LAC/DEN/MIN

[shrink]

I've got no problem with Clippers hoping the unprotected 2012 pick is the next LeBron.

I think its silly though to value it that way on the trade board.

[cliptastical]

I've got no problem with Clippers hoping the unprotected 2012 pick is the next LeBron. I think its silly though to value it that way on the trade board.

Apparently you do have a problem with how Clipper fans value unprotected draft picks from perennially bad teams. Fair enough - whatever gets you through the night.

I never said that the pick was guaranteed to be a LeBron or a Durant. You misread what I said. My point is that there is a very real possibility that the pick could be very high - even top 3 (and should be valued there). It is a very rare situation in the NBA, where another team has an unprotected pick that could realistically be so high. We had to sacrifice Marko Jaric to get it and now we get to enjoy the fruits of that sacrifice (thanks Sammy).

The NBA is driven by superstars that are drafted top 3. The Clippers have a chip in the big game. Wolves fans want us to give that up for Kevin Love. LMFAO.

Your points on where the Wolves will end up are based on zero evidence. You have no information to assume the Wolves will improve at a greater rate than any other West Coast team. Yet you still dream that in two years this franchise will have completed a massive turnaround and be out of the basement. Good luck with that. I just thought you may have wanted it back, but I did not realize that the Wolves have no need for their 2012 pick. They are totally solid right now. See you in the Playoffs guys.

[john2jer]

I've got no problem with Clippers hoping the unprotected 2012 pick is the next LeBron. I think its silly though to value it that way on the trade board.

Apparently you do have a problem with how Clipper fans value unprotected draft picks from perennially bad teams. Fair enough - whatever gets you through the night.

I never said that the pick was guaranteed to be a LeBron or a Durant. You misread what I said. My point is that there is a very real possibility that the pick could be very high - even top 3 (and should be valued there). It is a very rare situation in the NBA, where another team has an unprotected pick that could realistically be so high. We had to sacrifice Marko Jaric to get it and now we get to enjoy the fruits of that sacrifice (thanks Sammy).

The NBA is driven by superstars that are drafted top 3. The Clippers have a chip in the big game. Wolves fans want us to give that up for Kevin Love. LMFAO.

Your points on where the Wolves will end up are based on zero evidence. You have no information to assume the Wolves will improve at a greater rate than any other West Coast team. Yet you still dream that in two years this franchise will have completed a massive turnaround and be out of the basement. Good luck with that. I just thought you may have wanted it back, but I did not realize that the Wolves have no need for their 2012 pick. They are totally solid right now. See you in the Playoffs guys.

This is where you're delusional. Please find one Wolves fan that has said they'd trade Kevin Love for that pick. You won't find it in this thread. LMFAO. The Wolves would rather have Kevin Love than that pick. But to assume the Wolves will have a top 3 pick in 2012, you must assume they'll have a top 3 pick in 2011 as well, right? You don't think adding Ricky Rubio and a 2011 top 3 pick, on top of their cap space won't push them out of a top 3 pick in 2012?

I feel confident that the Wolves won't have a top 3 pick in 2011, though, which means greater improvement and less likelihood that they'll be a bottom 3 team in 2012.

[cliptastical]

This is where you're delusional. Please find one Wolves fan that has said they'd trade Kevin Love for that pick. You won't find it in this thread. LMFAO. The Wolves would rather have Kevin Love than that pick. But to assume the Wolves will have a top 3 pick in 2012, you must assume they'll have a top 3 pick in 2011 as well, right? You don't think adding Ricky Rubio and a 2011 top 3 pick, on top of their cap space won't push them out of a top 3 pick in 2012?

I feel confident that the Wolves won't have a top 3 pick in 2011, though, which means greater improvement and less likelihood that they'll be a bottom 3 team in 2012.

And you call me delusional. Find me one fan of basketball (that is not a Wolves fan) that actually thinks Minnesota will not be the worst team in the West come 2012.

I think the cold has frozen your brain.

[loflin3hree5ive]

Nobody knows what Minnesota's record will be after the next two seasons. However, given Minny's short-term outlook, it is safe to say that pick is far more valuable than 1st round picks in the past that have been used to acquire high caliber players. Take that for what it's worth.

