I'm in love with Steve Blake

[Wavy Q]

btw if anyone didn't notice, Luke Walton re-injured himself... again

[Dr Aki]

we need to start over looking the regular season and jump straight to the playoffs. where its all about matchups. we're not going to see GS or phoenix in the playoffs anymore...

gasol can play center. agree.
gasol can play center 40 minutes a night. hmmm... not in the playoffs. not with the knowledge of how to slow gasol down.

it doesn't matter who plays center on any given night, as long as they play their best on any given night. we all understand what lamar brings to the table, he's there in a supporting role, making everyone better, but he isn't andrew bynum at defending centers, pau isn't andrew bynum at defending centers. pau isn't even kwame brown at defending centers, even though pau's numbers are superior to kwame's.

now why make such a ridiculous statement? because pau is at most 250 lbs. whereas kwame is ~270 lbs. (and drew is around ~270 lbs as well.). their bodies are built to bump and push and grind with other ~270+ lbs players who also know how to throw their weight around.

now i understand why we would want to play gasol at center. he's devastating there. but not always, and not always against teams that know how to defend gasol. its just simply not in the lakers' interest that gasol plays the 5 all the time.

no-one is arguing that gasol can't spend time at the 5, and he does even if bynum is healthy and balling anyway. all we're saying is that pau's a natural 4, not a 5. even though his statistical output is better at the 5, he is still a natural 4. even though he's statistically a better defender of 5s than bynum, he is still a natural 4.

(heck, if i had kwame, id be putting gasol/kwame to start the game before having lamar come off the bench anyway. although i would hesitate a little because then most teams would cheat off kwame, whereas this isn't a problem with bynum, and he forces teams to defend him with a big body)

[Pablo Escobar]

Without Drew against the Celtics this year we would of lost the finals

[semi-sentient]

DEEP & Aki, I have come to realize on our board it is strongly divided. Guys either love or hate Drew,

You're a little too emotionally attached to Bynum if you think we hate him. What I brought up was about role changes and maximizing our talent, noting that Bynum still gets the same number of minutes.

And regarding Gasol getting banged up at the 5, everyone seems to have missed that he'd only get around 18 minutes there with Bynum coming off the bench.

mostly from what i see here is guys that don't like thus they don't even try to understand his worth. I've given up on the notion that guys can not like a person yet still call the player for what he's worth. I never really liked A.I. but you wouldn't hear me trying to say he couldn't put the ball in the hole.

Unbelievable. Do you even read what people write about Bynum?

[semi-sentient]

Without Drew against the Celtics this year we would of lost the finals

Without Pau we wouldn't have even gotten there.

Bynum is important for us because it allows us to have a very good 4/5 rotation and I don't think anyone is suggesting that we cut him from the playoff roster. Of course he helped us win against the Celtics. They are one of the few teams that almost requre us to play two 7-footers together (although times have changed), but against every other team we have more of an advantage with Pau/Odom.

Regarding the Celtics though, who's going to match-up with Shaq off the bench? Oh, Theo Ratliff. Lovely. I think I'd rather have Bynum on him and take my chances with Pau/Odom against Perkins/Old Ass KG.

[microfib4thewin]

OK microfib, first off if you knew me well on this board you'd know that I was one of Drew's harshest critics for a long time.

If you were, then you were doing it before he broke out in 08, because you haven't criticized him since.

my stance on him is he's needed more at this point for defensive purposes.

That's why you're a Bynum fanatic. Bynum's defense is only marginally better than Pau at this point. He gets punked by more physical matchups like Haywood or Shaq just as much as Pau does. We want to keep Bynum because he's another big we can use, not because his defense is so much better than Pau. I criticize Pau less because he's not a turnover machine when he has the ball like Bynum, so I give him a little more slack when he's not playing good defense. I have also called out on Pau's slumping toward the end of last season. You never called out Bynum on anything, You either pin it on injuries, or you just ignore the bad things he does on court and think he's progressing like we wanted. His pick and roll defense, rebounding, and shot blocking is subpar for someone with his size and skill.

