ESPN Draft Grade (Mel Kiper Jr.)

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Draft yields quantity, and plenty of quality, for Chiefs



NEW YORK -- Two days, seven rounds and 252 picks are in the books for the 2008 NFL draft. Michigan's Jake Long started things off -- days before the draft -- and Idaho linebacker David Vobora ended the draft as this year's Mr. Irrelevant.

But football is the ultimate team sport, and it starts every year with the draft. While some teams have a lot to be excited about based on what they accomplished in this year's draft, other teams still have a lot of work to do before the 2008 season starts.

AFC East
Buffalo Bills: GRADE: C+
Cornerback Leodis McKelvin is going to be a very good player and I liked the pick. James Hardy is the big wide receiver the Bills need, someone who can be a threat in the red zone. Virginia Tech DE Chris Ellis is a decent pass-rusher, and I thought CB Reggie Corner and TE Derek Fine were reaches in the fourth round. I did like their late-round picks, RB Xavier Omon, OT Demetrius Bell and WR Steve Johnson.

Miami Dolphins: GRADE: B-
Jake Long fills a need at left tackle, and I liked Bill Parcells' selection of Clemson DE Phillip Merling with the 32nd overall pick because he's solid against the run. The pick of Chad Henne in the second round tells you Miami is not sold on John Beck; however, I'm not sold on Henne. He has accuracy issues and a long delivery and he isn't mobile. I do like his toughness and he does have some of those intangibles you look for in a quarterback. Defensive end Kendall Langford is a big body, but I thought he was somewhat of a reach after an average senior season. Shawn Murphy really came on as a guard and he could battle for a starting spot. Jalen Parmele was a workhorse at Toledo, a big running back who also has some speed. And Lionel Dotson was a good seventh-round pick who should be able to help at nose tackle.

New England Patriots: GRADE: C+
I'm a big fan of linebacker Jerod Mayo, a lights-out hitter who reminds me of a young Junior Seau. Cornerback was a position of need with the loss of Asante Samuel in free agency. But taking Colorado CB Terrence Wheatley -- when CB Charles Godfrey was on the board -- was a reach. (I projected Wheatley to go somewhere in the fourth round.) Michigan's Shawn Crable fits their 3-4 scheme as an OLB. Quarterback Kevin O'Connell is intriguing, but he was taken a bit high in the third round. Matt Slater's future is going to be as a kick returner/special teams player. Cornerback Jonathan Wilhite leveled off during his career at Auburn, and Bo Ruud will be a backup linebacker.

New York Jets: GRADE: B-
Lining up opposite Calvin Pace, OLB Vernon Gholston has a chance to get a lot of sacks in his rookie season. Tight end Dustin Keller can be used in a lot of different ways and will give the passing game some much-needed juice. Dwight Lowery had a great junior season at corner for San Jose state, but his grade tailed off as a senior. Erik Ainge does not have that wow factor you like to see in a quarterback, but he has great pocket awareness. And he has the ability to make throws when he's outside the pocket. Ainge has a little bit of that "it" factor. Kansas wide receiver Marcus Henry does not have a lot of speed and doesn't separate well, but he caught the ball very effectively. I liked the Jets' picks, but I thought they would have taken wide receiver a bit earlier in the draft.


AFC North
Baltimore Ravens: GRADE: B
The Ravens wanted Matt Ryan, but Joe Flacco was the next-best quarterback in this draft. The Ravens made a great deal with the Jacksonville Jaguars that got them three additional picks. They also traded down and still were able to get running back Ray Rice in the second round. The Ravens need to start bringing in young linebackers and Miami's Tavares Gooden had a very good 2007 season. Tom Zbikowski is a good third-round choice, but only if his play resembles what he did in 2006 as opposed to 2007. Oniel Cousins is a versatile offensive lineman and WR Marcus Smith will help on special teams in kick coverage and as a returner. Safety Haruki Nakamura and RB Allen Patrick might have to make this roster by performing on special teams.

