ImageImage

Diaw To Jazz, DJ To Nets & Harris To Bobcats In Melo 4 Way?

Moderators: fatlever, JDR720, Diop, BigSlam, yosemiteben

User avatar
BigSlam
Forum Mod - Hornets
Forum Mod - Hornets
Posts: 51,164
And1: 8,360
Joined: Jul 01, 2005

Re: Diaw To Jazz, DJ To Nets & Harris To Bobcats In Melo 4 Way? 

Post#521 » by BigSlam » Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:30 pm

Battery wrote:Here is my 3 team proposal which involves us, the Knicks and Denver...

Charlotte in:

Lawson
Randolph
JR Smith
Azubuike

Charlotte out:

Wallace
Henderson
Najera

Don't like it.

We bring in Lawson when we already have DJ and we bring in Randolph when we already have Thomas.

The only thing I like about this trade idea is the Azubuike part - who I think would make a nice 7th man.
B B M F 'ers
Battery
Analyst
Posts: 3,610
And1: 158
Joined: Feb 21, 2008

Re: Diaw To Jazz, DJ To Nets & Harris To Bobcats In Melo 4 Way? 

Post#522 » by Battery » Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:59 pm

BigSlam wrote:
Battery wrote:Here is my 3 team proposal which involves us, the Knicks and Denver...

Charlotte in:

Lawson
Randolph
JR Smith
Azubuike

Charlotte out:

Wallace
Henderson
Najera

Don't like it.

We bring in Lawson when we already have DJ and we bring in Randolph when we already have Thomas.

The only thing I like about this trade idea is the Azubuike part - who I think would make a nice 7th man.



Lawson will be a much better point guard than DJ and Randolph provides depth at the 3,4 and 5. I wouldn't expect you to like this trade because you're a big fan of DJ. Why I have no idea. He can shoot but can he distribute and run an offense which is the main job of a point guard. The jury is still out on that.
User avatar
Stun704
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,775
And1: 231
Joined: Feb 21, 2010
     

Re: Diaw To Jazz, DJ To Nets & Harris To Bobcats In Melo 4 Way? 

Post#523 » by Stun704 » Thu Oct 21, 2010 11:01 pm

and if he does ur essentially giving up a franchise player for nothing
Image
Pimpwerx wrote:I was a fan of the Lakers...Yankees... It took me almost a decade to become a fan of the Miami teams...I know it's frowned upon, but if you can look at it as an outsider, it's easier to understand why it happens. PEACE.
Battery
Analyst
Posts: 3,610
And1: 158
Joined: Feb 21, 2008

Re: Diaw To Jazz, DJ To Nets & Harris To Bobcats In Melo 4 Way? 

Post#524 » by Battery » Thu Oct 21, 2010 11:11 pm

Stun704 wrote:and if he does ur essentially giving up a franchise player for nothing


I don't want to trade him but it's getting to the point where we might have no choice if we want to rebuild the right way. Even if Lawson doesn't become really good, the trade still gives us much roster and salary cap flexibility going forward. The key to rebuilding a team is that while you're building it up, you need to have flexibility in case the players don't pan out. Right now we don't have much flexibility which leaves us with little room for improvement.

Key word is flexibility. It's not always who you get back in trades, but how it leaves you in a position to add pieces that fit the style of team you want to build.
User avatar
BigSlam
Forum Mod - Hornets
Forum Mod - Hornets
Posts: 51,164
And1: 8,360
Joined: Jul 01, 2005

Re: Diaw To Jazz, DJ To Nets & Harris To Bobcats In Melo 4 Way? 

Post#525 » by BigSlam » Thu Oct 21, 2010 11:38 pm

Battery wrote:Lawson will be a much better point guard than DJ

You have no reason to think that Lawson will be any better than DJ. At the moment they are pretty much on a level playing field.

I wouldn't expect you to like this trade because you're a big fan of DJ.

You obviously haven't been around here long enough.

and if he does ur essentially giving up a franchise player for nothing

Oh, and then there is that ^^^^^
B B M F 'ers
Jaruff
RealGM
Posts: 17,035
And1: 16
Joined: Apr 27, 2010

Re: Diaw To Jazz, DJ To Nets & Harris To Bobcats In Melo 4 Way? 

Post#526 » by Jaruff » Thu Oct 21, 2010 11:45 pm

Denver is not going to trade Lawson under any circumstances. Billups? Perhaps. Lawson? No.

Switch Randolph with Gallo and give us a future pick instead of Lawson and I would be happy. Let the Nuggets keep JR and see if we can get Toney Douglas to play backup to DJ to sweeten the pot.
Kwame Brown Fan Club | Free Gilbert Arenas
User avatar
SWedd523
RealGM
Posts: 13,490
And1: 6,456
Joined: Jul 07, 2009
   

Re: Diaw To Jazz, DJ To Nets & Harris To Bobcats In Melo 4 Way? 

Post#527 » by SWedd523 » Fri Oct 22, 2010 12:13 am

Battery wrote:Why I have no idea.


