November Leafs discussions

[YogiStewart]

ah yes, November....
cool winds, prospects of snow and the Toronto Maple Leafs unable to buy a goal.

[J Dilla]

I predict this will be a horrible month for our Laughs.

[darth_federer]

First of all, NHL revenues should slightly go up next season if the economy continues to improve. More importantly, a new U.S. television deal should be struck early next year. If the additional television revenue is pumped directly into the salary-cap number, the salary cap is expected to rise by at least $3.5-$4.5 million, since the new television deal should increase by at least $100 million a season. This will help give teams like the Devils some salary-cap solace.

http://espn.go.com/nhl/notebook/_/page/ ... se-staches

Wow. The cap going up 4 million would be great for the Leafs. Dont know if it would go that high though. ESPN is looking to get back into hockey too, so good news all around for the NHL.

Tougher month in November but I still expect them to stay at around .500

I dont expect Grabovski, Versteeg and Kulemin to keep firing blanks. They ll probably come through soon.

[leafsfan89]

Haha oh my lord, this month looks dreadful! In order we are playing:

Sens
Caps
Sabres
Lightning
Panthers
Canucks
Preds
Devils
Habs
Stars
Sabres
Sens
Lightning

All these teams seem to be playing well recently (except Devils who have been absolutely brutal so far). The toughest games are obviously going to be the one against the Caps, the Sabres ones are ALWAYS tough ones and not very easy wins to come by. I feel like we can beat sens both times this month but you can never tell when Kovi can get hot and just light up your team. All in all, i will be a very tough month indeed, im not looking forward to it but a month that can perhaps define this team. If they can even go 7-6 or 8-5 this will be a productive month because 6 of the 13 games are on the road including a back to back on the road near the end of the month. However there will be a nice little 3 game home stand in the middle of this month.

As for todays game against the sens, I feel like the leafs should win this one because after that theyve got the caps and sabres and i dont know if those two are winnable at this point.

[Blade_Runner]

They have to watch tape of their work ethic over the first few games. They have stopped hitting guys.

And there is the matter of Orr getting even.

[bryant08]

lol this is what Burke said about Phaneuf's play (the article is about fans booing him):

On the ice, we're extremely happy with his play. Sure, he could have some more points but we are not scoring as a team right now and Dion's point totals reflect that. The bottom line is that Dion has wrought a considerable culture change with our team and he's done it almost singlehandedly. His leadership has been outstanding in every way. Outstanding. So, yeah, when I hear some of our fans boo him, it bothers me. I think it's disgraceful."

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=339620

[bryant08]

A lot of fight in the third period but it doesn't make up for another garbage performance. As garbage as Phaneuf's been at times, I'd rather not force guys like Komisarek/Beauchemin into bigger roles, so if he's out for an extended period of time we're in trouble.

[ablatt]

Truculence vs. Talent.

The problem is that the Leafs have neither. When Burke came here he made this big deal about making the Leafs more truculent. I don't know if he was camouflaging the fact that the Leafs have very little talent or he still believes in today's NHL you can intimidate another team.

Regardless, the Leafs are very short on pure talent. They have adequate but far-from-stellar goaltending. Either Guiguere or Gustavsson can still let in one or two questionable goals every game.

Their defense is OK.

Phaneuf was a huge mistake. They gave up three skilled players - not great but with decent skills - to get a lumbering mistake-prone defenceman who can't skate. And then surprisingly made him captain, to boot.

They gave up Staalberg to get Versteeg, who isn't any better and can't score to save his life on the Leafs.

The team, other than Kessel, has no NHL-calibre front-line forward talent. The cupboard is bare for Wilson and he nothing to work with.

The problem will be that as the season progresses it will get tougher and tougher to keep morale up and the determination needed to forecheck will evaporate. Unless some magical turnaround happens, the Leafs will finish near the bottom and Boston could get another lottery pick.

Burke has taken a mess and made it worse. It appears he is living in the past, has no talent evaluation skills, and made moves for the sake of making moves.

[YogiStewart]

Truculence vs. Talent.