Cincinnati Bengals: GRADE: C+
Keith Rivers is solid player with great character. Jerome Simpson is a hard-working receiver and WR Andre Caldwell could be a second or third option right away. While junior DT Pat Sims was a very underrated player out of Auburn, OT Anthony Collins should have stayed at Kansas for another year. Still, he was decent fourth-round pick. Safety Corey Lynch is a playmaker (he blocked the field-goal attempt in the closing seconds of Appalachian State's upset win at Michigan last season). Some scouts I spoke with thought Lynch -- who went in Round 6 -- could go as high as the fourth round. Villanova TE Matt Sherry is not a very good blocker, but he has very good hands and could push for a roster spot. Wide receiver Mario Urrutia didn't have a great 2007 season and I'm not sure why he came out. Urrutia has talent, but should have gone back to Louisville for his senior season. Angelo Craig flashed pass-rushing abilities at times; at other times he disappeared.

Cleveland Browns: GRADE: B+
The Browns didn't have a pick until the fourth round and grabbed UNLV linebacker Beau Bell and Missouri tight end Martin Rucker, who could be a factor in the passing game. Ahtyba Rubin is more of a nose tackle in a 3-4 defense. Wide receiver Paul Hubbard is big and athletic, but he's inconsistent catching. Alex Hall will be an OLB in the Browns' scheme. Cleveland only had five picks; however, they traded this year's first-round pick to take QB Brady Quinn last year and traded second- and third-round picks for Corey Williams and Shaun Rogers. When you factor those transactions, the Browns are using the draft process the right way.

Pittsburgh Steelers: GRADE: B
Running back wasn't a need area in the first round, but when Rashard Mendenhall was still on the board at No. 23, he became a luxury pick. Mendenhall was a very good pick, so too was Limas Sweed, who fell to the 53rd overall pick. Dennis Dixon was a one-year wonder at Oregon before he suffered a season-ending knee injury. He showed skills in 2007; still, Dixon is a good fifth-round pick as someone you can develop. Bruce Davis fits the Steelers' scheme as an OLB (he had 24.5 sacks the past two seasons). Tony Hills is a solid backup at OT who has the ability to push for a starting role if he can work on his aggressiveness. Mike Humpal could be a good backup LB and help out on special teams; and safety Ryan Mundy will be a decent special teams player.

AFC South
Houston Texans: GRADE: C
Some thought Duane Brown was a reach in the first round, but I thought he was one of the five or six best offensive tackles in the draft because of his athleticism. Brown is a very good offensive lineman, and that's what the Texans need. Antwaun Molden is a good developmental cornerback; RB Steve Slaton will be a good change-of-pace back; OLB Xavier Adibi is fast and athletic, but is not instinctive, and a bit overrated; and Frank Okam is a big body who wasn't consistent enough to be a high pick. Safety Dominique Barber is a decent sixth-round pick and could help out in the secondary.

Indianapolis Colts: GRADE: B
The Colts drafted three of my top six centers. Mike Pollak has outstanding mobility and will likely be moved to guard, while Steven Justice and Jamey Richard are quality linemen. Philip Wheeler will help out at ILB. For this offense, fourth-round pick Jacob Tamme at tight end should be a nice fit. The Colts drafted Mike Hart in the sixth round, and he'll have a great opportunity to be the backup to Joseph Addai. Hart lasted till the sixth round because of a 4.7 time in the 40. Mount Union WR Pierre Garcon is a nice player who some scouts thought could make a team.

Jacksonville Jaguars: GRADE: C-
Not only was defensive end Derrick Harvey a big reach at No. 8 (after trading up with Baltimore), but the Jags gave up three picks in order to draft the Florida defensive end. Quentin Groves will be a good defensive end if he plays like he did as a junior. I do like CB Trae Williams, who could be a factor right away. I thought the Jaguars should have traded for Jason Taylor, a proven pass-rusher who would have been the missing link along the defensive line.

Tennessee Titans: GRADE: C
Running back Chris Johnson is a good player, but I wasn't expecting him to go to Tennessee, especially because the Titans need a wide receiver. (They should have looked at WR Devin Thomas in the first round.) They did get WR Lavelle Hawkins in the fourth round and Vince Young will like the former California wide receiver. Jason Jones can play DE or DT. I don't have a problem with the player they drafted on Day 1, but the philosophy is skewed. It was the third straight year Tennessee drafted a running back in the first two rounds. Craig Stevens is a good blocking tight end. William Hayes has good closing speed for a defensive end, but was a reach in the fourth round. Stanford Keglar was a good fourth-round pick with some ability, and seventh-rounder Cary Williams could make this team as a developmental cornerback.