Either side claiming that the pick will or will not be valuable is debating something totally irrelevant. The best way to prove the value of the pick is to compare it to future draft picks that have previously been traded. Has there ever been a team that's been stuck in the bottom ten of the league for five years straight who has traded their unprotected pick? If so, what did they get for it? Find a precedent and go from there. Those are the answers you guys should be looking for instead of debating over speculation. I'm just saying...

[john2jer]

This is where you're delusional. Please find one Wolves fan that has said they'd trade Kevin Love for that pick. You won't find it in this thread. LMFAO. The Wolves would rather have Kevin Love than that pick. But to assume the Wolves will have a top 3 pick in 2012, you must assume they'll have a top 3 pick in 2011 as well, right? You don't think adding Ricky Rubio and a 2011 top 3 pick, on top of their cap space won't push them out of a top 3 pick in 2012?

I feel confident that the Wolves won't have a top 3 pick in 2011, though, which means greater improvement and less likelihood that they'll be a bottom 3 team in 2012.

And you call me delusional. Find me one fan of basketball (that is not a Wolves fan) that actually thinks Minnesota will not be the worst team in the West come 2012.

I think the cold has frozen your brain.

As WG said, before deleting his post, most fans don't try and predict records two years out, when you consider the jumps teams like Memphis, OKC, Miami, Chicago, and others have made recently.

Cold? It's been beautiful here this year. I think the sun has fried your brain and turned you into a pansey. Man up, sally!

[jballer_13]

I'm just curious, why is Minny's rank in the West so important to the argument? There are a number of teams in the East that could be worse... Cavs, Raps, Nets, Pistons come to mind. And who knows how Denver will look post-Melo. So much can happen in the next 2 seasons to completely shift a team's fortunes. What if Paul and Melo get traded East then Nash & Timmy finally break down?

Point being, there is no way to truly predict what will happen right this second, so obviously LAC fans will overvalue the pick and MN fans will undervalue it. No trade for that pick should even be discussed for at least another year.

[cliptastical]

Nobody knows what Minnesota's record will be after the next two seasons. However, given Minny's short-term outlook, it is safe to say that pick is far more valuable than 1st round picks in the past that have been used to acquire high caliber players. Take that for what it's worth.

Either side claiming that the pick will or will not be valuable is debating something totally irrelevant. The best way to prove the value of the pick is to compare it to future draft picks that have previously been traded. Has there ever been a team that's been stuck in the bottom ten of the league for five years straight who has traded their unprotected pick? If so, what did they get for it? Find a precedent and go from there. Those are the answers you guys should be looking for instead of debating over speculation. I'm just saying...

I agree completely.

I doubt there will be many examples though. Not too many teams have been foolish enough to trade an unprotected pick when they live at the top of the draft.

I just think some Wolves fans are bitter. I would be too if I traded a quasi-superstar like Sam Cassell for a chump like Marko Jaric and a future top 5 unprotected pick. You can't blame Clippers fans though. All you can do is pay the price (Rubio anybody?) and move on.

[john2jer]

Sam Cassell was never a quasi-superstar. He was a one time all-star. Let's not over-rate Sam I Am.

And the Wolves didn't "live at the top of the draft" when they traded him. They were one year removed from a Western Conference Finals run when they made that trade. Had Sam Cassell actually been healthy, they probably would have beaten the Lakers and had a chance at taking down the Pistons.

And it wasn't an unprotected pick that was traded. It wa a heavily protected pick in which the protection will likely eventually run out to become an unprotected pick.

Seriously, are you new to the game? Your grasp of even recent history is weak.

[cliptastical]

I'm just curious, why is Minny's rank in the West so important to the argument? There are a number of teams in the East that could be worse... Cavs, Raps, Nets, Pistons come to mind. And who knows how Denver will look post-Melo. So much can happen in the next 2 seasons to completely shift a team's fortunes. What if Paul and Melo get traded East then Nash & Timmy finally break down?

Point being, there is no way to truly predict what will happen right this second, so obviously LAC fans will overvalue the pick and MN fans will undervalue it. No trade for that pick should even be discussed for at least another year.