The problem is that the Leafs have neither. When Burke came here he made this big deal about making the Leafs more truculent. I don't know if he was camouflaging the fact that the Leafs have very little talent or he still believes in today's NHL you can intimidate another team.

Regardless, the Leafs are very short on pure talent. They have adequate but far-from-stellar goaltending. Either Guiguere or Gustavsson can still let in one or two questionable goals every game.

Their defense is OK.

Phaneuf was a huge mistake. They gave up three skilled players - not great but with decent skills - to get a lumbering mistake-prone defenceman who can't skate. And then surprisingly made him captain, to boot.

They gave up Staalberg to get Versteeg, who isn't any better and can't score to save his life on the Leafs.

The team, other than Kessel, has no NHL-calibre front-line forward talent. The cupboard is bare for Wilson and he nothing to work with.

The problem will be that as the season progresses it will get tougher and tougher to keep morale up and the determination needed to forecheck will evaporate. Unless some magical turnaround happens, the Leafs will finish near the bottom and Boston could get another lottery pick.

Burke has taken a mess and made it worse. It appears he is living in the past, has no talent evaluation skills, and made moves for the sake of making moves.

great summary.
People talk about Burke's Cup ring. remember that he inherited alot of talent on that Ducks club. Just like Bowman did in Chicago.

he couldn't win in Vancouver with a talented club.
and he's screwed the pooch while in Toronto.

no matter how good Kessel is/becomes, you are paying him $6 mil/year to be on a non-Cup team. you don't do that. you use your draft picks, manage your cap appropriately and when you're ready to make a run (i.e. you have lots of cheap, talented young players) BOOM! you spend the money.

and this talk of truculence is exactly why hockey bores me. you guys want to watch scoring or grinding? garbage goals or pretty goals?

the only thing i give Burke credit for is aggressively pursuing college FA players. but let's look at his record at that. Hanson is relegated to the 4th line or the minors. Bozak is not performing well. Irwin's in the minors. so far, zero fruit for his labour.

meanwhile, the Leafs' minor league cupboard is still so very bare. you have Kadri and D'amico as your only shining lights (and maybe a D prospect or 3). otherwise, no draft pick next year, some questionable goalie prospects and zero offensive prospects.

2-3 more years of suffering, kids. be realistic.

[darth_federer]

Phaneuf out 4 weeks. Blessing or curse? I think they ll miss him

[Blade_Runner]

Phaneuf out 4 weeks. Blessing or curse? I think they ll miss him

Miss him. The recent spate of injuries shows that the team is not that deep.

[J-Roc]

Blessing with Phaneuf gone. Watch Luke Schenn take over our D.

Just watched a Colton Orr fight in the Caps game. There was a total example of a pointless goon fight in hockey. They "danced" for so long, too, so everyone must have been looking at their watches waiting for the game to start again.

[bryant08]

This one's getting ugly fast. If we lose this one, we're 1-6-1 in our last 8 games.

[darth_federer]

Tie game! They kept fighting and it pays off. I told you guys the goals would eventually come

[darth_federer]

Bozakkk

4-3 Leafs!

[J-Roc]

Shootout!!

[J-Roc]

Wow, that was a SICK final shot by Semin. Wow.

[Crowned]

Truculence vs. Talent.

The problem is that the Leafs have neither. When Burke came here he made this big deal about making the Leafs more truculent. I don't know if he was camouflaging the fact that the Leafs have very little talent or he still believes in today's NHL you can intimidate another team.

Regardless, the Leafs are very short on pure talent. They have adequate but far-from-stellar goaltending. Either Guiguere or Gustavsson can still let in one or two questionable goals every game.

Their defense is OK.

Before tonight, the Leafs had one of the best GA's in the NHL. I suppose our "ok' defense and goaltending attributed to that?

Phaneuf was a huge mistake. They gave up three skilled players - not great but with decent skills - to get a lumbering mistake-prone defenceman who can't skate. And then surprisingly made him captain, to boot.

So you describe Phanuef essentially as a player that has limited abilities, but call Matt Stajan (a glorified 3rd line), Nik Nagman (again, a boarderline 2nd/3rd liner) and Ian White as 'decent'? Ok.

