Why we will trade Steve Nash.....

[Frank Lee]

yeah, thats right , I said it... get your crying over with. Call me an idiot, but lets look closer at our situation.

We will not contend this yr. Management decided that for us this off season. Had we signed Stat, we would have at least a glimmer of hope to return and compete honestly.

It looks like the very best addition we can make to this roster may be David West. He does not put us above Portland, LA, OKC may be a few others.... we would still be mired in mediocrity. Besides... there is no easy way to obtain him. I do not see a deal for West and really have not seen any deal for anyone that has made any sense. Just a lot of band aid wish listing.

For all those clamoring to trade JRich... go find the deal. Most teams were able to adjust their rosters and budgets, relieving them of financial desperation...ie true reasons for desiring an expiring deal. To trade him means absorbing more contractual obligations, which limits our abilities in the future, and goes against the grain of our ownership. (see Amare discussions) Can you say Elton Brand or Emeka Okafor ? Jeez... I'd have to think twice times 3 about getting either of those guys. Besides, losing JRich means Duds starts and thus increases his worth in a contract yr. So it could backfire and cost us more dough, possibly losing JDuds and JRich.

Trade Hedu ??? .... gawd... if I see another mention of that... well, lets just say, IMO, he still is one of the 5 most un-tradable players. He hasnt done anything to relieve him of that title from last yr. Hedu is likely more valuable to us than anyone else right now... which is a kind way to say we are stuck with him, might as well hope for the best.

Ok... now think about this CBA... ownership is planning on cutting salaries drastically... players will not agree. If there will be any basketball next yr, there will be a compromise hammered out. Right now is not the time for owners to add lengthy deals UNLESS it actually puts your organization into the play off and contention picture. Practically the whole league did everything they could to trim down their rosters. Only a few teams have multiple players inked long term. And mostly, they are the contenders.

Is there one player, realistically available, puts us up a notch? I do not think so. We brushed up against 'contention' last yr... but the better team prevailed. They are still good, if not better, and we took a step backwards. We are not a top tier team anymore. Nobody fears us. They lick their rebounding chops now as we roll in. Turmoil on the horizon ? May be... but with the improved West, as is, I see us as a .500 ball club at best. So does Vegas.

The window has shut folks... it closed a couple yrs ago, yet we managed to keep it a crack open with a little playoff run last yr. Sweeping San Ant WAS our championship. Had Portland been half way healthy, they would have bounced us on our tails and these discussions would be so different now.

A new core is developing. Think about it... who is left from our true days of contention ? There are more coaches than players from those glory days gone by.

Our current group of youngsters is our core. We acquired Childress, Warrick, re-upped Frye... have Dragic and Lopez for another yr then it's extension time. Dudley is up for a raise... have 3 rookies in tow, and 1 more stashed in europe. One under achiever who has been put on notice. The youth movement is on. Embrace it. We have some very seasoned likable young players needing to step up and lead.

Our real opportunity to improve is to add some more solid young players to this mix, retain the ones already here, and develop the ones with potential.... and of course, play the crap out of them. While all the time keeping a watchful eye on the budget, which has finally been wrangled in. Our success depends upon them any way you look at it.

Nash has already began his subtle campaign to get out of town. He has yet to speak positively about this squad/ownership decisions unless it is a caveat to his honest negative opinions on what has transpired around him. I do not blame him at all. He might as well play his next 2 yrs on a team that is not rebuilding, and then decide where he could finish his career. Hill is in the same boat. perhaps a little further down stream.

Nash will put people in arenas as he is one of the most enjoyable players to watch. But he needs a better defensive unit around him... an interior defender for his matador ways. Meanwhile we have continually dismantled his support staff and required him to adapt and train new ones. It hasn't been fair folks... on how close we were, then how our inept management reacted with the rosters.

Certainly not fair to a player who bawls when he once again loses his chance at a title. The clock is ticking, and he hears it loud and clear.