AFC West
Denver Broncos: GRADE: C+
Ryan Clady is the left tackle the Broncos needed to help Jay Cutler, and Clady should start right away. Eddie Royal is a decent slot receiver who has some return skills, Kory Lichtensteiger was one of the top centers in the draft and Arizona State's Ryan Torain is an interesting pick at running back because he has the potential to prosper in Denver. Torain's ASU teammate, safety Joshua Barrett, has great physical abilities, but does not always play up to his potential. I want to see how they use FB Peyton Hillis because he has great hands out of the backfield, and would be an ideal H-back if he were a couple of inches taller.

Kansas City Chiefs: GRADE: A
The rebuilding process is on. The Chiefs started the draft with 13 picks, and they made them count. After getting defensive tackle Glenn Dorsey -- the No. 1 player on my Big Board -- with the fifth overall pick, the Chiefs grabbed tackle Branden Albert, although he will be a work in progress. Virginia Tech cornerback Brandon Flowers would have been a mid-first-round pick if he had run better 40 times at the NFL combine. On Day 2, RB Jamaal Charles and Tennessee TE Brad Cottam -- who has untapped ability -- will be nice complements on offense. Cottam could be a diamond in the rough. DaJuan Morgan is a solid safety, Brandon Carr is another corner who might be a sleeper and Kevin Robinson can make his mark in the return game. Barry Richardson never materialized into a great offensive lineman at Clemson, but he could start right away with the holes Kansas City has on its offensive line. Defensive end Brian Johnston has long-range potential.

Oakland Raiders: GRADE B-
We all know what Darren McFadden can do. I really liked Oakland's second-round pick, Connecticut CB Tyvon Branch. He can help out in the return game, and also has great catch-up speed. Wide receiver Arman Shields hurt his knee early in the season and fell off the radar, but he's a developmental receiver.

San Diego Chargers: GRADE: C+
Antoine Cason played a lot of football at Arizona, which at times works against a player in terms of being overevaluated. Cason doesn't have great recovery speed, but he has good technique in coverage and good ball skills. Jacob Hester could make up for the loss of Michael Turner. Hester was a fullback at LSU, but isn't a prototypical lead-blocking fullback. UTEP RB Marcus Thomas has some ability and was a good fifth-round pick; CB DeJuan Tribble did not have great workouts, but he flashed second-round potential early in the season. One thing I didn't like about the Chargers' draft is they didn't really address their need at right tackle.

NFC East
Dallas Cowboys: GRADE: B+
Felix Jones will join Marion Barber in the Cowboys' backfield and will also return kicks. Cornerback Mike Jenkins has really good ball skills and should be a major contributor this season in the secondary. Tight end Martellus Bennett has talent and should be able to help out in the passing game. Running back Tashard Choice had a knee injury in 2007; otherwise he would have gone a little higher in the draft. He can run between tackles, but isn't going to run away from anyone in space. I projected Boise State cornerback Orlando Scandrick to go late in the second round, and I was surprised to see him last until the fifth round. However, the Cowboys didn't draft a wide receiver, which I thought was one of their top three need areas.

New York Giants: GRADE: C+
I understand taking safety Kenny Phillips with the last pick in the first round. He had a great sophomore season in 2006. Terrell Thomas could be a No. 2 cornerback, but I thought that pick was just OK. Wide receiver Mario Manningham is worth a role of the dice in the third round because he has talent, but his stock dropped in the months leading up to the draft, with some teams viewing him as a late-round pick. Jonathan Goff was a good find in the fifth round, and the same can be said about Andre' Woodson in Round 6. Defensive end Robert Henderson is just a marginal prospect.

Philadelphia Eagles: GRADE: C+
Trevor Laws had a very good 2007, and was arguably Notre Dame's best player. I like where the Eagles got DeSean Jackson because he's an exciting player (when healthy) who will help out in the return game. Bryan Smith is a combination DE/OLB, and Michael McGlynn had a nice season at right tackle opposite Jeff Otah. Cornerback Jack Ikegwuonu is a pick for the future; after declaring for the draft, he suffered a knee injury in January and isn't expected to play in 2008. Andrew Studebaker out of Wheaton has the potential to be a situational pass-rusher.



