Retro POY 1955-56 (Voting complete)

[Doctor MJ]

In this thread we'll discuss and vote on the top 5 best player seasons of 1955-56.

Schedule will be Mon-Fri, and Thu-Mon. Typically this will be morning to morning.

Some things to start us off:

NBA
The Year in Review http://www.basketball-reference.com/lea ... _1956.html
Playoff Summary http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... _1956.html
Award Voting http://www.basketball-reference.com/awa ... _1956.html
Final Box Score http://webuns.chez-alice.fr/playoffs/1956.htm

[Dr Positivity]

For some reason I didn't realize the MVP extended to this year. I always thought Cousy got the first one.

[JordansBulls]

1. Paul Arizin
2. Bob Pettit
3. Bob Cousy
4. Dolph Schayes
5. Neil Johnston

HM: Bill Sharman

[penbeast0]

Normally I like to wait to see all the great stuff posted by our hardworking researchers but I can’t stand to grade another badly written paper so what the hell . . . I reserve the right to change everything I have written and pretend I never said any of the stupid stuff I post later after I read the research on this year but at least there will be something around to shoot at.


The clear best team in the league was Philly with easily the best record, the best SRS, and the ring. Johnston’s 1st full year was on the 12 win dog in 52-53 but he played well that year . . . the rest of the team was awful with the rest of the rotation averaging .346, .330, .330, .376, .330, .330 and .319 from the field (yes, 4 rotation players shot .330). He didn’t have a great defensive rep but his offense was always elite in the league even compared with the likes of Mikan, etc. Then they become a mediocre team for two years, improving very little (29 to 33 wins) adding Arizin until Tom Gola came on board when they suddenly jumped to the championship. Gola had the great size, passing ability, and defensive rep and had been the biggest college star but Johnston (22/12.5/3 .457 and 9.8fta) and Arizin(24/7.5/2.5 .448 and 8.7fta) led the team statistically with Gola only adding 10.5/9/6 on .412 and 4.9). Johnston and Arizin were 1st and 3rd in both ts% and win shares and this year Arizin picked up his game in the playoffs while Johnston slipped a bit. Oddly enough, Johnston got no MVP votes while Arizin finished second and Gola got one 1st place vote (thanks Mom).


The other .500 teams were Boston and Fort Wayne with Boston losing in the first round while the Pistons faced Philly in the finals. The Pistons were a slow but efficient team with no players getting 20ppg or 10 rpg, but the top 4 scorers were all over .400 in a league where the league average was .387. Their top 2 were F/G George Yardley (17/10/2 .407 6.9fta) and C Larry Foust (16/9/2 .447 7.7fta). Teammate Mel Hutchins (F/C 12/7.5/2.7 .425 3.3fta) finished 4th in MVP voting – I must admit I know little about him or why he was valued roughly as highly as Bob Cousy (9 votes to Cousy’s 10).


Boston was led by efficient Bill Sharman (20/4/5 .438 5.7fta) and spectacular Bob Cousy (19/7/9 .350 7.8fta). They also got inside play from Ed Macauley who scored but didn’t rebound and Jack Nichols. Cousy finished 3rd in MVP voting and although they went one and out, Cousy led the league in shooting efficiency for the playoffs.


Other league stars included Regular Season MVP Bob Pettit (26/16/2.6 .429 10.5fta) but (19/10/2.3 .367 8.9fta) in the playoffs;

And 2nd team All NBA frontcourt men: Clyde Lovellette of Minnesota (21.5/14/2 .434 6.6fta but weak playoffs except for shooting percentage); Dolph Schayes of Syracuse (20.4/12.4/2.8 .387 8.8fta); and Maurice Stokes of Cinncinnati (17/16/5 .354 with 6.7fta as a rookie).


I am really curious to know about Hutchins but without him, my votes go tentatively to
1. Paul Arizin
2. Bob Pettit
3. Dolph Schayes
4. Bob Cousy
5. Neil Johnston


Might have voted for Yardley if Hutchins hadn’t been considered Pistons key player so any information would be helpful.

