these numbers yourself? Or are you getting the numbers from somewhere else and then plugging them in? Some stuff could be subjective.. for example, if Jack and Barbosa switch on a screen (opposing SG sets one for opposing PG) with Jack being the PG and Barbosa the SG (Jack now guarding the opposing team's SG, and Barbosa on the PG). What happens if the opposing PG scores? Do you count that against Barbosa or Jack? What happens when the screen that's set is a very good one, and the players get tangled up and its not really one person's fault, its both? Who does that get counted against?

Not discrediting your work at all, I'm just curious as to how all these numbers are calculated.

The definitions of all the components are explained in fairly clear detail at the bottom of the Project Defensive Score Sheet page in the .pdf file. I'm getting these from watching the game and tabulate every outcome of every defensive possession. This is my second complete season doing this, and I did this for a (small) portion of the 2008-9 season as well, and I use it for the team I coach.

The outcome is tabulated for the result for the player being guarded at that moment. So if there's a rotation and Reggie Evans is guarding a point guard and the point guard scores past him, a FGA is assigned to Reggie Evans. If nobody at all is discernibly at fault, that is assigned to "team" (aka "thin air"). If two players are equally at fault (as in two-man games), then both get .5 FGA, etc. It's a simple system.

[Fairview4Life]

There is some faith involved that you know what you're doing. Quite frankly, after reading your descriptions of what has happened on specific plays in other threads, I'm on board. Based on how we've seen assists counted by scorekeepers, and how their judgment is also involved in keeping traditional ox score stats, I have no problem with this.

[Alfred]

I only saw the highlight package, but could it also have something to do with Brand's speed?

The prevailing thought is that Bargs would have trouble covering 4s because they are more mobile - but Andrea himself is actually pretty nimble for a 7 footer - so maybe that extra bit of length can equalize things if he's able to at least keep close with shorter, quicker power forwards... unless of course Brand was just slow overall? Has he recovered from his injury and gotten back to full speed, or was he slower than we expect most 4s to be?

Also, Brand has a fairly diverse offensive game, so was Andrea able to cover pretty much any type of scoring attempt by Brand, or just inside where we already know his man D can be fairly solid?

The more we can have him near the paint or basket the better, IMO.

Yeah, Brand looked like he was glued to the floor that game. Not a good thing when you're already undersized.

[J-Roc]

Boris, what other stats in your charts are subjective (aside from %DPs)? I have no problem trusting them, but just so we know. Maybe they can be highlighted or bolded or italicized in the descriptions.

[TMMC]

For the most part Bargs has been showcasing his improved D the entire preseason, its just been lost in "bargnani forgot how to score" discussions.... When Bargs does something positive I find it funny how there is always an excuse for it but when he does something bad its all on him. If he blocks shots its lazy blocks, if he gets rebounds they are fake rebounds, if the team does poor defensively its all Bargnani's fault because he is the center but if the team does well defensively Bargs has nothing to do with it...

How about its not Brand but rather Bargnani improving and being determined to get better...

[TMMC]

By the way its refreshing to see someone post stats that touch on all players and the team collectively instead of the usual agenda driven pick one stat to tell us how much player x sucks...

Well done

[ATLTimekeeper]

I'd be interested in hearing your analysis of Kleiza's defensive failures, Boris. I didn't watch the game as closely as you, but it looked like he was on Iggy most of the time he was on the floor, who only had one point. Was he missing rotations?

[J-Roc]

For the most part Bargs has been showcasing his improved D the entire preseason, its just been lost in "bargnani forgot how to score" discussions.... When Bargs does something positive I find it funny how there is always an excuse for it but when he does something bad its all on him. If he blocks shots its lazy blocks, if he gets rebounds they are fake rebounds, if the team does poor defensively its all Bargnani's fault because he is the center but if the team does well defensively Bargs has nothing to do with it...

How about its not Brand but rather Bargnani improving and being determined to get better...

You're doing the same thing here, suggesting Bargs has improved his D. How about the team has improved their D so Bargs' D looks better.

[supersub15]

In driving situations where others are getting beaten? No

Boris, can you clarify this statement? Is this getting beaten with a pick, no pick? What if Calderon rides Rose's right hand and forces him left. Obviously, he gets beaten, but only to where Calderon wants him to go, but Bargnani doesn't step out to close out the drive, who gets the blame?