Amare left Phoenix because of closing window

[lilfishi22]

I don't blame him for wanting to get paid, in guaranteed money, considering his knees may not last. But let's not forget, he'd still be in Phoenix for below market price ($14m-$16m) had Sarver guaranteed the last two years of his extension. So it is about money, but at the same time, it's not about money. He wanted security more than anything and NY gave him that (along with more money).

[ma_falaa_50]

we are talking about amare saying the suns window is closed not about how the contract talks went down. Frankly, if we paid amare the money he got from NY- THE SUNS ARE SCREWED. Amare proved vs LA he doesnt have it in him to push phx over the top. He is just posturing cuz he wants NY to love him.

[Dr Pepper]

Wasn't Amar'e on the trading block from time to time on the Suns as well? Probably another reason to leave in addition to concerns over the Suns ownership (financially and how Kerr left).

The only thing closing in Phoenix is Steve Nash's ability to play heavy minutes (perhaps Grant Hill too) throughout the season but one can make the argument about Amare's health as well..

Imo the Suns should've stayed with Amar'e if they were truly serious about contending, you just can't replace the kind of chemistry that Nash forged over the years not to mention Amare's dominance on the offensive end. Now Nash will have to work even harder and he's only getting older....

[lilfishi22]

Wasn't Amar'e on the trading block from time to time on the Suns as well? Probably another reason to leave in addition to concerns over the Suns ownership (financially and how Kerr left).

The only thing closing in Phoenix is Steve Nash's ability to play heavy minutes (perhaps Grant Hill too) throughout the season but one can make the argument about Amare's health as well..

Imo the Suns should've stayed with Amar'e if they were truly serious about contending, you just can't replace the kind of chemistry that Nash forged over the years not to mention Amare's dominance on the offensive end. Now Nash will have to work even harder and he's only getting older....

Good post mate. Suns should've kept Amare but only if the price was reasonable and everyone knew if we couldn't get an extension done early, he's as good as gone since teams are willing to offer more than what we can afford.

I might get flak for this but I thought that once Amare left, Nash's window in Phoenix was closed. It was suppose to be closed two seasons ago but I thought that as long as we had the Amare/Nash PnR and a couple of shooters, we'd be a pretty good team for a while but now that's gone, we really don't have a legitimate go-to offensive threat. We still have the 3Pt shooting and Nash, but you live by the jumper, you die by the jumper.

[MrVince]

I don't think he was talking about the window of opportunity but more about the willingness of Sarver to truly pursue a championship. I think he had legitimate concerns.

Yes that's what I thought as well. I would have left I was Amar'e. When a team isn't giving you the respect you deserve and when you can get that respect elsewhere then I don't see why you shouldn't leave the team. Also, it didn't even seem like we were trying to build a championship team at all.

[DRK]

Did we really need to "build" a championship team?

Last season we made it to the WCF's and who knows what would've happened if Ron Artest didnt hit that shot. We were so close you could taste it. I don't know if Amare was drunk or high and forgot that in 4 of the last 5 years we have been contenders.

As reported, the Hedo trade was all set before the season even ended. That also shows the willingness of Sarver and our front office to try to make us a better team. If we had Amare with the team we have right now, we would be major contenders for the championship again this year, and most likely the next 2 or 3.

So Amare, I respect your decision to move to New York, for whatever reason it was for. But dont turn around and stab Phoenix in the back and say that we didn't try to build a championship team, because we most certainly did, and we gave it every damn thing we got.

[RocPHX]

If he's being truthful, then I can't blame him.

[JasonDaPsycho]

Did we really need to "build" a championship team?

Last season we made it to the WCF's and who knows what would've happened if Ron Artest didnt hit that shot. We were so close you could taste it. I don't know if Amare was drunk or high and forgot that in 4 of the last 5 years we have been contenders.

As reported, the Hedo trade was all set before the season even ended. That also shows the willingness of Sarver and our front office to try to make us a better team. If we had Amare with the team we have right now, we would be major contenders for the championship again this year, and most likely the next 2 or 3.

