Lon Babby and the Turk Trade...?

[Scouta]

Hi, guys im not a troll, im also a huge Suns fan, so forgive me if i unintentionally say something the wrong way.

When the Turkoglu-Barbosa trade happened, I was really baffled as to why the Suns made that trade (trading for a worse contract and giving up a productive player. (EDITED because of Reverse_Angle)) As a Raptors fan, I was jumping in joy when that happened, because not only did we rid ourselves of Turk's contract, we also got a valuable player in return. But at the same time, I was kinda sad that my 2nd fav team might have to suffer for it.

This issue came to my mind when the trade happened and more specifically during the Turkoglu press conference, but I never posted this or paid much attention to it because quite frankly i forgot about it. The issue was: LON BABBY.

After Kerr, left the GM position at Phoenix, the Suns hired Lon Babby, but he only stayed for a short amount of time.

I will rewind back to last season (it was the second half, when the Raptors started struggling mightily) and Turkoglu is bashed by the fans for his party incident leading to discontent between the Raptors and Hedo himself. And then I remember a poster on the Raps board claiming that his friend is close to Hedo due to his mother's involvement in the Turkish community. He broke the news that Hedo told his friend that he hate's being with this team because the bad chemistry among many other reasons and that he doesnt see himself coming back to Toronto past this season. Furthermore, he mentioned that PHOENIX was the team that he would love being traded too. Everyone laughed at that thread since Hedo was supposed to be untradeable and people accused the poster of making it all up (I knew it to be true, because I know that "friend" in real life).

Fast forward to the offseason, when Hedo comes out with his trade demands. The raptors organization claims Hedo is now content with the organization and he will stay with Toronto (believable, because he was assumed to be untradeable). Subsequently, Steve Kerr leaves Phoenix and the Suns were left without a GM... or were they? July 14th 2010, Hedo Turkoglu is traded for Leandro Barbosa (raptors fans are surprised and cheering in joy). Soon after a couple of days, the Suns announce Lon Babby as their new GM of the Suns.

Clearly, Babby was acting as the Suns GM BEFORE the trade went down, and they didn't want to announce it until after the trade because there would be proof and accusations of a conflict of interest. Babby introduces Turkoglu to the Suns fans, and Turk can't stop thanking him and even goes to say that when Babby told him about this "possibility", he responded "do whatever you can, just make this happen". So, Babby was clearly playing the agent and the GM at the time. Which makes one think; did Babby do this trade for the Suns or did he do it for Turkoglu? One can argue, that most GMs would not have made that deal because of Turkoglu's reportedly low value and horrible contract. And the fact that Turkoglu's agent was the one who made the trade, makes it even more fishy. A month later, Babby ends his short tenure with the Suns and is replaced by Lance Blanks. Clearly to me, it looks as if Babby hustled the Suns and left, either that or he had a deal setup with Sarver.

Which deal might that have been?

Childress

If u look through Babby's clients list, you will notice that Josh Childress's name is on there (who was signed after the Turk trade), which brings me to speculate that maybe the Turk trade was the price Sarver had to pay in order for Childress to agree to sign with the Suns. Furthermore, I would like to add that current Suns player Grant Hill also has Babby working as his agent, which adds more to this speculation and the whole conspiracy behind it.

So, in conclusion, what was the purpose of Lon Babby's short tenure as the Suns GM? Why did he only stay for 2 major transactions (Turkoglu and Childress)? Did he call the shots and made things go in his favor? If so, was the Suns organization and Sarver aware of this? or did THEY as well as other parties (Raptors Org./BC/ whoever) also had a hand in this?

I want to hear more about this, from you guys, who might know about this issue more than I do.

[Mr. Sun]

Suns always been interested in Turk and the fact Barbs asked to be traded just got the wheels rolling without any input from Babby.

[RaisingArizona]

Honestly, Barbosa overstayed his welcome last year. He was constantly injured and his decision making was just regressing ever since his life got a little rough. Hedo may have been a bad fit in Toronto, but in Phoenix, I'm betting on him having a comeback season knowing that he's playing for a contender. All he has to do is stand on the perimeter and allow Steve to find him for open shots.

[Reverse_Angle]

When the Turkoglu-Barbosa trade happened, I was really baffled as to why the Suns made that trade (trading for a worse contract and giving up an arguably better player).

In which universe Barbosa is a better player? Arguably or otherwise..

[WTFsunsFTW]

I believe the plan the acquire hedo was established even before Kerr resigned.

I also believe Childress and Babby separated before Babby was even interviewed for GM

But it is definitely a conspiracy theory bonerizer

[Scouta]

When the Turkoglu-Barbosa trade happened, I was really baffled as to why the Suns made that trade (trading for a worse contract and giving up an arguably better player).

In which universe Barbosa is a better player? Arguably or otherwise..

From my perspective and from what i saw last year i honestly would take Barbosa over Turk, maybe it will be different here as u guys say, maybe not.

Anyways, you can scratch that out if u want, but let's look at all the other facts that lead to this speculation and try to answer some of the questions brought up in the original post.