Frankly, dealing Nash is the logical step to better ourselves for the near future... which should coincide with Kobe's retirement. To ask our whirling dervish to stay, just as a sideshow at the turnstiles is short sited and almost cruel. We could be a better unit with a better defensive PG AND whatever else we can garner with his departure. It might take a couple yrs, but that is reality.

The backroom mumblings will begin as it becomes obvious that this team, as constructed, is more of a novelty act to showcase our little MVP wizard than a proven contending team. Its time folks. Let him take his wand elsewhere. We have all been under his spell for a while. Lucky us.

BTW, I have tried to remove emotion from this synopsis. Even so, I can see more sadness in keeping Nash here, anklechained to mediocre frustration, than turning him lose.

Thanks for dropping by.

[Biscotti]

Sadly I think that trading Nash and Hill will be something we look at around the trade deadline. It's really not fair to either one of them to play on a rebuilding team at their respective ages.

The only other option is to go after risky moves. High draft picks that haven't panned out for their respective teams, and hope that Nash and Hill can mentor them.

Who?

Oden
Beasley
Marvin Williams
Brandan Wright

Bayless...but he was just traded.

We can hope that one or two of those guys can pull a Jermaine O'Neal for us. Other than that....trade our assets, and try to stockpile picks alla Blazers 5 or 6 years ago.

[YFZblu]

I agree.

Dealing Nash would be a horrible feeling, but IMO, asking Nash to put this team on his shoulders is going to be too much of a work load, and perhaps even be an injury risk to him at this point in his career. I think management will give Nash the choice before the deadline, stay or go...He's earned it.

Something random: Oden + Batum? Obviously Portland may be reluctant to deal Batum, but you have to give something to get something, right? Nash is still all-star calibur, and a significant upgrade over Andre Miller. Oden won't be extended, his contract can be used as an expiring before the lockout if deemed a poor investment by the medical staff.

[raff]

After reading your post frank, I have some mixed opinions, and don't really know how they fit into the scheme of the team. So I'll leave voicing anything for the time being. However, I do agree with your post. Thanks for the good read.

[lilfishi22]

I know where you're coming from, but I don't see it happening. We won't move him unless he says so and we'll obviously do our best to convince him to stay. If he does give the go-ahead then I think we'd package him with Hill and hopefully Hedo. Hedo will hurt the value of the package but I think it's good to just get rid of all the bad deals and start fresh.

[YFZblu]

I know where you're coming from, but I don't see it happening. We won't move him unless he says so and we'll obviously do our best to convince him to stay. If he does give the go-ahead then I think we'd package him with Hill and hopefully Hedo. Hedo will hurt the value of the package but I think it's good to just get rid of all the bad deals and start fresh.

Nobody will agree to take Hedo this season. Unfortunately, we're stuck with that for a while.

[lilfishi22]

I know where you're coming from, but I don't see it happening. We won't move him unless he says so and we'll obviously do our best to convince him to stay. If he does give the go-ahead then I think we'd package him with Hill and hopefully Hedo. Hedo will hurt the value of the package but I think it's good to just get rid of all the bad deals and start fresh.

Nobody will agree to take Hedo this season. Unfortunately, we're stuck with that for a while.

Yeah I'm just saying, if we can move Hedo then we should, even if it hurts the value of the overall trade package. If we can't trade him with Nash, then we won't be able to trade him at all.

[YFZblu]

I know where you're coming from, but I don't see it happening. We won't move him unless he says so and we'll obviously do our best to convince him to stay. If he does give the go-ahead then I think we'd package him with Hill and hopefully Hedo. Hedo will hurt the value of the package but I think it's good to just get rid of all the bad deals and start fresh.

Nobody will agree to take Hedo this season. Unfortunately, we're stuck with that for a while.

Yeah I'm just saying, if we can move Hedo then we should, even if it hurts the value of the overall trade package. If we can't trade him with Nash, then we won't be able to trade him at all.

