Nov 5-Bullets at Knicks at the Garden

[Hoopalotta]

This is what Ted wants. A rebuilding roster that will garner a high draft pick. I thought Howard and Arenas would help and now I'm thinking it won't be close to being enough to make the 8th spot.

That about sums up the situation, yes.

[adarsh1]

Instead of Hinrich as the third guard, perhaps it's time to get NY in there...atleast it'll help space the floor...because Hinrich can't make ****.

[Donkey McDonkerton]

On a positive note, Ji started the thread and all of our players are alive and in one piece (although Blatche may be hurt). Now that Arenas is back and Ji's threads are over....we can get this season going!

[montestewart]

I've got new nicknames for Yi, Blatche and Armstrong

Charmin, Kleenex, and Snuggles.

The Three Mushketeers

[AceDegenerate]

It looked to me like Dray couldn't move by the end of the game and his stride was looking kind of weird too. I don't know if he jumped once in the fourth quarter. Poor job challenging shots throughout, though.

I don't know, overall I don't think a healthy Gil and Howard are going to make all that much difference other than keeping games closer longer. Against a genuine competitor, this would have been a complete blowout. I mean, it's rare to see an NBA team looking as sloppy as we did late there. 23 turnovers, but we must have been on pace for 40 in the end with even the most routine utility passes ending in fast breaks going the other way. And the defense was at least as egregious.

A multitude of bad habits on display out there and I don't know if "it's only the 4th game" is a proper excuse.

When was the last time you had anything positive at all to say about this team?

[TGW]

I said this in the chat, but I'm not very hopeful about the Blatche/Mcgee combo. I just think their a bad fit as far as rebounding, toughness, and b-ball IQ go. I don't think they fit together.

This.

One of them has to go. I actually have some hope for Blatche, so I'd trade McGee. Maybe bring in Varejao if possible.

[Hoopalotta]

It looked to me like Dray couldn't move by the end of the game and his stride was looking kind of weird too. I don't know if he jumped once in the fourth quarter. Poor job challenging shots throughout, though.

I don't know, overall I don't think a healthy Gil and Howard are going to make all that much difference other than keeping games closer longer. Against a genuine competitor, this would have been a complete blowout. I mean, it's rare to see an NBA team looking as sloppy as we did late there. 23 turnovers, but we must have been on pace for 40 in the end with even the most routine utility passes ending in fast breaks going the other way. And the defense was at least as egregious.

A multitude of bad habits on display out there and I don't know if "it's only the 4th game" is a proper excuse.

When was the last time you had anything positive at all to say about this team?

Are you effin' around? I'm a veritable sunflower patch.

[fugop]

Goods:

1. The defensive rebounding was ok. Thornton and McGee were working hard on the glass in the first half. There were still a few Knicks possessions that featured three or four shots.

2. Arenas exceeded expectations. There were some problems that appeared to be related to his discomfort with his role, but could have just as easily been rust. He took it to the rim aggressively, and hit a few threes.

3. Blatche looked great when he was fresh.

Bads:

1. The rebounding dropped precipitously when the bigs got tired or had to bring in Yi.

2. Wall looked uncomfortable with the physicality of Felton/Douglas.

3. Blatche can only play one quarter at a high level. He's woefully out of shape.

4. Hinrich can't shoot.

[montestewart]

It looked to me like Dray couldn't move by the end of the game and his stride was looking kind of weird too. I don't know if he jumped once in the fourth quarter. Poor job challenging shots throughout, though.

I don't know, overall I don't think a healthy Gil and Howard are going to make all that much difference other than keeping games closer longer. Against a genuine competitor, this would have been a complete blowout. I mean, it's rare to see an NBA team looking as sloppy as we did late there. 23 turnovers, but we must have been on pace for 40 in the end with even the most routine utility passes ending in fast breaks going the other way. And the defense was at least as egregious.

A multitude of bad habits on display out there and I don't know if "it's only the 4th game" is a proper excuse.

When was the last time you had anything positive at all to say about this team?

What about the nachos and Velveeta comment? That seemed pretty positive.

[cdouglas]

You're going to have to be patient with Blatche. He's wasn't able to work on his conditioning during the summer so this is his workout now. We just have to be patient until we see the Blatch of last season. It would also help if Saunders would run some plays for him. GILBERT was AWESOME!! I'm still not sold on Hinrich. I think he needs to come off the bench BUT that ain't gonna happen. Alot of people are expecting Hinrich to be good at the 3 point range. I think he was good only when he played the Wiz. If he was a good 3 pointer, the Bulls wouldn't have traded him. As a matter of fact, most of the Bull's fans weren't really disappointed to see him go. It figures the Wiz would make him a starter while he was coming off the bench as a Bull. All the talk about when Howard returns, well it wouldn't surprise me the least if Saunders continues to start Hinrich and bring Howard off the bench. I'm sorry he's here because I think the Wiz will keep him here! I'm also disappointed that Young didn't get much PT.