Washington Redskins: GRADE: B+
They traded out of the first round and still were able to get three offensive weapons in the second round: wide receivers Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly and tight end Fred Davis. Chad Rinehart is a versatile offensive lineman who can play guard or tackle. In the sixth round, Georgia Tech's Durant Brooks was the first -- and only -- punter drafted. He has a strong leg and should compete for the starting job (30 of his 65 punts were 50 yards or longer). Hawaii QB Colt Brennan went in the sixth round. He isn't very big, but he has some ability. What hurt Brennan was his performance in the Sugar Bowl and the Senior Bowl practices, and the system he played in, which allowed him to put up big numbers. Safety Christopher Horton will be a good backup and special teams player. The only thing the Redskins didn't get was a pass-rushing defensive end.

NFC North
Chicago Bears: GRADE: B
Chris Williams is the left tackle the Bears need from a pass-protection standpoint, and he'll start as a rookie. Matt Forte is a hard-nosed running back. He's not flashy, but he's elusive. I like what the Bears did on Day 2, starting with Vanderbilt WR Earl Bennett, who reminds me of Hines Ward. Arkansas DT Marcus Harrison lasted until the third round because of some off-field concerns, and Nebraska's Zack Bowman is a big corner who was once projected as a first-round pick, before he suffered injuries to both knees. LSU safety Craig Steltz -- who reminds me of former Bear Doug Plank -- will be a solid special teams player and could push for a starting job. With his height, Arkansas WR Marcus Monk could be a red zone threat and he qualifies as a very good seventh-round pick. He looked like a second-rounder after his junior year, and ran a 4.42 in the 40-yard dash, which is excellent for a 6-foot-4, 220-pound receiver. Tight end Kellen Davis has tremendous athletic ability but he needs to be more consistent.

Detroit Lions: GRADE: C+
Gosder Cherilus is a right tackle who is an effective run-blocker, which is why the Lions drafted him in the first round. But third-round pick Kevin Smith is the key player in the Lions' draft class. Smith proved at Central Florida he could carry the load, and in my opinion, he'll be the Lions' starting running back in Week 1. Jordon Dizon is undersized for a middle linebacker, but he has a chance to be productive in Detroit's scheme, because he has the ability to cover the deep middle. Fullback Jerome Felton is more effective as a runner than a blocker, but he's a good value pick in the fifth round. Army safety Caleb Campbell went in the seventh round and is big at 229 pounds. Campbell could be an OLB if he puts on 10 to 15 pounds. Cliff Avril could be a decent pass-rusher, although he had only six sacks in 2007. DT Andre Fluellen flashed big-time ability early in his career at Florida State but never lived up to it.

Green Bay Packers: GRADE: B-
The Packers took a QB on both days of the draft: Brian Brohm in the second round and Matt Flynn in the seventh. Brohm is cerebral and accurate, but can he stay healthy? Flynn is big, has good arm strength and can run for a first down if he has to. Flynn has intangibles, something you must have to lead a team to a national title. Second-round pick Jordy Nelson is a great athlete, and will be a faster version of former San Francisco 49ers wide receiver Dwight Clark. Patrick Lee is a very good cover corner and a solid second-round pick. Tight end Jermichael Finley has a ton of talent, he just has to make strides in terms of catching the ball and blocking. Defensive end Jeremy Thompson has a similar attitude and motor to current Packer Aaron Kampman.

Minnesota Vikings: GRADE: B
They had only one pick in the first four rounds. I had safety Tyrell Johnson going in the first round, so to get him in Round 2 (43rd overall) is a great pick because Johnson has big-time skills. In the fifth round the Vikings took John David Booty, an accurate quarterback who is great at throwing on the move and sees the field extremely well. Letroy Guion is more of a developmental defensive tackle, and center John Sullivan was average in 2007, but at times looked very good in his career. Factor in the addition of DE Jared Allen, and this was a good draft for the Vikings.

