Did Nash deserve his two MVPs?

[easiestplayfts]

The only MVP to never play for a championship...so NO.
BTW... Steve Nash is the only player in the history who can't dunk? so NO

[NYK 455]

The only MVP to never play for a championship...so NO.
BTW... Steve Nash is the only player in the history who can't dunk? so NO

Word. James White for MVP.

[easiestplayfts]

The only MVP to never play for a championship...so NO.
BTW... Steve Nash is the only player in the history who can't dunk? so NO

Word. James White for MVP.

Who is James White?

[Asianiac_24]

2006 yes, but 2005 hell no.

This^

/Thread

Shaq was absolutely robbed in 05.

Not to say Nash wasnt great that season and deserved the runner up.

Wade was AT LEAST 1a/1b with Shaq that year, so no Shaq was not robbed.

[Doctor MJ]

The only MVP to never play for a championship...so NO.
BTW... Steve Nash is the only player in the history who can't dunk? so NO

Word. James White for MVP.

Who is James White?

Exactly.

(James White was a prospect a couple years back who was projected to go in the top 5. From a classic agility/hops/size combo, he's an order of magnitude more impressive than Jordan. Dude only stayed for a cup of coffee in the NBA because having that kind of athleticism really isn't as big of a deal as people think it is.)

(Re: "Nash is the only...", Nash is quite possibly the only NBA player in history who was a star at soccer, hockey, lacrosse, and rugby. He's probably one of few people in the world who as we speak could make a living at the two most popular sports in the world. And completely unrelated to that, he's arguably the greatest shooter whoever lived. He has talent that is athletic in nature that is incredibly rare.)

[easiestplayfts]

(James White was a prospect a couple years back who was projected to go in the top 5. From a classic agility/hops/size combo, he's an order of magnitude more impressive than Jordan. Dude only stayed for a cup of coffee in the NBA because having that kind of athleticism really isn't as big of a deal as people think it is.)

(Re: "Nash is the only...", Nash is quite possibly the only NBA player in history who was a star at soccer, hockey, lacrosse, and rugby. He's probably one of few people in the world who as we speak could make a living at the two most popular sports in the world. And completely unrelated to that, he's arguably the greatest shooter whoever lived. He has talent that is athletic in nature that is incredibly rare.)

Let me prefix I like Nash (but for no-basketball reasons).
...but has Nash EVER won a championship in any of these sports?

[easiestplayfts]

(James White was a prospect a couple years back who was projected to go in the top 5. From a classic agility/hops/size combo, he's an order of magnitude more impressive than Jordan. Dude only stayed for a cup of coffee in the NBA because having that kind of athleticism really isn't as big of a deal as people think it is.)

(Re: "Nash is the only...", Nash is quite possibly the only NBA player in history who was a star at soccer, hockey, lacrosse, and rugby. He's probably one of few people in the world who as we speak could make a living at the two most popular sports in the world. And completely unrelated to that, he's arguably the greatest shooter whoever lived. He has talent that is athletic in nature that is incredibly rare.)

Let me prefix I like Nash (but for no-basketball reasons).
...but has Nash EVER won a championship in any of these sports?

BTW thanks Doctor MJ for the info on James White.

[Doctor MJ]

(James White was a prospect a couple years back who was projected to go in the top 5. From a classic agility/hops/size combo, he's an order of magnitude more impressive than Jordan. Dude only stayed for a cup of coffee in the NBA because having that kind of athleticism really isn't as big of a deal as people think it is.)

(Re: "Nash is the only...", Nash is quite possibly the only NBA player in history who was a star at soccer, hockey, lacrosse, and rugby. He's probably one of few people in the world who as we speak could make a living at the two most popular sports in the world. And completely unrelated to that, he's arguably the greatest shooter whoever lived. He has talent that is athletic in nature that is incredibly rare.)

Let me prefix I like Nash (but for no-basketball reasons).
...but has Nash EVER won a championship in any of these sports?