It's obvious isn't it? Slam doesn't watch the games. I mean, he lives in America's Attic for God's Sake! That's, like, on the other side of the world!





I will agree that Lawson has more value as of now. I'll also agree that Randolph is a semi-coveted young guy. But neither approach the value that Crash provides. I know his situation is somewhat perilous due to his age/injury history, but that just isn't the type of deal I'd look at right now
Image
Battery
Analyst
Posts: 3,610
And1: 158
Joined: Feb 21, 2008

Re: Diaw To Jazz, DJ To Nets & Harris To Bobcats In Melo 4 Way? 

Post#528 » by Battery » Fri Oct 22, 2010 12:27 am

BigSlam wrote:
Battery wrote:Lawson will be a much better point guard than DJ

You have no reason to think that Lawson will be any better than DJ. At the moment they are pretty much on a level playing field.


Not really. Lawson is a much better distributor. (scorer too)

I wouldn't expect you to like this trade because you're a big fan of DJ.

You obviously haven't been around here long enough.


Then you shouldn't have a problem with wanting to bring in someone who could compete with him.

and if he does ur essentially giving up a franchise player for nothing

Oh, and then there is that ^^^^^


No. With the way the salary cap is in the NBA you need to have a flexible roster in salary and in the way the team is structured. Right now we're not and have too much money committed to players who aren't going to get us over the hump. You need to be able to think 2 and 3 moves ahead and not just what's in front of you at the moment. The trade I proposed allows for additional moves and ways in which we can move in many different directions in order to build a team to suit the needs of the roster. In other words, it's not only about the players we get back for Crash but for the additional players we can acquire in the future because our roster and salary will be more flexible.
Battery
Analyst
Posts: 3,610
And1: 158
Joined: Feb 21, 2008

Re: Diaw To Jazz, DJ To Nets & Harris To Bobcats In Melo 4 Way? 

Post#529 » by Battery » Fri Oct 22, 2010 12:31 am

Jaruff wrote:Denver is not going to trade Lawson under any circumstances. Billups? Perhaps. Lawson? No.

Switch Randolph with Gallo and give us a future pick instead of Lawson and I would be happy. Let the Nuggets keep JR and see if we can get Toney Douglas to play backup to DJ to sweeten the pot.



Thanks Jaruff for killing my dream. Crash for Billups makes no sense. I like Toney Douglas a lot but he's not a pure point. Denver might be willing to part with Lawson if their goal is to remain competitive. Getting Crash allows this. Douglas would back up Billups. Lawson won't get the PT he deserves with Billups there. Plus the trade I proposed saves them 16 million dollars this season.
Battery
Analyst
Posts: 3,610
And1: 158
Joined: Feb 21, 2008

Re: Diaw To Jazz, DJ To Nets & Harris To Bobcats In Melo 4 Way? 

Post#530 » by Battery » Fri Oct 22, 2010 12:33 am

SWEDD523 wrote:I will agree that Lawson has more value as of now. I'll also agree that Randolph is a semi-coveted young guy. But neither approach the value that Crash provides. I know his situation is somewhat perilous due to his age/injury history, but that just isn't the type of deal I'd look at right now



It's not about present value. You need to think 2 and 3 moves ahead. Thats where the value lies...
User avatar
SWedd523
RealGM
Posts: 13,490
And1: 6,456
Joined: Jul 07, 2009
   

Re: Diaw To Jazz, DJ To Nets & Harris To Bobcats In Melo 4 Way? 

Post#531 » by SWedd523 » Fri Oct 22, 2010 12:46 am

You're misreading my post. I said Lawson has more value now, not DJ.
Image
User avatar
Stun704
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,775
And1: 231
Joined: Feb 21, 2010
     

Re: Diaw To Jazz, DJ To Nets & Harris To Bobcats In Melo 4 Way? 

Post#532 » by Stun704 » Fri Oct 22, 2010 1:09 am

Honestly how this team is constructed DJ is a better fit for this team then Ty Lawson is... DJ has the ability to kill a zone, does Ty? besides we shouldn't trade Crash for billups... Crash is a near max to max level player on a cheap contract. there's no reason why we should give other teams that leverage for has beens.. only players i'm willing to trade crash for is, CP3, Lebron and Howard. i'm on the fence about melo, Crash' defense is just as good as Melos Offense, now is Melos defense as good as Crash's offense and rebounding capablities? I don't think so
Image
Pimpwerx wrote:I was a fan of the Lakers...Yankees... It took me almost a decade to become a fan of the Miami teams...I know it's frowned upon, but if you can look at it as an outsider, it's easier to understand why it happens. PEACE.
User avatar
SWedd523
RealGM
Posts: 13,490
And1: 6,456
Joined: Jul 07, 2009
   

Re: Diaw To Jazz, DJ To Nets & Harris To Bobcats In Melo 4 Way? 

Post#533 » by SWedd523 » Fri Oct 22, 2010 1:20 am

^You're right, I wouldn't trade him for Durant, Deron, or Kobe either.
Image
User avatar
Stun704
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,775
And1: 231
Joined: Feb 21, 2010
     

Re: Diaw To Jazz, DJ To Nets & Harris To Bobcats In Melo 4 Way? 