NFC South
Atlanta Falcons: GRADE: B
I thought they would take DT Glenn Dorsey, but the Falcons needed a face for the franchise, and had to take QB Matt Ryan. He should be a great starting point; a new era of Falcons football begins. USC OT Sam Baker wasn't healthy in 2007, he struggled in Senior Bowl practices and he has short arms for a left tackle. I like Baker, but I thought it was a bit of a reach moving up to get him. Linebacker Curtis Lofton is a decent second-round pick, but I really like what Atlanta did in the third round, taking WR Harry Douglas, CB Chevis Jackson and safety Thomas DeCoud. Kroy Biermann is a good pass-rusher. Wilrey Fontenot played opposite Antoine Cason at Arizona, although he'll be more of a dime back. RB Thomas Brown is not real big, and he's going to be battling Michael Turner and Jerious Norwood for playing time in the backfield.

Carolina Panthers: GRADE: B
The future is now in Carolina, which gave up its first-round pick in 2009 to trade back into this year's first round and draft offensive tackle Jeff Otah. Jonathan Stewart is a workhorse running back and Dan Connor is a real nice pick in the third round. I like the Panthers' picks on Day 2, highlighted by Iowa CB Charles Godfrey, who I thought was the best player on the board heading into Day 2. Tight end Gary Barnidge, who they picked in the fifth round, catches everything thrown his way, although he is not much of a blocker. Hilee Taylor has a very good motor at OLB, Geoff Schwartz is an overachieving OL and G Mackenzy Bernadeau out of Bentley has a good chance to make the team. I didn't like seeing them give up a future first-round pick, and Stewart does have some durability concerns, but this was a good draft for the Panthers.

New Orleans Saints: GRADE: C+
I'm high on DT Sedrick Ellis -- there wasn't much of a difference between him and Dorsey. Cornerback Tracy Porter has to show toughness in run support and also be able to match up against physical wide receivers. Porter should also be able to help out as a punt returner. DeMario Pressley is a classic underachiever. He looked good at the start of his college career but never became a dominant player. OT Carl Nicks has some ability and talent, but he just needs to maximize it. I didn't like taking PK Taylor Mehlhaff over Brandon Coutu, but I did like getting WR Adrian Arrington in the seventh round. I thought he could go as high as the fourth round.

Tampa Bay Buccaneers: GRADE: B
Aqib Talib fits this system and is the perfect Cover 2 cornerback. He has great ball skills, but not the recovery speed. Wide receiver Dexter Jackson has great speed, but are his hands going to be good enough? Jackson was the only WR the Buccaneers drafted, and that was a need area for them heading into the draft. Third-round pick Jeremy Zuttah from Rutgers gives this offensive line some versatility. What I want to see is DT Dre Moore put it all together every week. He showed glimpses of that at Maryland, but if the Bucs can motivate Moore, then they could have found a gem in the fourth round. QB Josh Johnson is a great athlete and Jon Gruden likes him, but Johnson will be a project quarterback for the future. Linebacker Geno Hayes probably isn't the next Derrick Brooks at linebacker, but he's very instinctive and is a good form tackler. He could be a nice fit at weakside linebacker in Tampa Bay's scheme.

NFC West
Arizona Cardinals: GRADE: B-
I like CB Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, but I thought Arizona would take a running back (Ray Rice?) in the second round. Instead, Arizona drafted DE Calais Campbell. If Campbell reverts back to his 2006 form, this will turn out to be a good pick. LSU WR Early Doucet will be a slot receiver and was a good third-round pick. I like RB Timothy Hightower, although he doesn't have a lot of speed. I like their sixth- and seventh-round picks (Christopher Harrington and Brandon Keith), but the Cardinals didn't get a quality running back to complement Edgerrin James, unless Hightower is able to play the part.

St. Louis Rams: GRADE: C+
Taking DE Chris Long allows Adam Carriker to stay inside at defensive tackle. Some didn't think Donnie Avery should have been the first WR to come off the board. It might have been a bit of a reach, but he caught 91 balls and has the ability to make people miss. John Greco is a versatile offensive lineman. CB Justin King has a lot of potential, but he gets beat in coverage far too much. Wide receiver Keenan Burton would have gone higher than the fourth round if he hadn't been slowed by knee and ankle injuries in his senior season. Roy Schuening has a chance to start this year at guard. Chris Chamberlain had a very nice season at Tulsa. And don't forget about OLB David Vobora, aka Mr. Irrelevant, who I thought was a midround pick. Vobora has some ability and I would be surprised if he didn't make this team as a special teams player.

