Greinke...

mars whitemon · Post #1 » by **mars whitemon** » Sun Oct 17, 2010 4:22 pm

Do the Jays have the pieces to acquire Greinke, without losing a piece of our pitching core?

Hoopstarr · Post #2 » by **Hoopstarr** » Sun Oct 17, 2010 4:40 pm

It would have to be Snider in that case and that's a no no for me. We don't need Greinke that much.

hyper316 · Post #3 » by **hyper316** » Sun Oct 17, 2010 4:43 pm

the jays have lots of young arms that need some time to show their stuff, having greinke would limit that. plus jays aren't really competing next year, so we dont need a big impact guy like greinke just yet

DonYon · Post #4 » by **DonYon** » Sun Oct 17, 2010 5:07 pm

He fills a bigger need than that Colby Rasmus guy, but I don't think we have enough depth in out farm to make a push for an elite pitcher, especially at the field positions. Unless they really like the idea of having JPA as their future catcher jays won't have much to offer.

baulderdash77 · Post #5 » by **baulderdash77** » Sun Oct 17, 2010 7:03 pm

I think we could get him for JPA and Drabek.

If we could line up a 2 year extension for him, I would honestly take it. Greinke, Cecil, Romero, Marcum, Morrow would be a playoff caliber starting 5 without a doubt.

We would have to re-sign Buck as he's been so good with Greinke and we wouldn't have JPA.

hyper316 · Post #6 » by **hyper316** » Sun Oct 17, 2010 7:14 pm

baulderdash77 wrote:I think we could get him for JPA and Drabek.

If we could line up a 2 year extension for him, I would honestly take it. Greinke, Cecil, Romero, Marcum, Morrow would be a playoff caliber starting 5 without a doubt.

We would have to re-sign Buck as he's been so good with Greinke and we wouldn't have JPA.

true that, greinke + buck

Dr Positivity · Post #7 » by **Dr Positivity** » Sun Oct 17, 2010 7:36 pm

hyper316 wrote:the jays have lots of young arms that need some time to show their stuff, having greinke would limit that. plus jays aren't really competing next year, so we dont need a big impact guy like greinke just yet

We would be with a Greinke, Romero, Marcum, Cecil, Morrow rotation + our bats. Presuming what we deal for him is Drabek and Gose or something.

I'd be in. Prospects for Greinke and Bautista stays a stud and I think this is an AL East contender

Post #8 » by **Nolan** » Sun Oct 17, 2010 7:45 pm

If AA decides he wants to build a winning team now getting Greinke would be a great start. A rotation of Greinke, Romero, Marcum, Cecil, Morrow would be absolutely deadly.

baulderdash77 · Post #9 » by **baulderdash77** » Sun Oct 17, 2010 7:57 pm

Imagine that Morrow could be our 5th starter. He would eat other team's 5th starters alive.

Post #10 » by **Schad** » Sun Oct 17, 2010 8:51 pm

I'd be a bit wary for a couple reasons. One, Greinke is only signed for two more years...he becomes a free agent right at the time that we're hoping to become competitive again (I really think that targeting any earlier than 2012 or 2013 is too optimistic). Two, while he's been good beyond his 2009 season, I'm not sure that he's been "empty the farm system" good...his xFIP in 2008 and 2010 were high-average rather than superstar level.

Post #11 » by **j127** » Sun Oct 17, 2010 9:16 pm

Schadenfreude wrote:I'd be a bit wary for a couple reasons. One, Greinke is only signed for two more years...he becomes a free agent right at the time that we're hoping to become competitive again (I really think that targeting any earlier than 2012 or 2013 is too optimistic). Two, while he's been good beyond his 2009 season, I'm not sure that he's been "empty the farm system" good...his xFIP in 2008 and 2010 were high-average rather than superstar level.

Thanks for your insight, Debbie Downer

evilRyu · Post #12 » by **evilRyu** » Sun Oct 17, 2010 10:05 pm

Schadenfreude wrote:I'd be a bit wary for a couple reasons. One, Greinke is only signed for two more years...he becomes a free agent right at the time that we're hoping to become competitive again (I really think that targeting any earlier than 2012 or 2013 is too optimistic). Two, while he's been good beyond his 2009 season, I'm not sure that he's been "empty the farm system" good...his xFIP in 2008 and 2010 were high-average rather than superstar level.

maybe Greinke would be open to sort of do what Halladay did, and get extended pat the same time?