So Amare, I respect your decision to move to New York, for whatever reason it was for. But dont turn around and stab Phoenix in the back and say that we didn't try to build a championship team, because we most certainly did, and we gave it every damn thing we got.

If we were that dedicated, we would have re-signed Amar'e or for least a player which can draw double teams in the post. Now, there are no more poisons to pick for opposing teams. Double team Nash every single possession.

[ma_falaa_50]

Jason u just dont get it. Amare was not going to get any better than he was last season. His knees are a liability. With the free money we got from him going- we got Warrick,childress, and Hedo. Hedo is lazy right now but there is no reason why he is playing PF in the first place. Childress will get better and Hakim does his job off the bench. The suns are committed to winning thats why they get smart players. I dont see why ppl still question the suns' commitment to winning because the squad has put a good mix of tteam ball out there.

[bballno21]

He's just glad to being loved in NYC. He proved it to me last night versus Celtics. He's just fine with the fact that he's no. 1 option/star and tries to be a hero (at least did in mentioned game).

[lilfishi22]

Jason u just dont get it. Amare was not going to get any better than he was last season. His knees are a liability. With the free money we got from him going- we got Warrick,childress, and Hedo. Hedo is lazy right now but there is no reason why he is playing PF in the first place. Childress will get better and Hakim does his job off the bench. The suns are committed to winning thats why they get smart players. I dont see why ppl still question the suns' commitment to winning because the squad has put a good mix of tteam ball out there.

His knees are a liability sure and it's a legit reason not to resign him. But I don't buy this "Suns is committed to winning by trading away legit talent for smarter players" BS. We have a decent mix of guys but no real threat on offense we can go to possession after possession. Right now it's give it to Nash and let him create except now he's working harder than before because teams know he's the only real threat out there. Fill the roster full of smart players all you want, but none of the smart guys on our team drew double teams and made defenders collapse on them like Amare did and that's because he was real talent and a real offensive threat himself.

We aren't committed to winning, we're committed to putting on a show to entertain fans who go to games while keeping Nash happy by letting him have the run of the show. If we were committed to winning, we would've signed Amare back when he was only worth $16m per year and made the Hedo trade. Sarver has himself to blame for letting Amare's value balloon as he headed into FA. 4-5 seasons down the track, if Amare has serious knee issues then I'm an idiot and Sarver is smart investor. If Amare is still going strong in 4-5 seasons, Sarver would've made as big of a mistake as Cuban made by letting Nash go.

[Siem]

Lebron and Bosh took less...but yea both of there contracts are over 100 million Dollars. He was my fav.player while on the Phx.Suns, and he dominated,and he'll do the same in Ny.

[Siem]

And I agree with the point of views on Sarver. Ofcourse the money played a role, but Sarver,wasnt trying to get better. The Knicks suck,but after years of horrible managment,you can see they are actually trying to make moves to compete.It's a risk...no question,but if they can somehow get Carmelo, i think that team would be better than the Suns team,which was pretty good

[Frank Lee]

Amare left because his window of opportunity to make $75-100 million was closing.

He should just keep his mouth shut up about why... he has already stated he did it for financial security for his family and left for the guaranteed 5 yrs.

I am sure he will continue with buffooned commentary.... and being in the media-microphone-in-face capital of the world, we will periodically be reminded of his dinosaur-like mental capacity.

[enigmatics]

Yes, he left the team that's two wins away from the finals(again) because he wanted to win a championship. C'mon Amare.

Seriously...if Amare just said "business is business" I would have been fine with it.

For the first time, I actually don't perceive one of his comments as BS.

I think Amare actually has a point. Yes, he did want to get paid, no doubt .... but the way Sarver is running the operation around here, once Nash/Hill head off to retirement there's too many question marks looming. Over in NY, they'll dish out the cashola to buy a championship. This year was the big year for these contracts and with the lockout/contraction stuff looming, it forced his greedy hand.

As great as we played last year, it's hard for me to say with a straight face that I considered us legitimate championship material just yet .... It's not like the Knicks are, but again he's gambling that they'll buy him whatever running mates he wants.