[ElGee]

1956 Estimated Pace-Adjusted Statistics

ORtg

Code: Select all

1.  Philadelphia  94.1
2.  New York      91.5
3.  Boston        91.3
4.  Minneapolis   90.5
5.  Fort Wayne    89.8
LEAGUE AVG.       89.2
6.  Syracuse      86.6
7.  St. Louis     86.4
8.  Rochester     83.8


DRtg

Code: Select all

1.  Rochester     86.3
2.  Syracuse      86.6
3.  St. Louis     87.6
4.  Fort Wayne    89.1
LEAGUE AVG.       89.2
5.  Philadelphia  90.2
6.  Boston        90.7
7.  Minneapolis   91.3
8.  New York      91.9


[TrueLAfan]

1. Paul Arizin. Great year, and was The Man in the playoffs. Slides into #1 thanks to the PS.
2. Bob Pettit. Awesome scorer and rebounder; good shooter. Laid an egg in the playoffs, though. Touch call at the top for me.
3. Bob Cousy. Aboslute, total stud in the playoffs. Groundbreaking year…Cousy had over 40 percent more assist per game than the next best passer.
4. Neil Johnston. Great numbers, team won title. Not my kind of player, but he got it done this year.
5. Dolph Schayes. Same as Johnston…not my type of player, but had a really good year.

[penbeast0]

Funny, Neil Johnston is my kind of player . . . extremely efficient post up scoring center who is a good rebounder and has no character issues that I've ever heard of. Would like great defense too but for the 50s, he's a healthy Yao Ming.

Now Bob Cousy -- Poor efficiency, until this year, a long record of already bad efficiency getting worse in the playoffs, poor defense, his best quality is his ability to get a lot of assists (which doesn't correlate that highly with wins) and some degree of volume scoring (also not a high correlation with winning) and yet he seems to be really overrated in an Allen Iverson sort of fashion among simplistic stat follwers. (and apparently a grouch and one who couldn't deal with Oscar Robertson being a bigger star) . . . THAT's not my type of player.

[TrueLAfan]

I didn’t state that well. He’s not my type of player for this time period. Johnston was not a physical player (and became less so as he got older). He wasn’t a good defender. He was a really good offensive player, but in a style that didn’t really work in the leagues in which he played. The Warriors were a .500 team in 1952 when Arizin was the star and Johnston was a rookie. Johnston has statistically dominant seasons in the next two years, while Arizin was in the service. The Warriors averaged around 20 wins. I recognize the efficiency, but it wasn’t put to useful use…and this was recognized to an extent. His years in 1956 and 1957 were, statistically, terrific—led the league in FG% and TS% both years, grabbed 12 boards a game. Arizin was top 5 in MVP voting both years; Gola got some support in 1956. Johnston got nothing. There’s a whiff of Adrian Dantley about him.

I’m not sure if Johnston could put his skills to useful use in the later 50s. The story goes that he retired because of a knee injury. Really, his effectiveness (on court and statistical) had been declining since the advent of faster basketball and defense, which was the kiss of death for the slow, sweeping hook shot that was his bread and butter.

And don’t get me wrong…I can’t stand Bob Cousy. Don't like him, as a person. Don't know how to contextualize his non-passing skills, regardless of era. I don’t know how to rank him. I (very strongly) feel that he was more of a star in the pre-24 second era. But his specific skill translated into more victories, and he was the primary player on the team for that period. Can’t stand the guy…but I think that, on the court, he was more valuable than Johnston. And, in this case, I’m not going to disagree with the majority of others that seemed to feel the same way.

[Optimism Prime]

And don’t get me wrong…I can’t stand Bob Cousy. Don't like him, as a person. Don't know how to contextualize his non-assing skills, regardless of era.