Hoopstarr · Post #13 » by **Hoopstarr** » Sun Oct 17, 2010 10:14 pm

evilRyu wrote:
Schadenfreude wrote:I'd be a bit wary for a couple reasons. One, Greinke is only signed for two more years...he becomes a free agent right at the time that we're hoping to become competitive again (I really think that targeting any earlier than 2012 or 2013 is too optimistic). Two, while he's been good beyond his 2009 season, I'm not sure that he's been "empty the farm system" good...his xFIP in 2008 and 2010 were high-average rather than superstar level.

maybe Greinke would be open to sort of do what Halladay did, and get extended pat the same time?

Maybe, but then we go back to the point about whether he's really worth it. Is his huge contract worth the likely marginal improvement he is over Romero as an ace?

Post #14 » by **Schad** » Sun Oct 17, 2010 11:17 pm

Hoopstarr wrote:Maybe, but then we go back to the point about whether he's really worth it. Is his huge contract worth the likely marginal improvement he is over Romero as an ace?

And even if he is, is starting pitching really what we should be targeting, given that it's our one area of strength? Definitely, you can never have too much good pitching, but I'm not convinced that we'd be better off trading for what could be a short-term fix when we have a tonne of guys who are controlled long-term, especially if it means dipping into our thin pool of good position players.

baulderdash77 · Post #15 » by **baulderdash77** » Sun Oct 17, 2010 11:52 pm

Schadenfreude wrote:
Hoopstarr wrote:Maybe, but then we go back to the point about whether he's really worth it. Is his huge contract worth the likely marginal improvement he is over Romero as an ace?

And even if he is, is starting pitching really what we should be targeting, given that it's our one area of strength? Definitely, you can never have too much good pitching, but I'm not convinced that we'd be better off trading for what could be a short-term fix when we have a tonne of guys who are controlled long-term, especially if it means dipping into our thin pool of good position players.

He's only 27 you know, 28 by next season. He fits right into the age that our core is at.

The game is won and lost with pitching. For a bonafide #1 ace, giving up JPA and Drabek would be worth it.

Post #16 » by **OldNo7** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 12:22 am

Buster Olney's take (insider)

The Toronto Blue Jays, who have a lot of excellent young pitching and prospects but would immediately put themselves back into a Roy Halladay box -- getting a star who is moving toward possible free agency.

http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/blog?nam ... id=5695939

I am not in favour of a Greinke deal. As has been said, he expires right around the time we hope to be back in playoff contention, by trading away potentially players that will help get us there in the first place.

evilRyu · Post #17 » by **evilRyu** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 12:40 am

OldNo7 wrote:Buster Olney's take (insider)

The Toronto Blue Jays, who have a lot of excellent young pitching and prospects but would immediately put themselves back into a Roy Halladay box -- getting a star who is moving toward possible free agency.

http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/blog?nam ... id=5695939

I am not in favour of a Greinke deal. As has been said, he expires right around the time we hope to be back in playoff contention, by trading away potentially players that will help get us there in the first place.

dam, so there's actually a whisper that the Jays can be a part of a Greinke deal..

Post #18 » by **Schad** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 1:17 am

baulderdash77 wrote:He's only 27 you know, 28 by next season. He fits right into the age that our core is at.

He'll actually be 27 all of next year. But that isn't the problem; his free agent status is.

The game is won and lost with pitching. For a bonafide #1 ace, giving up JPA and Drabek would be worth it.

Whether he is a bona fide ace remains to be seen. He had one terrific season, and two merely solid ones...the worry is that he's more AJ Burnett than Roy Halladay.

Hoopstarr · Post #19 » by **Hoopstarr** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 4:43 am

evilRyu wrote:
OldNo7 wrote:Buster Olney's take (insider)

The Toronto Blue Jays, who have a lot of excellent young pitching and prospects but would immediately put themselves back into a Roy Halladay box -- getting a star who is moving toward possible free agency.

http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/blog?nam ... id=5695939

I am not in favour of a Greinke deal. As has been said, he expires right around the time we hope to be back in playoff contention, by trading away potentially players that will help get us there in the first place.

dam, so there's actually a whisper that the Jays can be a part of a Greinke deal..

No, that was part of a "A Greinke deal doesn't fit these teams:" list

Ong_dynasty · Post #20 » by **Ong_dynasty** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 8:12 am

I actually would not want Greinke (for what we would have to give up).
I would still prefer a few years of "rebuilding" our farm system and sign one year stop gaps that dont hurt the long term of the team (ala Manny).
I am more in favor of trying to get Colby Rasmus then I am to try and get Greinke.