Who starts at SF?

[KiNgSbOi]

I see Thornton starting from the get go. Until J. Ho comes back of course, he will have his good games and he will have games where he makes you scratch your head and say W.T.F. It all depends on match-ups for Al and how he can use his athleticism in his favor against his defender and not settle too much for a three point shot that isn't really there for him.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

One of the guys recently cut is pretty much can't miss at SF: Othyus Jeffers

In preseason he scored 32 points and had 12 rebounds in 43 minutes.
http://www.nba.com/jazz/stats/

In very limited NBA minutes, the guy's production was extremely solid: PER of 13.7, per-36 minutes 18.5 points, 9.5 rebounds
http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... eot01.html

Jeffers was an absolute STUD in D-League. Was #1 in PER for a while in 2009. Terrific rebound rates, steal rates, win score/48. Was the D-League ROY in 2008-2009, and got called up last season by the Jazz.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/nbd ... ot01d.html

Best of all is Othyus Jeffers' scouting report, that to me indicates he is EXACTLY the type player the Wizards need at SF. (I have liked Jeffers since first reading this last year, btw).

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Oth ... fers-5618/

D-League Showcase Player Profiles
January 12, 2009
Going into this Showcase, we had Jeffers pegged as one of the players we needed to take a closer look at due to the fact that he is ranked #1 in the D-League in PER. Once again it was proven to us that John Hollinger definitely knows what he’s doing, because Jeffers really was a revelation here in Orem.

Jeffers’ biggest strength (besides his athleticism) clearly lies in his defense. He is incredibly tough and can absolutely smother opponents on the perimeter with his terrific combination of strength and length, taking great pride on this end of the floor. He gets in the passing lanes at an excellent rate, and is lightning quick getting out in transition. This activity level certainly translates to his work on the glass, where he is arguablythe best rebounding wing player in the D-League, at nearly 10-boards per-40. He is especially impressive on the offensive glass, which is one of the main reasons he is so efficient from the field.

THE REASON I LIKE REALGM SO MUCH is I get to play GM in make believe. To me, Jeffers is an absolute NO BRAINER for the Wizards. I know there is an attachment to certain guys and there are guaranteed contracts, but this kid can play. Tough part is who would I cut to make a spot for a superior talent?

If I had to make the call, I'd look to get a round 2 pick for Thornton because I know he's not the long term SF. Young is the only legit-sized SG, and I know he can defend the position. Martin is a a minimum salary kid who can consistently hit the three. He helps with spacing. He will board and he does pass the ball. I am inclined to want to keep him around because he's a Flip Saunders' type player. The system fits him. Wouldn't want to have to cut him for Jeffers ... but, if I couldn't get something for either Nick or Al, I'd probably cut Martin.

I would love to have an all-out aggressive wing player like Jeffers on this team.

[Ruzious]

CCJ, I've gotta play the DA. I've never seen him play, but how many 6'5 210 lb SF's with no jump shot (per draftexpress) are there in the NBA? I assume they had a glowing report of his defense with the assumption that he'd be defending guards; not forwards. He's 25 years old, so where's the upside? Sorry, but what he sounds like is a poor man's Trevor Booker at the 3. His only hope at sticking in the NBA is at guard.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

He is a poor man's Trevor Booker, you devil you.

I read sizes and reaches on DX and I go back to DeJuan Blair. Invariably, I choose to follow my read of the stats. Height would mean Nick Young, who's probably an inch to two inches taller is a better SF. However, what about build? What about body mass and center of gravity? What about temperment? I think Jeffers is a F. He is not a G.

Ruz, right off the top of my head I can name a few guys his size who have been darned good SF. Adrian Griffin was a real good sub for a couple years and played for several teams. Some other names: Mitchell Butler, Micheal Curry, Bruce Bowen, Sam Mitchell

Regardless of Jeffer's size, he's got some ability that this team can use. I know he's no more than a situational substitute, Ruz. He's a good rebounder and defender and he can throw down dunks on the break. Plays with an extremely high motor.

Cartier has the long ball. Jeffers does everything else.

[nate33]

He is a poor man's Trevor Booker, you devil you.

I read sizes and reaches on DX and I go back to DeJuan Blair. Invariably, I choose to follow my read of the stats. Height would mean Nick Young, who's probably an inch to two inches taller is a better SF. However, what about build? What about body mass and center of gravity? What about temperment? I think Jeffers is a F. He is not a G.