[Scouta]

I believe the plan the acquire hedo was established even before Kerr resigned.

I also believe Childress and Babby separated before Babby was even interviewed for GM

But it is definitely a conspiracy theory bonerizer

Childress's current agent: James Tanner, who works for Lon Babby's law firm.

[RunDogGun]

From my perspective and from what i saw last year i honestly would take Barbosa over Turk, maybe it will be different here as u guys say, maybe not.

Anyways, you can scratch that out if u want, but let's look at all the other facts that lead to this speculation and try to answer some of the questions brought up in the original post.

While LB was his own fast break, and a very nice player, Hedo was a step up in almost every category. Giving the Suns a secondary ball handler. And in all actuality LB will be replaced by JChill in the second unit now that Amare left an opening in the starting line up for Hedo to fill.

It is hard to compare the two players because they are so different.

[Scouta]

Honestly, Barbosa overstayed his welcome last year. He was constantly injured and his decision making was just regressing ever since his life got a little rough. Hedo may have been a bad fit in Toronto, but in Phoenix, I'm betting on him having a comeback season knowing that he's playing for a contender. All he has to do is stand on the perimeter and allow Steve to find him for open shots.

If that's what you expect out of him, don't be too excited. I can assure you he is not a very consistent shooter, wasn't one in Orlando and wasn't one in Toronto.

But please, lets focus on the main topic here, this isnt about who is the better player; barbosa or turkoglu, neither is it about trying to justify the trade. Let's try to focus on the questions and issues presented in the original post.

From my perspective and from what i saw last year i honestly would take Barbosa over Turk, maybe it will be different here as u guys say, maybe not.

Anyways, you can scratch that out if u want, but let's look at all the other facts that lead to this speculation and try to answer some of the questions brought up in the original post.

While LB was his own fast break, and a very nice player, Hedo was a step up in almost every category. Giving the Suns a secondary ball handler. And in all actuality LB will be replaced by JChill in the second unit now that Amare left an opening in the starting line up for Hedo to fill.

It is hard to compare the two players because they are so different.

I won't argue about who is the better player or better fit. Let just leave that discussion for someplace else, and focus on the issue and the purpose of the thread: LON BABBY and the TURKOGLU TRADE, and if possible, PLEASE ignore anything I said about Turk being better than Bosa or w/e (for the sake of not derailing this thread).

[Reverse_Angle]

When the Turkoglu-Barbosa trade happened, I was really baffled as to why the Suns made that trade (trading for a worse contract and giving up an arguably better player).

In which universe Barbosa is a better player? Arguably or otherwise..

From my perspective and from what i saw last year i honestly would take Barbosa over Turk, maybe it will be different here as u guys say, maybe not.

Anyways, you can scratch that out if u want, but let's look at all the other facts that lead to this speculation and try to answer some of the questions brought up in the original post.

No sir, I can not look at the rest, because I stopped reading at that particular sentence. I figured the rest of the "facts" would also be personal opinions with no regard to history and underdeveloped ideas with limited skewed information. Your perspective doesn't qualify for the word "arguably", because it is only you who would be arguing.

It is highly likely that Hedo is here because of Babby. But this is not be as unethical as some people see. He just got a player he personally knows, which also can be considered the most advanced scouting ever.

[Scouta]

From my perspective and from what i saw last year i honestly would take Barbosa over Turk, maybe it will be different here as u guys say, maybe not.

Anyways, you can scratch that out if u want, but let's look at all the other facts that lead to this speculation and try to answer some of the questions brought up in the original post.

No sir, I can not look at the rest, because I stopped reading at that particular sentence. I figured the rest of the "facts" would also be personal opinions with no regard to history and underdeveloped ideas with limited skewed information. Your perspective doesn't qualify for the word "arguably", because it is only you who would be arguing.

Should i delete that line then? Would that make you happy? Can u atleast read all the facts I presented (Ive also been digging for that Raptors thread that the person made about Hedo's friend, and will post that and any evidence I can find as soon as i find it).

And, u didnt read the whole post, so that doesn't qualify you to undermine or disregard my theory completely. You didn't read what I posted for god's sakes. If you can't answer or discuss, what I was looking for in this thread, then please refrain from posting.

I already posted this before, and I am posting it again: PLEASE ignore or disregard anything about Barbosa being a better player than Turkoglu, (I apologize for having that opinion) as this will only derail the thread.

[grumpysaddle]

Lon Babby was never the GM. He was brought on as President of Basketball Operations and that's always been his position. Sarver was acting as GM during these signings.

Lon Babby - PoBO
Lance Banks - GM

[Kerrsed]

I like frogs!

[DRK]

Lon Babby was never the GM. He was brought on as President of Basketball Operations and that's always been his position. Sarver was acting as GM during these signings.

Lon Babby - PoBO
Lance Banks - GM

Being the PoBO means that you have an input in roster changes too?

[grumpysaddle]

Lon Babby was never the GM. He was brought on as President of Basketball Operations and that's always been his position. Sarver was acting as GM during these signings.