That being said I don't miss him. He's hit his ceiling IMO ..... but we do look lost out there without any semblance of a post player.

[ma_falaa_50]

His knees are a liability sure and it's a legit reason not to resign him. But I don't buy this "Suns is committed to winning by trading away legit talent for smarter players" BS. We have a decent mix of guys but no real threat on offense we can go to possession after possession. Right now it's give it to Nash and let him create except now he's working harder than before because teams know he's the only real threat out there. Fill the roster full of smart players all you want, but none of the smart guys on our team drew double teams and made defenders collapse on them like Amare did and that's because he was real talent and a real offensive threat himself.

We aren't committed to winning, we're committed to putting on a show to entertain fans who go to games while keeping Nash happy by letting him have the run of the show. If we were committed to winning, we would've signed Amare back when he was only worth $16m per year and made the Hedo trade. Sarver has himself to blame for letting Amare's value balloon as he headed into FA. 4-5 seasons down the track, if Amare has serious knee issues then I'm an idiot and Sarver is smart investor. If Amare is still going strong in 4-5 seasons, Sarver would've made as big of a mistake as Cuban made by letting Nash go.

Talent with IQ makes players great. If you look at Kobe, Jordan, Duncan, KG, Shaq, David Robinson, Hakim, Bird, Magic etc.. these guys are great baskbetball minds in addition to being talented. I dont think its right to trade one for the other because the goal is to get smart, talented players but If I had to make a choice age doesnt affect b-ball IQ while talent level may have an opposite affect. Not that they become less talented but a player who purely plays on talent will see a significant drop off. Fact is Hedo is not a 4, Frye is not a 4, hakim is not a 4. so they are pretty doing as expected.

second, actually that is the colangelo's MO not sarver.

3rd there are too many what ifs in your statements but lets examine the negotations. Sarver did offer amare the money he asked but only if he proves his reliability unlike Cuban to nash. Cuban let nash go because he thought nash cant continue to play his "kamakaze" style so the Amare situation is different. you did know the suns pay for that and indirectly the fans if amare gets hurt.

[lilfishi22]

Talent with IQ makes players great. If you look at Kobe, Jordan, Duncan, KG, Shaq, David Robinson, Hakim, Bird, Magic etc.. these guys are great baskbetball minds in addition to being talented. I dont think its right to trade one for the other because the goal is to get smart, talented players but If I had to make a choice age doesnt affect b-ball IQ while talent level may have an opposite affect. Not that they become less talented but a player who purely plays on talent will see a significant drop off. Fact is Hedo is not a 4, Frye is not a 4, hakim is not a 4. so they are pretty doing as expected.

second, actually that is the colangelo's MO not sarver.

3rd there are too many what ifs in your statements but lets examine the negotations. Sarver did offer amare the money he asked but only if he proves his reliability unlike Cuban to nash. Cuban let nash go because he thought nash cant continue to play his "kamakaze" style so the Amare situation is different. you did know the suns pay for that and indirectly the fans if amare gets hurt.

Talent with IQ is obviously the best case scenario but that is hard to find, even you had a list of players who are HoF'ers. Amare played in a system where his bball IQ was masked by Nash's decision making and their chemistry together and as good as Nash our system is, like any system in the league, talent is still what makes them dangerous. Age doesn't affect bball IQ but you can also argue that some but not all talents does decline with age like athleticism and lateral quickness. That said, Amare would've still only been in his early 30's when his deal with NY runs out (earlier if he had signed the 4 year deal with us) so that drop off in talent would've been negligible if any at all, barring any injury.

Sarver has been putting on a good-enough product in Phoenix for years now and it's only been Nash and the system that has elevated it to contender status. He gutted the roster when he could've bolstered it because he didn't want to spend. This may be one of the very few contenders in the last decade to have had to make do with such a frugal owner. And you can't really argue for Sarver spending on a "contender" after he took on more salary to bring in Hedo, since we were left with a ton of cap space after Amare left us. So that spending isn't the same as spending to bolster a true contender.