Ruz, right off the top of my head I can name a few guys his size who have been darned good SF. Adrian Griffin was a real good sub for a couple years and played for several teams. Some other names: Mitchell Butler, Micheal Curry, Bruce Bowen, Sam Mitchell

Regardless of Jeffer's size, he's got some ability that this team can use. I know he's no more than a situational substitute, Ruz. He's a good rebounder and defender and he can throw down dunks on the break. Plays with an extremely high motor.

Cartier has the long ball. Jeffers does everything else.

Yes, but Booker does everything else too. If given the choice between a 6-8 freak athlete who can defend and rebound, and a 6-5 mediocre athlete who can defend and rebound, give me the 6-8 guy.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Why not both? I didn't say get rid of Booker. If anything, get rid of Thornton for a second and just wait and see on Booker. Same for Nick Young, if he weren't a decent option at SG.

(Who says Jeffers is a mediocre athlete, btw?)

The point is Jeffers has identified skills: defense, rebounding, intensity.

All the counter arguments about height or athleticism really don't mean a thing IMO. He was a much better D-League player than Cartier Martin, who's proven to be a decent sub himself. I'd just as soon keep Jeffers and Martin. Jeffers can play, and stats back it up if you read them.

Last point. Scouting reports and stats might not move you, but here's the skinny: Utah has an abundance of good SFs. CJ Miles is good. AK will play SF for them. Gordon Hayward is going to be good. With Jefferson not a true C, the Jazz will often go with Millsap at SF and Fesenko at C. There was no spot on the roster for Jeffers. I have seen Marquis Daniels cut briefly by the Mavs for the very same reason. JR Smith, same reason. Early on when guys aren't known they fall victim to the numbers game.

I am sure the guy can play. I think Jeffers is better than what the Wizards have at SF, with the exception perhaps of Booker, if he keeps rebounding and defending the way he did the past couple games. I'm not saying Jeffers is THE answer. But I am say he's potentially a big improvement.

[dobrojim]

darius miles (runs ducking for cover)

[LyricalRico]

darius miles (runs ducking for cover)

Arggghhh! You beat me to it.

Seriously, though...I would expect Flip to start Game 1 with the 3-guard look that has Hinrich at SF, and then spot-start Thornton depending on matchups.

[Dat2U]

CCJ, I've gotta play the DA. I've never seen him play, but how many 6'5 210 lb SF's with no jump shot (per draftexpress) are there in the NBA? I assume they had a glowing report of his defense with the assumption that he'd be defending guards; not forwards. He's 25 years old, so where's the upside? Sorry, but what he sounds like is a poor man's Trevor Booker at the 3. His only hope at sticking in the NBA is at guard.

Wow, that sounds really really bad.

Yes, but Booker does everything else too. If given the choice between a 6-8 freak athlete who can defend and rebound, and a 6-5 mediocre athlete who can defend and rebound, give me the 6-8 guy.

So Booker has one good game that no one saw and suddenly he's a do-everything athletic freak?

I know Booker tested well in Chicago but I hadn't seen anything in pre-season or his time at Clemson to make me believe he was an athletic freak. And outside of that one game that no one saw, his pre-season performance left a lot to be desired.

(Who says Jeffers is a mediocre athlete, btw?)

The point is Jeffers has identified skills: defense, rebounding, intensity.

All the counter arguments about height or athleticism really don't mean a thing IMO. He was a much better D-League player than Cartier Martin, who's proven to be a decent sub himself. I'd just as soon keep Jeffers and Martin. Jeffers can play, and stats back it up if you read them.

I agree with you CCJ. I've had the chance to watch Jeffers on a couple of occasions out in Vegas the last two years and he's impressed me each time. His ball-handling is definitely superior to Booker. He can get to the rack. He's a solid athlete, at least IMO. He definitely has displayed more intensity that I have "seen" out of Booker. And he's aggressive on the boards. He's like a 'live wire'. A high effort, energy type. Not sure about the jumper but I think he could definitely help a team in spot minutes.

[Ruzious]

He is a poor man's Trevor Booker, you devil you.

I read sizes and reaches on DX and I go back to DeJuan Blair. Invariably, I choose to follow my read of the stats. Height would mean Nick Young, who's probably an inch to two inches taller is a better SF. However, what about build? What about body mass and center of gravity? What about temperment? I think Jeffers is a F. He is not a G.

Ruz, right off the top of my head I can name a few guys his size who have been darned good SF. Adrian Griffin was a real good sub for a couple years and played for several teams. Some other names: Mitchell Butler, Micheal Curry, Bruce Bowen, Sam Mitchell

Regardless of Jeffer's size, he's got some ability that this team can use. I know he's no more than a situational substitute, Ruz. He's a good rebounder and defender and he can throw down dunks on the break. Plays with an extremely high motor.