San Francisco 49ers: GRADE: C+
They didn't address their need at wide receiver until the sixth round and didn't take an OLB until the seventh round. Kentwan Balmer is a solid DT prospect for their scheme, and I like Chilo Rachal's aggressiveness at guard (he can also play right tackle). Reggie Smith is kind of a tweener at safety or corner. He has ability, but needs to settle on a position. Cody Wallace was the No. 1 center on my board. Josh Morgan is a decent receiver. OLB Larry Grant can make this team as backup.

Seattle Seahawks: GRADE: B
Lawrence Jackson stepped up his performance and deserved being a first-round pick. I would have looked at Dustin Keller, although John Carlson is a more complete tight end. Texas A&M's Red Bryant is a stay-at-home defensive tackle. He was productive in 2007, but he never took his game to the next level coming out of high school. Owen Schmitt is a throwback old-school fullback. Tyler Schmitt is a good long snapper. Justin Forsett has the chance to make this team at running back. Georgia's Brandon Coutu -- whom I thought was the best kicker in this draft -- could be this year's Mason Crosby.

[Howling Mad]

Did anyone catch the poll ESPN kept flashing throughout the draft?

Which NFL north team had the best draft?

The Packers were winning with like 70% of the vote, with the other teams equally sharing the rest, 11% here, 10.3% there, etc.


I bursted out laughing when I saw it.

Well, Mel gave us a B, which is good. Pretty much the consensus on this board. Of course we're the fans and we're more critical of our team, and Mel probably knows a little more than all of us put together.

[Cliff Levingston]

Thanks Mel. ...and nice hair.

[LUKE23]

Did anyone catch the poll ESPN kept flashing throughout the draft?

Which NFL north team had the best draft?

The Packers were winning with like 70% of the vote, with the other teams equally sharing the rest, 11% here, 10.3% there, etc.


I bursted out laughing when I saw it.

Well, Mel gave us a B, which is good. Pretty much the consensus on this board. Of course we're the fans and we're more critical of our team, and Mel probably knows a little more than all of us put together.

Why exactly? They definitely could be argued as the best draft in the division.

[Howling Mad]

-= original quote snipped =-



Why exactly? They definitely could be argued as the best draft in the division.

I'm not saying its a bad draft for the Pack, but did they really pick up a player that puts them head and shoulders above any of the other NFC north teams?

I don't think so?

Unless Pack fans are so delusional because Favre is gone they are actually expecting a messiah in Brohm.

He might turn out to be a great QB, heck, maybe a HOF, but can you really predict that at this point?

[LUKE23]

First of all, don't get where you're going with the Brohm tangent, no Packer fans have said any of that, they are just extremely happy that we were able to land him in the late second. The Packers draft was extremely good because they got Brohm about 40 picks after where he was predicted to go, and they are not relying on him to be a starter while also being able to pay him second round money. Nelson will be their #4 or possibly even #3 WR this year, watch the clips on this kid, he can really, really play (destroyed Talib who everyone was all over before the draft).

The Packers don't really have many positions up for draft picks to contend at starting positions. But that is because Thompson has done a great job of building the depth of the team.

And lastly, the Packers didn't really have to pick up someone to put them "head and shoulders above other NFC North teams". Other NFC North teams have to find guys that will help them catch the Packers. Overall, I'd rank the drafts between the division teams pretty comparable, outside of the Lions draft which as usual was horrendous.

[Howling Mad]

I don't see you point, and I didn't know you were a Pack fan, otherwise I would've used a less nerve hitting example. Sorry, seriously.

We got 2-3 guys that were projected in the first round at some point, but fell because of injuries, that doesn't give us a successful draft.

Honestly, we won't know how successful this draft is until most of these guys are out of the league.

At least you agree, no team rose above the rest in the NFC north. So my laughable reaction to the poll is legit. I don't know what else to say.

[LUKE23]

I don't see you point, and I didn't know you were a Pack fan, otherwise I would've used a less nerve hitting example. Sorry, seriously.

We got 2-3 guys that were projected in the first round at some point, but fell because of injuries, that doesn't give us a successful draft.

Honestly, we won't know how successful this draft is until most of these guys are out of the league.