[Sedale Threatt]

1. Arizin
2. Pettit
3. Cousy
4. Schayes
5. Johnston

[penbeast0]

Funny thing about this conversation True, is that you rated Johnston higher than anyone else so far.

[ronnymac2]

Just wondering......Has anybody seen a full game of Bob Pettit? I've seen clips- maybe quarters- and read about him. Obviously I've seen the stats. My description of him would be a combination of Dirk Nowitzki and Moses Malone, but I can't say for certain when aspects of his game evolved or anything like that.


Final Rankings:

Paul Arizin
Bob Pettit
Bob Cousy
Dolph Schayes
Neil Johnston

Pettit's first playoffs cost him. If he had a decent playoffs, I'd put him at one, regardless of Arizin's team winning the title. But he wasn't dominant, and Arizin played great. I'm giving him credit.

Cousy's a magician. If he's an Iverson-like player, well, that isn't really a bad thing in my book. Iverson DID have value. So does Cousy.

Schayes did his thing as the lead guy and had a decent playoffs. Very good player. I'll put him over Johnston. Johnston's production earns him a spot.



Oh...and question about Stokes? Before his horrible injury, what was his game really like? IIRC, I read that he was a fantastic athlete for the time and a nasty rebounder (which I can see in the stats).

[Dr Positivity]

Arizin
Pettit
Johnston
Schayes
Cousy

I have nothing to say about this year.

[penbeast0]

Wondering what will happen with Johnston next year. Leads league in scoring, rebounding, PER, Win Shares, 2nd in Efficiency, 4th in defensive win shares (for what that's worth) . . . but for a losing (.458) team in a year where there are 5 teams between .500 and .597 despite having Arizin around.

Also wondering how much credit Dolph Schayes will get for winning the ring. He has generally finished a bit below his team's finish here so far.

Should be an interesting finish to a great project.

[lorak]

1. Arizin
2. Johnston
3. Pettit
4. Cousy
5. Stokes

[shawngoat23]

1. Paul Arizin
2. Bob Pettit
3. Bob Cousy
4. Neil Johnston
5. Dolph Schayes

HM: Bill Sharman. I was going to put him at #5, until I realized that Schayes' Nationals beat the Celtics in the playoffs.

[drza]

Throwing darts at a board blindfolded...

1) Pettit - Clearly the best player in the regular season. Stumbled a bit in the playoffs but I didn't see enough dominance from Arizin to jump him to the top.

2) Johnston - Strangely, Johnston and Arizin this year look very similar to Pettit and Hagan in future years: Johnston the better player (on paper at least) all season, then in the postseason Arizin scores more efficiently but Johnston dominated everywhere else (led postseason in rebounds/game, fifth in postseason assists/game)...really better relatively than some of the Pettit/Hagan years where we all universally voted Pettit higher. I'm going to stick with that, and leave Johnston over Arizin.

3) Arizin - I'm the only person thus far I think that doesn't have him at 1, so I don't think I have to justify why at worst I still have him top-3 and my Johnston explanation covers why I don't have him top-2.

4) Stokes - Don't know if he was really the best defensive player in the league or if his league lead in defensive win shares is just an artifact from his leading the league in boards, but ElGee's stats say his team was also the best defensive team in the league so that gets the Rookie of the Year the benefit of the doubt.

5) Schayes - was a tossup between he and one of the Boston boys, but since Schayes was by-far the dominant player on his team, his postseason numbers were great, and his team beat the Celtics I put him over them. Probably could have gone even higher up the list, just too hard to slot in.

[semi-sentient]

Nothing to add to the conversation, so here's my final rankings:

1. Paul Arizin
2. Bob Pettit
3. Bob Cousy
4. Dolph Schayes
5. Neil Johnston

[Optimism Prime]

1. Bob Pettit
2. Paul Arizin
3. Bob Cousy
4. Neil Johnston
5. Dolph Schayes

[Doctor MJ]

My vote:

1. Arizin
2. Pettit
3. Cousy
4. Dolph
5. Yardley