Cartier has the long ball. Jeffers does everything else.

Hehe. That's fair enough - as long as you're saying he's no more than a situational substitute. I thought you were pushing him as more than that. My preference would be to keep Cartier, because Booker can fill the role Jeffers would play, and I think Cartier's shooting fills a need.

[Ruzious]

CCJ, I've gotta play the DA. I've never seen him play, but how many 6'5 210 lb SF's with no jump shot (per draftexpress) are there in the NBA? I assume they had a glowing report of his defense with the assumption that he'd be defending guards; not forwards. He's 25 years old, so where's the upside? Sorry, but what he sounds like is a poor man's Trevor Booker at the 3. His only hope at sticking in the NBA is at guard.

Wow, that sounds really really bad.

Yes, but Booker does everything else too. If given the choice between a 6-8 freak athlete who can defend and rebound, and a 6-5 mediocre athlete who can defend and rebound, give me the 6-8 guy.

So Booker has one good game that no one saw and suddenly he's a do-everything athletic freak?

I know Booker tested well in Chicago but I hadn't seen anything in pre-season or his time at Clemson to make me believe he was an athletic freak. And outside of that one game that no one saw, his pre-season performance left a lot to be desired.

(Who says Jeffers is a mediocre athlete, btw?)

The point is Jeffers has identified skills: defense, rebounding, intensity.

All the counter arguments about height or athleticism really don't mean a thing IMO. He was a much better D-League player than Cartier Martin, who's proven to be a decent sub himself. I'd just as soon keep Jeffers and Martin. Jeffers can play, and stats back it up if you read them.

I agree with you CCJ. I've had the chance to watch Jeffers on a couple of occasions out in Vegas the last two years and he's impressed me each time. His ball-handling is definitely superior to Booker. He can get to the rack. He's a solid athlete, at least IMO. He definitely has displayed more intensity that I have "seen" out of Booker. And he's aggressive on the boards. He's like a 'live wire'. A high effort, energy type. Not sure about the jumper but I think he could definitely help a team in spot minutes.

I think you're putting way too much weight on SL play. Booker's somewhat tentative play is easily explained by the fact that he's digesting a lot of new information. You can't just go out there and "show intensity" without knowing what you're doing. He's just been going through a learning curve. If you saw him for 4 years at Clemson, you know that questioning his intensity is silly. You can legitimately question his skills big-time - but not his effort, imo.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Ruz, Jeffers has played well over an entire season in the D League and the next before his call up. He's performed very well at the D-League Showcase in front of many scouts. He's performed well in summer league. If you extrapolate his numbers, he's performed well in very limited regular season NBA minutes. Jeffers did not perform well in limited playoff minutes with the Jazz, but he did play in the playoffs for a team coached by Jerry Sloan.

Just for comparison, 2010-2011 preseason totals:
============================================
Othyus Jeffers: 32 points, 12 rebounds in 43 minutes Shot .538.
Cartier Martin: 23 points, 12 rebounds in 81 minutes. Shot .563
Trevor Booker: 18 points, 29 rebounds in 89 minutes. Shot .250

Considering the concerns at SF, I reiterate Jeffers is a guy the Wizards could use. I like Martin and think Booker needs time to see what he can do.

Jeffers is ready to contribute right now.

[Ruzious]

Ruz, Jeffers has played well over an entire season in the D League and the next before his call up. He's performed very well at the D-League Showcase in front of many scouts. He's performed well in summer league. If you extrapolate his numbers, he's performed well in very limited regular season NBA minutes. Jeffers did not perform well in limited playoff minutes with the Jazz, but he did play in the playoffs for a team coached by Jerry Sloan.

Just for comparison, 2010-2011 preseason totals:
============================================
Othyus Jeffers: 32 points, 12 rebounds in 43 minutes Shot .538.
Cartier Martin: 23 points, 12 rebounds in 81 minutes. Shot .563
Trevor Booker: 18 points, 29 rebounds in 89 minutes. Shot .250

Considering the concerns at SF, I reiterate Jeffers is a guy the Wizards could use. I like Martin and think Booker needs time to see what he can do.

Jeffers is ready to contribute right now.

Way way wayyyyyyyyyyy too small sample sizes.

And again - roles: Jeffers plays same role that Booker plays. Booker has excellent size at 3, while Jeffers has terrible size at 3. Booker was a 1st round pick. Jeffers is 25 years old. Martin fills a role that Jeffers can't. If we're talking about filling limited roles - which I think you agreed we are - the decisions made themselves.