BTW my eyes never lie !

Time to take off your Kareem goggle, because Bynum is not going to be our franchise player.

[ock]

I thought this thread was about Steve Blake?

I can't wait to see him in real regular season and playoff games when things matter. I think his cool is going to shine the brightest then. I've been following him since Maryland (went to college in Maryland), and I've wanted him on the Lakers for longest time. My brother wrote long essays on this board about how Blake would be a perfect fix for our team. A real point?! Not just a player who happens to be short enough to be a PG with knowledge of the triangle, but a real PG? One who can make good passes? God, it gets me excited.

[DEEP3CL]

If you were, then you were doing it before he broke out in 08, because you haven't criticized him since.

Hell to the NO man......I was on his ass before 08, I was on him tough in 09...was on him last year and will continue to be until I see the elements of defensive basketball he needs to learn. So try again with that......but you're flat out WRONG ! Sorry.

my stance on him is he's needed more at this point for defensive purposes.

That's why you're a Bynum fanatic. Bynum's defense is only marginally better than Pau at this point.

Perfect contradiction here, if you're admitting Drew is better defensively weather it's slightly or not.....what are you arguing ? This is my point exactly, Drew is right now better defensively than Pau no matter how slight it is. So what are you arguing again ? Please tell me. And again I'm not a Bynum fanatic......you got it badly twisted, go research some of the old game threads from any year and you'll see me on that ass.

He gets punked by more physical matchups like Haywood or Shaq just as much as Pau does.

Again wrong....when has Drew ever gotten punk'd by Brendan Haywood ? Please miss me with that garbage, now Shaq yeah he got punk'd over the years....last year in Cleveland specifically.

BTW my eyes never lie !

Time to take off your Kareem goggle, because Bynum is not going to be our franchise player.

Never said he was our franchise player or was going to be, dude if you're going to call me out on stuff you need to get your facts right.

[microfib4thewin]

Hell to the NO man......I was on his ass before 08, I was on him tough in 09...was on him last year and will continue to be until I see the elements of defensive basketball he needs to learn. So try again with that......but you're flat out WRONG ! Sorry.

Typical of you. Even when you talk about how you're always on Bynum's case you always avoid talking about the problems Bynum have on court. I may or may not be a Pau homer, but at least I will point out when Pau does have issues.

Perfect contradiction here, if you're admitting Drew is better defensively weather it's slightly or not.....what are you arguing ?

That Gasol should start because Bynum kills our offensive sets? It doesn't matter if he's a slightly better defender when he's an absolute blackhole whenever he touches the ball, and it's gotten bad enough he's willing to tackle through triple teams to get a shot up which always ended up getting stripped.

Playing physical doesn't mean squat when you always end up losing the ball, and on the other side where we DO need him to be more physical and active, he often allowed guards to dribble penetrate with ease and commit stupid fouls when he's late to recover. His defense has suffered since his first knee injury and right now it's not that great compared to Gasol. If Gasol gets knocked for defensive issues, so should Bynum. Bynum looks like a good defender if you just look at his build, but his defensive fundamentals are lacking.

And again I'm not a Bynum fanatic......

If I am a Pau homer then you're a Bynum fanatic. I like to defend Pau, and you like to defend Bynum. It's simple really.

Again wrong....when has Drew ever gotten punk'd by Brendan Haywood ?

He had his worst performance against the Mavs last season on the game where Haywood was already traded for. He ended up with 10/11 with 5 TOs after scoring 19 and 24 points in the previous two matchups. This isn't really the first time Bynum has struggled against a good defensive center, the few times where he dueled against Oden as well as Dwight he has trouble establishing a good position down low, and Bynum was forced into off balanced shots.

What I find really ironic about this debate is, people thought Bynum is our physical presence because he's 7 feet and not built like a twig, but he plays with finesse much more often than he does with brute force. So all the knock about how Pau is soft and then uses that to distinguish between Bynum and Pau is rather pointless.