For $14m a year, he would've been well-below market price and almost any team would've made a play for Amare (trade-wise) if he was on a $14m a year salary. Unlike his deal with the Knicks, had Sarver given in and signed Amare to Amare's original extension offer ($14m, all years guaranteed) and Amare had gone down with a knee injury a few years down the line, it would've still been manageable financially. Nash would still have his PnR partner and we would still have the best offensive weapon in the league, which will always make us a very dangerous team. Now look, I'm not condoning giving Amare a Knick level deal, since we wouldn't be able to handle it financially if he did go down, but I thought the extension talks were very reasonable for both sides.

I did some calculations back in that time and I think if Amare had signed a max-level or close to max level deal with us (which is what he was asking for throughout the season until we started losing), he would've been making something like $20-21m a season. That's about $103m for 5 seasons (this year's $17m option would've been picked up and extension begins the season after) which is $3m more than the Knicks deal. But had we signed Amare to the $14m deal, it would've only been $81m for 5 years. If Amare went down in his last season, at the bargain price we had him for, we would be able to offset his injury year salary with the $22m difference between his max deal talk and bargain price we would have signed him for. If he went down in the last 2 years of his deal (which is what they were talking about with the last two years unguaranteed) we would still be ahead because we would've lost out on $28m vs the $40-42m had we signed him to a max deal. So why am I comparing his bargain deal to a max deal that I wouldn't have been an advocate for? Because I'm just showing what his market value is vs the price we could've got him for and how we would've been fine financially if talks about Sarver offering Amare a max deal (with last two seasons unguaranteed) when FA began were true.

Sarver *had* to know that if he let Amare become an FA, there's no way in hell is he going to still be able to resign Amare at $14m a year and he would most definitely be outbid by a number of teams. Obviously it was not and shouldn't be a matter of letting the market dictate Amare's true value, but I thought the numbers we were talking about were very reasonable.

As for Cuban, he let Nash go because he thought Nash was getting old, not worth the now-bargain deal he had offered and would fall off in a few short seasons. That does sound like Amare's situation. Sarver let Amare go because by the end of Amare's deal he would've been in his early 30's with possibly problematic knees, he didn't think Amare was worth a bargain deal at $14m a year and our FO thought he will fall off in a few short seasons. If anyone should be taking a risk at signing a 3rd/4th tier superstar at a bargain price it should be the Suns, especially when injuries are the only concerns. We have the best athletic trainer in the league and he's brought guys who were suppose to be broken down and basically done, back to NBA condition. Nash's back was suppose to be a legit injury concern down the line and he, with our training staff, has kept that in check.

[sunfire0112]

For $14m a year, he would've been well-below market price and almost any team would've made a play for Amare (trade-wise) if he was on a $14m a year salary. Unlike his deal with the Knicks, had Sarver given in and signed Amare to Amare's original extension offer ($14m, all years guaranteed) and Amare had gone down with a knee injury a few years down the line, it would've still been manageable financially. Nash would still have his PnR partner and we would still have the best offensive weapon in the league, which will always make us a very dangerous team. Now look, I'm not condoning giving Amare a Knick level deal, since we wouldn't be able to handle it financially if he did go down, but I thought the extension talks were very reasonable for both sides.

+1
Good point, lilfishi22.
I wish Sarver would've given Amare that extension. The FO had all the cards with Amare struggling after coming back from his eye injury. Then they wait too long, Amare starts beasting, and he raises his demands to a max contract. 14mil per 3yr extension would've made our FO look like geniuses for planning ahead for once. Though, hindsight is 20/20.

[nevetsov]

At the end of the day, i'd much prefer to see the Knicks buy a championship with Amare than have to endure watching Miami/ LA/ Boston buy their way to another one.

[mybloodisorange]

Yes Amare wanted security and he got that in New York along with a boatload of cash; Hill and Nash are both about to retire, our GM just quit and our owner is a douchebag. New York is in position to bring in Carmelo and some decent role players so when he talks about windows i think he's talking long term and I can see his point. Not to mention New York will feed his monster ego and he is a fashionista so that makes New York all the more attractive.

If I was him I can't honestly say I wouldn't have done the same thing.