Nash/Hill/Hedo would never be traded together. When was the last time you heard of $29,000,000 worth of salary being swapped between two teams? Most likely Nash and Hill would each specify a short list of teams they wouldn't mind being dealt to, and the Suns would move forward accordingly.

[Sun Scorched]

If we're talking super-rebuild-mode, then you have two objectives:

1. Cap Space
2. Draft Picks

Trading for actual talent is counter-productive. We already have talent, that's what we're sending out. What you need to bring back is youth. There is an additional consideration in this situation, which involves Nash getting a ring.

3. Trading to a team with title aspirations

Which leads me to:

Suns Outgoing: Nash + Hill + Turkoglu
Suns Incoming: Carter + Gortat + Anderson + 2011 ORL 1st + 2012 ORL 1st

You essentially gift Orlando a spot facing off against Miami in the ECFs, but in return get cap space + picks. Carter's contract is only $4m guaranteed next year, you shed Turkoglu (who was brought in to help PHX contend) and send him to an environment he excelled in.

Suns would be heading into the offseason with their own pick + massive cap space. Use that pick on a top 5 talent and sign Al Horford. I'd send one of ORL's picks to POR for Fernandez.

PG - Dragic / Janning
SG - Childress / Fernandez (via POR)
SF - Perry Jones (via Draft) / Dudley
PF - Horford / Frye / Warrick
C - Lopez / Gortat

Pisses me off that we couldn't get Nash a ring while he was here... that being said, crazier things have happened. ORL is a legit PG away from winning the title. It would SUCK to see Nash in pinstripes, but it would be awesome to see him with the best C in the league.

Nash + no rebounding deficit = Win.

[DBrimstone]

You can't trade 2 consecutive 1st round picks. The powers that be only allow every other year. Hence our 2008 and 2010 picks going out with Thomas back in the day.

If Nash goes to Portland, I doubt we'll get Batum back. I'd expect Fernandez and Odon, in which case we'd probably package Dudley and Hill somewhere else unless we just let Fernandez walk... 2nd option is Nash to Orlando for Nelson and Anderson. If Hill goes with him, I would hope for Pietrus coming back. Bomb the season, draft Perry Jones!

Don't we already have 2 of these threads??

[Sun Scorched]

You can't trade 2 consecutive 1st round picks. The powers that be only allow every other year. Hence our 2008 and 2010 picks going out with Thomas back in the day.

I'm ashamed of myself....

[TASTIC]

I can see him being shipped to NY for Felton + Randolph and maybe a 1st, which if we're out of it, I wouldn't be against. Felton's relatively cheap and not a long deal, so Dragic would still be out top young prospect.

Then look to move Hill to a contender for a 1st...one from MIA for example would only be late 20s anyway

RoLo
Randolph
Hedo
Childress
Felton

doesn't look too bad...though they'd need to try sign an alpha dog at some point

[lilfishi22]

Nash/Hill/Hedo would never be traded together. When was the last time you heard of $29,000,000 worth of salary being swapped between two teams? Most likely Nash and Hill would each specify a short list of teams they wouldn't mind being dealt to, and the Suns would move forward accordingly.

I didn't say it was likely.

[Christine-In-AZ]

Great analysis.

I understand if Nash and the Suns decide it's time to turn the page, and if Portland or Orlando make a killer offer...Ok! Do it. But I'm really hoping Nash and the Suns will just keep the faith and that within this now gooey, confusing collection of players, good things/possibilties will arise. The longer Nash is stirring the Suns talent pot and helping to prop up the value of certain players, a great trade might fall into management's lap. Maybe the ghost of Chris Wallace's gifting of Pau Gasol has possessed another GM and the Suns can take advantage.