At least you agree, no team rose above the rest in the NFC north. So my laughable reaction to the poll is legit. I don't know what else to say.

No need to apologize, I just didn't know where you were going with that point. Yeah, it's hard to grade drafts until three years usually. I think the Packers got three guys who will play significant snaps next year (Nelson, Lee, Finley) and ARGUABLY the top steal of the draft in Brohm. Considering how late the Packers were picking, can't ask for much more.

But yeah, I don't see any of the drafts as "wow, that team really had a really sick draft". Personally I think the Bears passing on Brohm in the second was questionable given what Grossman/Orton have shown.

[Ruben Douglas]

First of all, don't get where you're going with the Brohm tangent, no Packer fans have said any of that, they are just extremely happy that we were able to land him in the late second. The Packers draft was extremely good because they got Brohm about 40 picks after where he was predicted to go, and they are not relying on him to be a starter while also being able to pay him second round money. Nelson will be their #4 or possibly even #3 WR this year, watch the clips on this kid, he can really, really play (destroyed Talib who everyone was all over before the draft).

The Packers don't really have many positions up for draft picks to contend at starting positions. But that is because Thompson has done a great job of building the depth of the team.

And lastly, the Packers didn't really have to pick up someone to put them "head and shoulders above other NFC North teams". Other NFC North teams have to find guys that will help them catch the Packers. Overall, I'd rank the drafts between the division teams pretty comparable, outside of the Lions draft which as usual was horrendous.

First off, welcome to the Chicago board Luke.

As far as Nelson goes, he could end up being a really good receiver, you are correct. But to base a decision based on "clips" is not the best way to evaluate talent. Granted, it's really one of the few ways to evaluate talent when sitting at your computer, but everyone looks like a probowler on YouTube.

I still don't like the Bears draft, but the more and more I listen to people evaluate it I'm coming around a little bit. Unlike the Bears, the Packers have the luxury to pick for want. I don't really agree with the Brohm pick but they had the ability to do that. But no matter what anyone says, it's a pick to cover their ass if Rodgers flops. If they want a backup they would've signed a veteran because Brohm isn't going to be Roethlisberger this year.

As far as the poll voting goes, you have to remember that Packer fans will vote their ass off...look at how Jenkins made the all-star game that one year (Brewer/Packer fans are the same). And why would you bother to care about what fans think anyways? Half the players drafted in the 1st two rounds got Fan grades of an F.

Regardless, unless your draft is really bad (like the Bears last year) you can't really tell how good the players will be until 2-3 years down the road so who cares.

[Howling Mad]

just FYI for me, Luke, what did you give the Packers on their draft?

I gave the Bears a B-/C+

I really thought they had a great first day, and started out good with Bennet, but fell off the table with their later picks.

Forte was a little early ( I sound like a robot saying that), but the way Felix Jones went int he first, and Chris Johnson going way early also, Forte was a great pick (after the dust has settled).

[Howling Mad]

Woah, Greeny just asked the question to Mel

"Which team helped themselves out the most in this coming year?"

Mel's answer...

you guessed it, Chicago Bears. He likes all the help Rex got and thinks its what he needs to succeed.

Mel is the expert. I really really really hope he is right.

[Posey H8er]

Woah, Greeny just asked the question to Mel

"Which team helped themselves out the most in this coming year?"

Mel's answer...

you guessed it, Chicago Bears. He likes all the help Rex got and thinks its what he needs to succeed.

Mel is the expert. I really really really hope he is right.

I just saw that as well. Mel also liked our signing of QB Caleb Hanie and picked that as the best FA post-draft pickup.

[MickeyDavis]

I think you guys had a pretty good draft. As was said above we really won't know for a couple of years at least.

I do find it puzzling though that the QB situation still hasn't been addressed. I know that Super Bowls have been won without a superstar QB (Baltimore/Dilfer) but that's pretty rare. I just don't see Grossman/Orton being the guy.

[Howling Mad]

This year is do or die for the two QBs we have. I don't think we could've set them up better to succeed. So, after this year there are no more excuses.

Who are the FA QB's next year anyways? anyone know?

[Posey H8er]

This year is do or die for the two QBs we have. I don't think we could've set them up better to succeed. So, after this year there are no more excuses.

Who are the FA QB's next year anyways? anyone know?