I don't really understand why you're asking that. You mentioned Nash not dunking, and I responded by talking about athleticism. That doesn't mean you can't use his lack of championship against him generally, but it's pretty lame to throw that component back at me when I thought it was pretty clear what I was addressing.

Also, you may have just done an accidental word substitution there (happens to me all the time), but the proper word there is "preface", not "prefix".

[ronnymac2]

Yes. For an extended period of time, Steve Nash has been one of the five Most Valuable Players of all-time. The Suns would be utter crap without him. He is the constant force, the base with which the team is build around.

This doesn't necessarily speak to how good of a player he is though. I've never actually had Steve Nash as one of my top five players in a given season. However, his value to a successful franchise like Phoenix is enormous. I do believe he deserved his regular season MVP's.

[The Diesel]

I agreed with Nash winning it in 2006, but not 2005.

Shaq should have been MVP in 2005.

[Winsome Gerbil]

Do you think Nash deserved the MVPs he won in 2005 and 2006?

first one = yes, although it was an oddity in that he was not one of the Top 5 talents in the league.

Second one no, not really. And its not because of anything he didn't do so much as a) the big dramatic impact year had been the year before, and b) the numbers/dominance still were not at the level of the "true" MVPs. He just benefitted from a down year for stars. The first one was the star player sneaking one in in his career best impact year. But a 2x MVP indicates something more, some level of all time dominance that just never was there. Steve Nash is not a more dominant player than Hakeem or Barkley, and he doesn't even rank as highly on the PG lists as Isiah or Stockton or Oscar and yet there he sits with 2 MVPs. It was an aberration. Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy, but still an aberration.

[ITK9]

100% yes.

[Quincy]

No. Shaq in 2005 and Kobe in 2006.

My thoughts. Shaq literally transformed Miami into a contender and likely could have won if Wade had not got hurt by Detroit. Kobe seemed to be the general consensus "best player in the league" in most eyes during that season.

But that's not to take anything away from Nash. He is a great player. It's just awkward that a player of Kobe's level has less MVP's than a player of Nash' level.

[bastillon]

No. Shaq in 2005 and Kobe in 2006.

My thoughts. Shaq literally transformed Miami into a contender and likely could have won if Wade had not got hurt by Detroit. Kobe seemed to be the general consensus "best player in the league" in most eyes during that season.

But that's not to take anything away from Nash. He is a great player. It's just awkward that a player of Kobe's level has less MVP's than a player of Nash' level.

are you at least reading the thread ? Shaq's candidacy has already been argued against. Wade was Miami's top player and he SEVERELY outperformed and outproduced O'Neal in the playoffs.

also if you want to bring up playoffs as an indicator, Shaq ain't got nothing on Nash this year as Nash was pounding Mavs with a 30/12/6 series and then again dominating the Spurs offensively. on an individual level Nash was a much better playoff performer that year.

Miami also didn't improve all that much from 04 to 05. they were 6-game ECSF team in 04 and 7-game ECF team in 05. 04 Heat would also easily run through Nets and Wizzards. 04 had a better competition, that Pacers team, still healthy in the ECSF, was a top-notch contender in 04 and at the very least as good as Pistons 05.

east had only 1 respectable playoff team outside of Miami. it wasn't really hard to get to the ECFs.

[Silverballer]

'05 could've gone to either Shaq or Nash, and I'd be fine with it.

'06 you can make an argument for Kobe, Lebron, Dirk, Wade, Brand over Nash

'07 was actually the year he most deserved it, I think. Had his best statistical and team success that year.

[easiestplayfts]

(James White was a prospect a couple years back who was projected to go in the top 5. From a classic agility/hops/size combo, he's an order of magnitude more impressive than Jordan. Dude only stayed for a cup of coffee in the NBA because having that kind of athleticism really isn't as big of a deal as people think it is.)