[no D in Hibachi]

It looked to me like Dray couldn't move by the end of the game and his stride was looking kind of weird too. I don't know if he jumped once in the fourth quarter. Poor job challenging shots throughout, though.

I don't know, overall I don't think a healthy Gil and Howard are going to make all that much difference other than keeping games closer longer. Against a genuine competitor, this would have been a complete blowout. I mean, it's rare to see an NBA team looking as sloppy as we did late there. 23 turnovers, but we must have been on pace for 40 in the end with even the most routine utility passes ending in fast breaks going the other way. And the defense was at least as egregious.

A multitude of bad habits on display out there and I don't know if "it's only the 4th game" is a proper excuse.

When was the last time you had anything positive at all to say about this team?

You act as though the teams is a playoff team. They stink, they are second to last in TO's they are the worst rebounding team by a mile and don't play a lick of defense. If it wasn't for a miracle shot by Martin they'd be winless. You could try to paint a positive picture but you'd just be lying.

[pancakes3]

a lone dissenter but i thought our backup big men had little to do with why we lost tonight. In fact, McGee and Armstrong played probably the best i've seen them play ever.

We lost because of that ridiculous zone Flip called (really? a zone against a D'antoni-coached team with McGee as your anchor?), and TURNOVERS. Turnovers is just a nice way of saying JW lost us this game. wall was playing way too fast. in football terms, he outkicked his coverage. too often he went diving into a packed lane with no trailers, no wing guys to catch passes, and really overestimated his ability to convert.

it's easy to blame Yi and Neck but they played 13 and 18 mins respectively, at least 3 of which were garbage mins.

Blatche had a pretty boneheaded play on the up and down, and i put the blame squarely on Arenas. wall was being tyrone-lued and gil did nothing to get open. blatche was expecting gil to come back up but and do his Gil thing but he didn't.

i have crazy Bulls envy right now. They have 3 cornerstone pieces that are just super-duper versions of what we have. Rose-Boozer-Noah are exactly what we're hoping Wall-Blatche-McGee turn out to be. They went through a few seasons of growing pains and they're still not elite. Hopefully Gil and Howard will work out better for us than Gordon-Deng did for them and we become elite in another season or two.

[montestewart]

Sometimes, Hinrich reminds me of a more passive...DS. But only sometimes.

PS: There's plenty of blame to go around on this loss, and I agree with the above about Armstrong, who just isn't that good, but doesn't seem too far from what I would expect from a backup center on a struggling team. He led the team in DRB in just 17 minutes. It's not like he does nothing, and I'm not going to blame the loss on him. People above pretty much covered the criticisms well, and fugop pretty much covered the high notes. Another loss, no real surprises, a lot of work to do. Roger. Over.

[Hoopalotta]

My thing is I just don't think they're good now. That's different than being genuinely pessimistic. I'm optimistic enough in the long term and am not putting too much precedence on this year beyond learning, progress and so on.

[dandridge 10]

1.Our bigs are the biggest bunch of pussy finishers I've ever seen, they are pretty much responsible for every one of the Knicks 11 blocks.

2. Turnovers and rebounding are going to be a major weaknesses all season it seems.

3. Please for the love of god, keep the zone to a minimum. Like some one else pointed out our team is not smart enough or expierenced enought to be able to implement a zone for long stretches.

4. Yi is only good for offense, and he's not even that great at that. He can't rebound, block shots, or defend worth a damn. Dude is so frustrating to watch.

This about sums up my feelings. I have to admit though, as much as I was screaming at Flip to get out of the zone, I don't think it would have mattered. Even when we played man, the Knicks were torching us. In fact, Wall was getting abused in the first half by Felton and Douglas, all the time playing man to man.

I think the biggest problem with this team is the frontcourt. As has been said many times, it is charmin soft, and unfortunately the draft picks we selected to bring "toughness" to the team are nowhere near ready to contribute. Its going to be that way all season.

To me the biggest disappointment has been McGee. I just don't see any improvement from him at all. Yes, he makes some spectacular plays because of sheer athleticism, but most of the time he is running around like a chicken with his head cut off. For everything good he does, he does 5 stupid things to counteract it.