[DEEP3CL]

Again like 90% of these Drew haters you included......you go running to numbers and what he does offensively. Hell I've already said we DON'T need any offense what so ever from Drew. It's defensive consistency period, it's no other way to slice it microfib.

And like I said if you want to see how I've criticize Drew during games or after games....go research to old GT's. You'll find me trust me.

Anyway with respect to picc, this thread is about Blake and I'm not talking Drew again. Anyway Blake has been OK so far, hope he give Brooks some trouble on Tuesday night.

[anuroc]

I bet Gasol would be really happy if Phil Jackson could change Bynum for Odom at every play (like at team handball), so he could play with Drew in the Lakers zone and with Lamar on the offensive zone.

But as long as that's not happening I'd say keep Bynum as starter. During his Memphis years Gasol had more problem against "physical" centers like Dampier than against skilled big men like Yao Ming. And I mean on both ends of the floor.

Regarding the Blake issue, I think he will be an upgrade over Farmar during the regular season but I'm not sure about the playoffs.

[stunnar0b]

this off-topic is completely mute... dont you guys think if phil and co thought that we were better off with bynum off the bech it would've happen already...

last time i checked we win games with defense and rebounding, so how the hell are we going to establish a no fly zone with odom and gasol starting off the game. please, as much as i love pau hes not the one you want controlling the paint by any means.

Pau's already going to be our focal point on offense, now you want him to be our main inforcer on defense too. by all-star break he's going to be worn the hell out

i said it before and i'll say it again, a pau and odom front line is a soft front line. and that creates an open season for dribble penetration all game long

DEEP3CL your beating a dead horse with this one

[joe.linnen]

Hell it doesn't matter to me one way or another. The bench never really used the triangle that much so Blake and Odom leading the bench would work out great.

[DEEP3CL]

this off-topic is completely mute... dont you guys think if phil and co thought that we were better off with bynum off the bech it would've happen already...

last time i checked we win games with defense and rebounding, so how the hell are we going to establish a no fly zone with odom and gasol starting off the game. please, as much as i love pau hes not the one you want controlling the paint by any means.

Pau's already going to be our focal point on offense, now you want him to be our main inforcer on defense too. by all-star break he's going to be worn the hell out

i said it before and i'll say it again, a pau and odom front line is a soft front line. and that creates an open season for dribble penetration all game long

DEEP3CL your beating a dead horse with this one

Well I'm not the one pushing for such asinine idea, I'm only beating a dead horse trying to get guys to understand that like you said it won't happen. I agree with everything you said though.

[Anklebreaker702]

You're a little too emotionally attached to Bynum if you think we hate him. What I brought up was about role changes and maximizing our talent, noting that Bynum still gets the same number of minutes.

Sounds like the one who is too emotionally attached is you. I never singled you out, I actually thought what you said makes since to some degree except bringing Bynum off the bench it would probably make more sense to start Blake.

Unbelievable. Do you even read what people write about Bynum?

YES! Question is do you? Most here act like he ain't sh**. That doesn't mean its you. If you can't see most of our posters don't want to see him gone its because you don't want to see it.

[Anklebreaker702]

Hell to the NO man......I was on his ass before 08, I was on him tough in 09...was on him last year and will continue to be until I see the elements of defensive basketball he needs to learn. So try again with that......but you're flat out WRONG ! Sorry.

Typical of you. Even when you talk about how you're always on Bynum's case you always avoid talking about the problems Bynum have on court. I may or may not be a Pau homer, but at least I will point out when Pau does have issues.

Perfect contradiction here, if you're admitting Drew is better defensively weather it's slightly or not.....what are you arguing ?

That Gasol should start because Bynum kills our offensive sets? It doesn't matter if he's a slightly better defender when he's an absolute blackhole whenever he touches the ball, and it's gotten bad enough he's willing to tackle through triple teams to get a shot up which always ended up getting stripped.