(Re: "Nash is the only...", Nash is quite possibly the only NBA player in history who was a star at soccer, hockey, lacrosse, and rugby. He's probably one of few people in the world who as we speak could make a living at the two most popular sports in the world. And completely unrelated to that, he's arguably the greatest shooter whoever lived. He has talent that is athletic in nature that is incredibly rare.)

Let me prefix I like Nash (but for no-basketball reasons).
...but has Nash EVER won a championship in any of these sports?

I don't really understand why you're asking that. You mentioned Nash not dunking, and I responded by talking about athleticism. That doesn't mean you can't use his lack of championship against him generally, but it's pretty lame to throw that component back at me when I thought it was pretty clear what I was addressing.

Also, you may have just done an accidental word substitution there (happens to me all the time), but the proper word there is "preface", not "prefix".

I probably should have used green font when I made the statement regarding dunking because I would not base my opinion of any player's abilities on whether or not they can dunk. I do remember Nash winning the skills challenge in 2005 and 2010.

[jaypo]

Good post about the numbers Nash put up against Dallas. But do you account for the points that he allows to be scored? I have a very hard time giving an MVP trophy to a player that only plays 1 end of the court. And you say that Shaq had DWade so he didn't deserve it? Well, Nash had some guy by the name of Amare to feed the ball to. And a guy named Marion covering his matador defense.

Plain and simple- the Heat went from a 500 ballclub to the ECF and would have made it to the finals if Wade's rib didnt' get hurt in the ECF when they were up 3-2. And Shaq's production was arguably better than Wade's in 05 based on numbers and efficiency. You say Wade jumped from 16 ppg to 24? No coincidence that when a dominant big man gets paired with him, his production goes up. And the team becomes a title contender. The next year, they won the friggin title! Sure, Wade was great and he blossomed. But Shaq put up good numbers and powered them, literally thru Detroit. They don't sniff the finals without Shaq.

So you can look at "well, Nash got that team to 62 wins", or whatever you would like to say. I look at the fact that in 05 and 06, barring 1 freak injury to Wade in the ECF, Shaq being added to that team took them from a 500 ballclub (more or less) to a championship, and probably 2.

[ksabo32]

He deserved 3 MVPS!

[Rapcity_11]

Good post about the numbers Nash put up against Dallas. But do you account for the points that he allows to be scored? I have a very hard time giving an MVP trophy to a player that only plays 1 end of the court. And you say that Shaq had DWade so he didn't deserve it? Well, Nash had some guy by the name of Amare to feed the ball to. And a guy named Marion covering his matador defense.

Plain and simple- the Heat went from a 500 ballclub to the ECF and would have made it to the finals if Wade's rib didnt' get hurt in the ECF when they were up 3-2. And Shaq's production was arguably better than Wade's in 05 based on numbers and efficiency. You say Wade jumped from 16 ppg to 24? No coincidence that when a dominant big man gets paired with him, his production goes up. And the team becomes a title contender. The next year, they won the friggin title! Sure, Wade was great and he blossomed. But Shaq put up good numbers and powered them, literally thru Detroit. They don't sniff the finals without Shaq.

So you can look at "well, Nash got that team to 62 wins", or whatever you would like to say. I look at the fact that in 05 and 06, barring 1 freak injury to Wade in the ECF, Shaq being added to that team took them from a 500 ballclub (more or less) to a championship, and probably 2.

You pretty much summed it up that Shaq was a great addition but Wade was equally or more valuable. Not sure how this is an argument for Shaq.

[semi-sentient]

I think Shaq probably deserved it over Nash in 2005. Wade was "the man" on that team, but Shaq came in and made a pretty big impact (17-game turnaround). Nash was awesome as well, but the Suns had a lot of weapons that year (Amare, Marion, Johnson, Richardson, Barbosa...).

In 2006 I thought Nash pretty clearly deserved it. He stepped up his scoring and was 2nd behind Marion, and there was no Amare, Johnson, or Richardson there. Despite all of that, the Suns only fell by 8 games from their 2005 total, so you have to give credit where credit is due. Nash kept that team playing well.