I've never been a fan of Batche but I have not been critical of him so far this season because he is coming back from injury. However, tonight reminded me of the Blatche of the past...shows up in the first half and then disappears in the second.

The only good thing tonight was Gil. He looks like he still has his stroke.

[DCsOwn]

Goods:

1. The defensive rebounding was ok. Thornton and McGee were working hard on the glass in the first half. There were still a few Knicks possessions that featured three or four shots.

2. Arenas exceeded expectations. There were some problems that appeared to be related to his discomfort with his role, but could have just as easily been rust. He took it to the rim aggressively, and hit a few threes.

3. Blatche looked great when he was fresh.

Bads:

1. The rebounding dropped precipitously when the bigs got tired or had to bring in Yi.

2. Wall looked uncomfortable with the physicality of Felton/Douglas.

3. Blatche can only play one quarter at a high level. He's woefully out of shape.

4. Hinrich can't shoot.

Regarding Wall, I think his struggles were due more to a lack of energy than anything. The Knicks' guards weren't especially physical with him, he just played a lazy game (lazy passes, he didn't attack offensively (particularly in the first half), he had that lazy fast break where he committed the offensive foul, and he was lazy defensively as well.) He has the ability to put the opposition back on their heels throughout the game, and he didn't due that tonight. He was easy to contain because his work rate was so low.

We probably have the worst front court in the league at the moment tbh. I'd rather have a bunch of no name, athletically deprived energy guys than the lot that we put out every night. They don't defend, the don't rebound consistently, they don't box out, they don't finish around the rim (with the exception of McGee.) There are going to be so many games this season that we are just going to get killed inside.

Lastly, I thought that Wall and Arenas looked very uncomfortable together. It's one game I know, but the offense was very stagnant when they were on the floor together, and pretty much all of Gil's production came with Wall on the bunch.

[AceDegenerate]

It looked to me like Dray couldn't move by the end of the game and his stride was looking kind of weird too. I don't know if he jumped once in the fourth quarter. Poor job challenging shots throughout, though.

I don't know, overall I don't think a healthy Gil and Howard are going to make all that much difference other than keeping games closer longer. Against a genuine competitor, this would have been a complete blowout. I mean, it's rare to see an NBA team looking as sloppy as we did late there. 23 turnovers, but we must have been on pace for 40 in the end with even the most routine utility passes ending in fast breaks going the other way. And the defense was at least as egregious.

A multitude of bad habits on display out there and I don't know if "it's only the 4th game" is a proper excuse.

When was the last time you had anything positive at all to say about this team?

You act as though the teams is a playoff team. They stink, they are second to last in TO's they are the worst rebounding team by a mile and don't play a lick of defense. If it wasn't for a miracle shot by Martin they'd be winless. You could try to paint a positive picture but you'd just be lying.

I question his pessimism and I act as if the team is a playoff team? Good read fella.

But yes, please everyone don't waste any time to jump up to protect everyone's favorite clown.

[Rafael122]

Gilbert needs to start. They need another ball handler on the court with Wall, because through 4 games, a Hinrich/Wall backcourt is not working. 17 turnovers for Wall in 2 games and that's mostly because the ball is in his hands 95% of the time. That's too much pressure on 1 guy.

[LyricalRico]

Definitely a young team that doesn't know how to play in the 4th quarter yet. But that's what this season is for, so as long as we can see some development (mostly out of Wall) then I don't really care about the losses.

[ErikChowbay023]

Wall, had some turnovers and that is to be expected. He still played very hard. Blatche started out hot, but fatigued. Arenas played well, but still lacks his explosiveness, which I expect to return once the ankle heels.

McGee played ok, but like someone said earlier, if he cannot block a shot, he doesn't defend it at all. Although, he had a few nice defensive possessions in this game, we need him to play tougher on almost every possession considering that Yi, and Armstrong are coming in to back him up..

Ok, why Flip wanted continue with that horrible zone in the 4th quarter against one of the best offensive team in the NBA is unknown.

I was trying to come up with logical explanations as to why he would stay with it, but I could not. Especially considering we have only have two or three players who know how to play team defense. I just don`t get it. We pulled the game close in the 4th when Gilbert got hot, but it went to waste because the Knicks either scored or got second chance points on every possession, due to the fact that we were in that horrible zone.


We need big men, badly. At least some players who will play tougher inside. I really hope Booker gets some minutes in the coming game. His lack of offensive game right now will not outweigh the toughness and rebounding he will provide.

We really need at least two more solid big men. Dampier would have been a nice pickup. Maybe, Oden gets released by Portland and we can snag him... I hope we can sign somebody, we desperately need it.