QB Charlie Batch UFA Pittsburgh Steelers
QB Brock Berlin RFA St. Louis Rams
QB Kyle Boller UFA Baltimore Ravens
QB Brooks Bollinger UFA Minnesota Vikings
QB Shane Boyd RFA Houston Texans
QB Matt Cassel UFA New England Patriots
QB Kerry Collins UFA Tennessee Titans
QB Trent Dilfer UFA San Francisco 49ers
QB Bruce Eugene RFA Tampa Bay Buccaneers
QB Charlie Frye UFA Seattle Seahawks
QB Jeff Garcia UFA Tampa Bay Buccaneers
QB David Garrard UFA Jacksonville Jaguars
QB Quinn Gray UFA Houston Texans
QB David Greene UFA Kansas City Chiefs
QB Rex Grossman UFA Chicago Bears
QB Matt Gutierrez ERFA New England Patriots
QB Gibran Hamdan UFA Buffalo Bills
QB Byron Leftwich UFA Atlanta Falcons
QB J.P. Losman UFA Buffalo Bills
QB Luke McCown UFA Tampa Bay Buccaneers
QB J.T. O'Sullivan UFA San Francisco 49ers
QB Drew Olson RFA San Francisco 49ers
QB Kyle Orton UFA Chicago Bears
QB Patrick Ramsey UFA Denver Broncos
QB Chris Simms UFA Tampa Bay Buccaneers
QB Kurt Warner UFA Arizona Cardinals
QB Anthony Wright UFA New York Giants

[LUKE23]

just FYI for me, Luke, what did you give the Packers on their draft?

I gave the Bears a B-/C+

I really thought they had a great first day, and started out good with Bennet, but fell off the table with their later picks.

Forte was a little early ( I sound like a robot saying that), but the way Felix Jones went int he first, and Chris Johnson going way early also, Forte was a great pick (after the dust has settled).

I gave us a straight B. I don't think you can really give A's or F's, but that is just my opinion.

[LUKE23]

-= original quote snipped =-



First off, welcome to the Chicago board Luke.

As far as Nelson goes, he could end up being a really good receiver, you are correct. But to base a decision based on "clips" is not the best way to evaluate talent. Granted, it's really one of the few ways to evaluate talent when sitting at your computer, but everyone looks like a probowler on YouTube.

I still don't like the Bears draft, but the more and more I listen to people evaluate it I'm coming around a little bit. Unlike the Bears, the Packers have the luxury to pick for want. I don't really agree with the Brohm pick but they had the ability to do that. But no matter what anyone says, it's a pick to cover their ass if Rodgers flops. If they want a backup they would've signed a veteran because Brohm isn't going to be Roethlisberger this year.

As far as the poll voting goes, you have to remember that Packer fans will vote their ass off...look at how Jenkins made the all-star game that one year (Brewer/Packer fans are the same). And why would you bother to care about what fans think anyways? Half the players drafted in the 1st two rounds got Fan grades of an F.

Regardless, unless your draft is really bad (like the Bears last year) you can't really tell how good the players will be until 2-3 years down the road so who cares.

Agreed on clips not telling everything but if you have watched the guy play in full games you'll see why so many are high on him. He played extremely well against Big 12 competition all year. And clips, IMO can show you how fast players are compared to other competition, among other things.

[Howling Mad]

Thanks posey.. it would've been easier and faster to type nobody.

...really thanks for the research.

[MickeyDavis]

Quality QB's are rarely free agents. You pretty much have to draft one or trade for someones backup. Sometimes that works and sometimes it doesn't. I would have thought that in the last 3 drafts they would have taken at least one QB and see if they get lucky.

[CBS7]

I think you guys had a pretty good draft. As was said above we really won't know for a couple of years at least.

I do find it puzzling though that the QB situation still hasn't been addressed. I know that Super Bowls have been won without a superstar QB (Baltimore/Dilfer) but that's pretty rare. I just don't see Grossman/Orton being the guy.

Meh, I don't find it all that surprising. Management seemed dead set to give Grossman/Orton one more year at least.

And still, we just couldn't have drafted a QB in round 1 or 2. There were just too many big needs on offense that wouldn't allow any QB really to succeed. By the time we filled those needs I guess there weren't any QBs that Angelo liked enough to draft.