Lon Babby - PoBO
Lance Banks - GM

Being the PoBO means that you have an input in roster changes too?

I was replying to this... "After Kerr, left the GM position at Phoenix, the Suns hired Lon Babby, but he only stayed for a short amount of time." quote by the OP. If there wasn't a difference they'd just have 2 GMs. Sure he had a hand in bringing Turk and Childress here... he had a personal relationship with each of them. It's not like this is the first time players end up on teams because of someone they know. I don't understand the relevance of this thread...

and OP... Lon Babby is still in the PHX F.O. He didn't just stay for a short amount of time.

[-SDU-]

As has been mentioned before - babby is still employed by turnsole in the same role as always - so the premise of the original post is incorrect

[Frank Lee]

Apparently Babby's style or method of agency is a 1 time fee for contactual negotiations.... not a traditional % cut of the salary. I do not know if that makes any difference, but I figure he may not be as involved with the 'hand holding' aspect most agents have during a player's career.

Certainly his familiarity with Sarver began with Hill and apparently they felt comfortable working together. It is said Tglu for Barbs had been a thought prior to Stat leaving, as the Brazilian Blurb was pouting for a half season. I contended that Barbs was also un-tradable. You Raptor fans may love him now, but he is a head shaker and a WTF-er to watch. I am not sure who got the better end of the stick in that deal as we both may wind up with stink on our hands. At least you can wash yours clean sooner.

JChill was somewhat of a puzzling sign up, but my thoughts lean towards Babby knowing Hill's desires, as well as the realization we could lose (be out bid) both JRich and Duds. I think he was our best move this off season.

I can see the conspiracy wheels turning, and frankly, do not doubt a connection between signing Babby's boys and getting Babby here. I also think Sarver had Babby's thumbs up prior to coaxing Kerr-plunk back to the announcing booth, where lil stevie wanted to be all along once Doug Collins relinquished his seat.

Sarver has set up what appears to be a Board of Director approach with the front office. Perhaps more structured like a bank than a ballteam. Babby, Blanks, Gentry all with substantial voices and input (hopefully).

We have some big changes brewing next yr, a new CBA, a couple of key players open for negotiation in Hill, JRich, Duds, and a possible malcontent in Nash, who would be an ideal trade piece, especially if he continues with his very subtle questions about this line up. Toss a losing season at us and see how that 'chemistry' holds up.

I really do not think it matters much what pathways TGlu, JChill, and LBabby took to get here. They certainly are linked. Regardless, nothing changes our need for a real PF.

[DRK]

Well with the way Warrick has played this pre-season, I don't see why we would want to acquire anymore forwards. Making moves now could hurt our chances in being players in next year's free agency, as if we are to acquire a highly paid PF, the otehr team would mostlikely want J-Rich's expiring contract in return.

Look. I know it's not an ideal situation we have here. But its the situation we will go into the season with. Gentry will have to try and get the best results he can from our current crop of players; and if that means Hedo has to go to the bench, so be it. I can guarantee Hedo would much rather play off the bench here in Phoenix than still be stuck in Toronto. Beggar's can't be choosers Hedo.

I feel if given the playing time, Warrick can develop into a very servicable starting PF for us. He is very good at finishing around the rim, and he can try to replicate Amare's PnR play with Nash. Warrick also has a quite useful mid range jump shot. Although Warrick is a below average rebounder, I cannot see why we cannot revert to last season's rebounding techniques of having our wings contribute to grabbing the boards.

On the other end of the scale, with Hedo off the bench, Hedo can assist Dragic in the ball handling duties. Dragic has not shown me any improvement in his playmaking abilities during this pre-season. I believe having Hedo helping Dragic at the Pg will allow Dragic to play a "Manu Ginobilli" type role, as just a pure scorer off the bench.

[raptorforlife88]

I think Hedo should play every minute that Nash does not. So if Nash plays his usual 34, Hedo Should play 26 or so (and all 14 Nash doesn't), and it would probably be the best thing for the team.

Hedo showed last year with the Raptors that he was fairly lousy at being a guy who played off ball as a shooter. If he isn't in his role with Orlando he's out of his element. And I don't believe the Raptors were misusing him either. They wound up 5th in the league offensively and without Turkoglu playing a huge role in it.

So let him be the creator when Nash is on the bench, and that limits the amount of time he has to be relegated to a guy without the ball. Because honestly, Turkoglu's good at handling the ball, but there is zero reason for him to have the ball to create when Nash is on the floor. Nash is ball dominant, and with good reason. Taking the ball out of his hands to give it to Turkoglu is counterproductive to the Suns offense.

One positive thing I will say about Hedo is, when he's motivated he can be a decent rebounder that you can get away with at the PF spot. As long as he's motivated.

[th3matrix1]

As has been mentioned before - babby is still employed by turnsole in the same role as always - so the premise of the original post is incorrect

+1

I actually believe the Lon Babby signing will be beneficial for the suns in the long run. Sarver gets what he wants and the suns make better financial decisions.