Post#534 » by Stun704 » Fri Oct 22, 2010 1:34 am

SWEDD523 wrote:^You're right, I wouldn't trade him for Durant, Deron, or Kobe either.

wouldn't trade crash for kobe, would for durant and deron however
Image
Pimpwerx wrote:I was a fan of the Lakers...Yankees... It took me almost a decade to become a fan of the Miami teams...I know it's frowned upon, but if you can look at it as an outsider, it's easier to understand why it happens. PEACE.
User avatar
Fred Williamson
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,849
And1: 519
Joined: Dec 27, 2008
Location: Yurop
   

Re: Diaw To Jazz, DJ To Nets & Harris To Bobcats In Melo 4 Way? 

Post#535 » by Fred Williamson » Fri Oct 22, 2010 7:46 am

Crash for Billups? You guys must be kidding, right?

Did anyone follow the FIBA WC? Billups is 34 years old and done. He can shoot some 3's but yeah, that's it. It is beyond laughable to discuss such a trade. You don't trade a 18/10 small forward with all-nba first team defense, for a 34 years old borderline all-star point guard.

I also don't get the Anthony "Magic" Randolph hype. He has "role player" written all over him and looks like another low bball-iq athletic freak. I'm not really keen about wasting some years and trying to develop such a player like the Bulls tried with Tyrus, and then, after years of wasting time, ship his ass out for a protected mid-lottery pick.

If you plan to blow it all up, then do it the right way. Trade the only talent we have for expirings and lottery picks and tank. And in case you're asking, yes, I rather tank 2 or 3 years, then continue to be a borderline playoffs team. And let's face it, if LB is gone, this team as it is right now won't make the playoffs with any other head coach. So the only thing that makes sense for us, is to start everything over.
User avatar
BigSlam
Forum Mod - Hornets
Forum Mod - Hornets
Posts: 51,164
And1: 8,360
Joined: Jul 01, 2005

Re: Diaw To Jazz, DJ To Nets & Harris To Bobcats In Melo 4 Way? 

Post#536 » by BigSlam » Fri Oct 22, 2010 12:38 pm

Not really. Lawson is a much better distributor. (scorer too)

Based on what?!?!?

Then you shouldn't have a problem with wanting to bring in someone who could compete with him.

I wasn't talking about DJ Vs Lawson.

No. With the way the salary cap is in the NBA you need to have a flexible roster in salary and in the way the team is structured. Right now we're not and have too much money committed to players who aren't going to get us over the hump.

And you don't cut off your nose to spite your face.

You don't trade your best player because of other bad contracts you have taken on (Diaw, Diop, Hammer, Nejera etc)

You need to be able to think 2 and 3 moves ahead and not just what's in front of you at the moment.

And 2 or 3 steps ahead after trading Crash based on your return would be that this team would start to suck straight away and lose any momentum they have worked hard to build.
B B M F 'ers
Jaruff
RealGM
Posts: 17,035
And1: 16
Joined: Apr 27, 2010

Re: Diaw To Jazz, DJ To Nets & Harris To Bobcats In Melo 4 Way? 

Post#537 » by Jaruff » Fri Oct 22, 2010 4:04 pm

Fred Williamson wrote:Crash for Billups? You guys must be kidding, right?

Did anyone follow the FIBA WC? Billups is 34 years old and done. He can shoot some 3's but yeah, that's it. It is beyond laughable to discuss such a trade. You don't trade a 18/10 small forward with all-nba first team defense, for a 34 years old borderline all-star point guard.

I also don't get the Anthony "Magic" Randolph hype. He has "role player" written all over him and looks like another low bball-iq athletic freak. I'm not really keen about wasting some years and trying to develop such a player like the Bulls tried with Tyrus, and then, after years of wasting time, ship his ass out for a protected mid-lottery pick.

If you plan to blow it all up, then do it the right way. Trade the only talent we have for expirings and lottery picks and tank. And in case you're asking, yes, I rather tank 2 or 3 years, then continue to be a borderline playoffs team. And let's face it, if LB is gone, this team as it is right now won't make the playoffs with any other head coach. So the only thing that makes sense for us, is to start everything over.


With Billups, it's more of a salary thing. If you can send out Diop, Carroll, and Crash and get an expiring veteran like Billups in return and a pick or prospect to work with, I think it's worth considering in February if UPS continues to develop. Michael Redd would be great for this but the Bucks already have the wing positions sorted out. I also like Kenyon Martin for the fact that he's injured, may not even play this year, and has a huge expiring deal. I'd take Martin before Billups because we can waive Martin and use that roster spot for a young player.

I definitely agree with you on Randolph. The best prospect the Knicks have is Gallo and I'd be all over a Gallo / Crash swap if we could move a contract in the process. Randolph isn't even useful to us because we already have a better version of him in Tyrus.
Kwame Brown Fan Club | Free Gilbert Arenas

Return to Charlotte Hornets