Playing physical doesn't mean squat when you always end up losing the ball, and on the other side where we DO need him to be more physical and active, he often allowed guards to dribble penetrate with ease and commit stupid fouls when he's late to recover. His defense has suffered since his first knee injury and right now it's not that great compared to Gasol. If Gasol gets knocked for defensive issues, so should Bynum. Bynum looks like a good defender if you just look at his build, but his defensive fundamentals are lacking.

And again I'm not a Bynum fanatic......

If I am a Pau homer then you're a Bynum fanatic. I like to defend Pau, and you like to defend Bynum. It's simple really.

Again wrong....when has Drew ever gotten punk'd by Brendan Haywood ?

He had his worst performance against the Mavs last season on the game where Haywood was already traded for. He ended up with 10/11 with 5 TOs after scoring 19 and 24 points in the previous two matchups. This isn't really the first time Bynum has struggled against a good defensive center, the few times where he dueled against Oden as well as Dwight he has trouble establishing a good position down low, and Bynum was forced into off balanced shots.

What I find really ironic about this debate is, people thought Bynum is our physical presence because he's 7 feet and not built like a twig, but he plays with finesse much more often than he does with brute force. So all the knock about how Pau is soft and then uses that to distinguish between Bynum and Pau is rather pointless.

Truthfully microfib, you turned a good back & forth between you & DEEP into a sort of childish act. "If i'm a Pau lover you're a Drew fanatic. Come on man you're better than that. Just agree to disagree

[Anklebreaker702]

Without Drew against the Celtics this year we would of lost the finals

Without Pau we wouldn't have even gotten there.

Bynum is important for us because it allows us to have a very good 4/5 rotation and I don't think anyone is suggesting that we cut him from the playoff roster. Of course he helped us win against the Celtics. They are one of the few teams that almost requre us to play two 7-footers together (although times have changed), but against every other team we have more of an advantage with Pau/Odom.

Regarding the Celtics though, who's going to match-up with Shaq off the bench? Oh, Theo Ratliff. Lovely. I think I'd rather have Bynum on him and take my chances with Pau/Odom against Perkins/Old Ass KG.

This all goes without saying that is why its called a TEAM. If you want to take it there we could all start saying without Kobe............ so on & so forth. The point that was being made was Drew's presence made a major difference in the Finals that wasn't there in '08 end of story.

Without out the effort from all playing as a TEAM we don't win anything, but i don't think any of us here are delusional enough to think we would get this far without Pau

[ronnymac2]

I see people are giving all kinds of love to Blake, and in doing so are bashing Derek Fisher. No real Laker fan should ever go out of their way to bash Derek Fisher. We of all people should know his value as a leader and experienced veteran. When our guys are out there with him, they are playing for him. They listen to his advice. Kobe Bryant trusts him no matter what. Is that not good enough?

Fisher is as responsible for the five titles as PJ, Kobe, Shaq, Horry, Pau, Lamar, and anybody else. We don't have those titles without him. The dude is still valuable as hell.....


I haven't watched much pre-season ball, but I do hope Blake is as good as you guys are talking about. I actually liked Farmar, but even I saw he wasn't the best fit for us. Blake is a good player.

[TheHartBreakKid]

I don't think anyone is trying to make the argument that Pau is more important than Drew. But I think Drew should keep starting. In the playoffs, we need to establish a physical presense and size, and LO doesn't do that. I think Pau could play center, if we had a charles Oakley type playing PF. Its not really a knock to Pau, as it is a knock ot LO. I love Lamar, but he also would need a Ben Wallace type center to be effective. Drew provides what we need in the playoffs, and I think we could easily win without him in the regular (as the first couple months of the season will prove). I agree that Lamar and Pau is the best lineup to finish games, but I see Drew being most effective as a starter, also taking into account his large ego and the fact that he wouldn't be too happy about coming off the bench, while LO has no problem with it.

[semi-sentient]

Sounds like the one who is too emotionally attached is you. I never singled you out, I actually thought what you said was makes since to some degree except bringing Bynum off the bench it would probably make more sense to start Blake.

My apologies then. There's a lot of generalizations in this thread so I assumed I was on the "other" side and that was directed at me.