They gave up Staalberg to get Versteeg, who isn't any better and can't score to save his life on the Leafs.

If you truly think that Stalberg and Versteeg are equal, then I'll just stop right there. I'm not going to go any further.

The team, other than Kessel, has no NHL-calibre front-line forward talent. The cupboard is bare for Wilson and he nothing to work with.

The problem will be that as the season progresses it will get tougher and tougher to keep morale up and the determination needed to forecheck will evaporate. Unless some magical turnaround happens, the Leafs will finish near the bottom and Boston could get another lottery pick.

Burke has taken a mess and made it worse. It appears he is living in the past, has no talent evaluation skills, and made moves for the sake of making moves.

Ummm, huh? Has no talent evaluation skills? Please elaborate before making such ridiculous comments.

[Crowned]

great summary.
People talk about Burke's Cup ring. remember that he inherited alot of talent on that Ducks club. Just like Bowman did in Chicago.

What did he inherit? He acquired Beauchemin (who was a key player on that blueline) for Fedorov, traded for Chris Pronger, signed Scott Neidermayer, Teemu Selanne, Travis Moen and Todd Marchant to name a few moves. Yes, Perry and Getzlaf were already there, but he certainly pieced together a nice team while in Anaheim.

(I'll also toss in Bobby Ryan and Jonas Hillier as current moves that he should be given credit for).

the only thing i give Burke credit for is aggressively pursuing college FA players. but let's look at his record at that. Hanson is relegated to the 4th line or the minors. Bozak is not performing well. Irwin's in the minors. so far, zero fruit for his labour.

meanwhile, the Leafs' minor league cupboard is still so very bare. you have Kadri and D'amico as your only shining lights (and maybe a D prospect or 3). otherwise, no draft pick next year, some questionable goalie prospects and zero offensive prospects.

2-3 more years of suffering, kids. be realistic.

His record with college players? Bozak is an NHL calibre player, as is Hanson, and Irwin is proving to be a solid-decent prospect. None of his college acquisitions have played a full NHL season, and you're quick to right them off? Then further criticize his lack of prospects?

The cupboard is bare? Are you familiar with our prospect pool? I've seen prospect sites rank our 'organizational prospect depth' as high as 6th in the entire league.

We have Kadri, Rynnas (23 years old), Caputi (22), Brad Ross, D'amigo, Blacker, McKegg, Reimer, Gunnarsson (24), Bozak (24), Hanson (24), Mueller, Sondre Olden, Kenny Ryan, Daniel Brodin, etc.

Zero offensive prospects? Look up how McKegg is doing in the OHL and let us know. Look up how Kadri did last year in the OHL, and let us know. We may not have some explosive superstar, but we have some nice depth in the system.

[ablatt]

Do you honestly think Phaneuf looks good and was deserving of the captaincy?

If you didn't know he was Phaneuf and just looked at his skating and hitting, what would you see?

The guy was picked strictly based on his past performance and he's not there any longer, for whatever reason. He can't move his feet. He can't skate backwards. He makes mistakes. His shot is nowhere near the net. He's weak at all the things that are supposed to be his strengths. Can't you see that? I wish it was different but that's what I see game in and game out. Some games he makes fewer mistakes and plays a decent defensive game, but he's not dominant in any one area that he should be such as hitting or shooting.

I judge Versteeg based on what I've seen. I don't like his skating style. So far, he can't score. He rarely comes up with the puck along the boards. He's not truculent.

I also now agree with the earlier poster about the Kessel deal. It was plain dumb to trade away two picks with this team, because they weren't going anywehere anyway. They even still had Toskola at the time. Save the money and build a young team through the draft and spend it later if you have a chance to make some playoff noise. That deal will hurt us for years. And as good as Kessel can look, and he does look very good at times, he doesn't make his teammates that much better and can look just as bad for games at a time.

Stajan, Hagman and White are not great players but all of them are as good or better than a lot of the 2nd, 3rd line players we have already. I don't see how you can argue that Bozak is a much better centre today than Stajan.

I believe Burke is an old-style GM, like Fletcher, that doesn't believe in building a team through the draft, and I disagree with that approach.