Minnesota's rank in the West is important because by ending up at the bottom of the West will generate many losses to better West coast teams. You can't predict records, just rankings. The West is brutal right now. Minnesota may be a playoff team in the East, but in the West they are going to lose many games. Thats just the way the NBA is designed. Most teams in the East will have inflated victories by playing other East coast teams. Minnesota will have to work very hard for every victory. There are no free passes in the West.

[cliptastical]

Sam Cassell was never a quasi-superstar. He was a one time all-star. Let's not over-rate Sam I Am.

And the Wolves didn't "live at the top of the draft" when they traded him. They were one year removed from a Western Conference Finals run when they made that trade. Had Sam Cassell actually been healthy, they probably would have beaten the Lakers and had a chance at taking down the Pistons.

And it wasn't an unprotected pick that was traded. It wa a heavily protected pick in which the protection will likely eventually run out to become an unprotected pick.

Seriously, are you new to the game? Your grasp of even recent history is weak.

It was a pick with 5 years of protection (I think Top 10). For five years they failed to get a pick above 10. Now all of a sudden you expect them to change course? How soon we forget.

What has changed for the Minnesota team or organization in the recent past that I must have missed?

[cliptastical]

Sam Cassell was never a quasi-superstar. He was a one time all-star. Let's not over-rate Sam I Am.

Sam I Am is a superstar for the Clippers. He gave us a playoff run where we almost made it to the Conference Finals. Maybe I am biased, but Sammy was the best Clipper ever in the modern era.

He is the gift that just keeps giving

[john2jer]

Sam Cassell was never a quasi-superstar. He was a one time all-star. Let's not over-rate Sam I Am.

And the Wolves didn't "live at the top of the draft" when they traded him. They were one year removed from a Western Conference Finals run when they made that trade. Had Sam Cassell actually been healthy, they probably would have beaten the Lakers and had a chance at taking down the Pistons.

And it wasn't an unprotected pick that was traded. It wa a heavily protected pick in which the protection will likely eventually run out to become an unprotected pick.

Seriously, are you new to the game? Your grasp of even recent history is weak.

It was a pick with 5 years of protection (I think Top 10). For five years they failed to get a pick above 10. Now all of a sudden you expect them to change course? How soon we forget.

What has changed for the Minnesota team or organization in the recent past that I must have missed?

You've heard of Kevin Garnett right? You know he played somewhere before he won a championship in Boston, right?

[schaffy]

Sam I Am is a superstar for the Clippers. He gave us a playoff run where we almost made it to the Conference Finals. Maybe I am biased, but Sammy was the best Clipper ever in the modern era.

WOW, I really hope you are the only Clippers fan who feels that way. Sam Cassell a superstar?!?! Seriously???

And if he was the best Clipper in the modern era, that says a lot about the recent state of the Clippers.

[Esohny]

This thread is the gift that keeps on giving. Just when the OP posts couldn't get more ridiculous, they are topped again.

[john2jer]

I love it.

[cliptastical]

I love it.

+1

[loflin3hree5ive]

Sam I Am is a superstar for the Clippers. He gave us a playoff run where we almost made it to the Conference Finals. Maybe I am biased, but Sammy was the best Clipper ever in the modern era.

WOW, I really hope you are the only Clippers fan who feels that way. Sam Cassell a superstar?!?! Seriously???

And if he was the best Clipper in the modern era, that says a lot about the recent state of the Clippers.

Similar to the Clippers, the Wolves have yet to make the playoffs since the departure of Sam Cassell, despite still having KG in his prime. The recent state of both franchises is nothing to brag about. No need to throw rocks...

[john2jer]

So you're saying Sam Cassell >>> Kevin Garnett?

[shrink]

The best way to prove the value of the pick is to compare it to future draft picks that have previously been traded. Has there ever been a team that's been stuck in the bottom ten of the league for five years straight who has traded their unprotected pick? If so, what did they get for it? Find a precedent and go from there. Those are the answers you guys should be looking for instead of debating over speculation. I'm just saying...

UTA got NYK's pick unprotected, and got the #9 pick.

And while the Knicks pick looked even more valuable (it was only a year out), I give the Jazz fans credit for remaining balanced about it, not bringing up LeBron, Durant or that it was worth three Kevin Loves.

I think cliptastic is a bit. He can't believe what he's posting -- I think he's just trying to antagonize.