Barring a miracle mid-season trade, the Suns ceiling is low 50 wins and a 2nd round exit, I expect even less. But with just one or perhaps two smart or lucky moves in the next year, the Suns could find themselves right back in the mix sooner then expected...especially if Nash is still here.

Yes, trading Nash at his full worth would help the rebuild along. Or, perhaps keeping "the Wizard" and his waving of the magic wand might be the better way to use Nash to rebuild. If Steve can stay "on unspoken message".

I think Nash is still going to be playing and playing strong in 2 years. That'll probably be his last season. Selfishly, I'm hoping he's still in a Suns uni and that player moves that were aided by his play, give him one last big harrah.

[RocPHX]

Damn this thread made me really sad all of a sudden..

[DBrimstone]

I can see him being shipped to NY for Felton + Randolph and maybe a 1st, which if we're out of it, I wouldn't be against. Felton's relatively cheap and not a long deal, so Dragic would still be out top young prospect.

Then look to move Hill to a contender for a 1st...one from MIA for example would only be late 20s anyway

RoLo
Randolph
Hedo
Childress
Felton

doesn't look too bad...though they'd need to try sign an alpha dog at some point

I'd be down with the NY part of the trade... Miami however has no young talent and they traded 3 of their own picks and the 1 they had from Toronto to Toronto and Cleveland as reconciliation for stealing the franchise players... If NY then trades Gallianari, a pick, and trash for Melo, NY really would be a contenders with a top 5 post player (Amare), the most complete scorer in Melo, and the best playmaker/shooter in Nash.... And we get a promising young PF and a good PG who can split the time with Dragic... Maybe even send one of our many SF's (Grant?) out in the deal to relieve the log-jam and allow Hedo to play what he's really supposed to be playing

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachi ... Id=2b3brtz

[Kerrsed]

Great post Frank. Its funny as i have been saying the same thing for a while now, yet no one wanted to listen to me, but when you say it, it make people actually think about it, then they agree.

Nash/Hill/Clark for Nelson/Gortat/Bass/Orton/1st.

Nelson/Dragic
Jrich/Dudley/Janning
Hedo/Childress
Bass/Frye/Warrick/Lawal
Lopez/Gortat/Siler/Orton

[JohnVancouver]

I agree.

Dealing Nash would be a horrible feeling, but IMO, asking Nash to put this team on his shoulders is going to be too much of a work load, and perhaps even be an injury risk to him at this point in his career. I think management will give Nash the choice before the deadline, stay or go...He's earned it.

Something random: Oden + Batum? Obviously Portland may be reluctant to deal Batum, but you have to give something to get something, right? Nash is still all-star calibur, and a significant upgrade over Andre Miller. Oden won't be extended, his contract can be used as an expiring before the lockout if deemed a poor investment by the medical staff.

Nash would be wasted playing Nate-ball - neither of them would be very happy

[JohnVancouver]

Yeah I'm just saying, if we can move Hedo then we should, even if it hurts the value of the overall trade package. If we can't trade him with Nash, then we won't be able to trade him at all.

Without Nash here, Hedo is likely to be much more valuable tot he team

[JohnVancouver]

If we're talking super-rebuild-mode, then you have two objectives:

1. Cap Space
2. Draft Picks

Trading for actual talent is counter-productive. We already have talent, that's what we're sending out. What you need to bring back is youth. There is an additional consideration in this situation, which involves Nash getting a ring.

3. Trading to a team with title aspirations

Which leads me to:

Suns Outgoing: Nash + Hill + Turkoglu
Suns Incoming: Carter + Gortat + Anderson + 2011 ORL 1st + 2012 ORL 1st

Not allowed in consecutive years, I don't believe


edit: oops, a bit late to the party, there


anyway - yeah, it is kinda sad to consider, but on the other hand he's had a great run here and maybe it woudl eb the best thing for the team and for him. I think NY is the top choice, and maybe TO

damn, I wish the Grizz were still here ... we could have had him back at the beginning but Stu Jackson didn't like him.